Who Is The Best

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Guru, Jun 23, 2009.

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Who's the best player since Steffi Graf...

  1. Serena Williams

    26 vote(s)
    27.7%
  2. Justine Henin

    56 vote(s)
    59.6%
  3. Martina Hingis

    6 vote(s)
    6.4%
  4. Other

    6 vote(s)
    6.4%
  1. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    Who's the best female player since Steffi Graf ?
     
    #1
  2. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Serena. Serena > Henin. End of story. Those are the 2 logical choices, w/ Venus @ 3rd.
     
    #2
  3. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Serena Williams. I am not a fan but she is. She takes time off, shows up out of shape, and wins. She is always a favorite no matter what she has been doing prior to the tournament.
     
    #3
  4. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Henin owns Serena.
     
    #4
  5. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    How so? Explain your logic, NF.
     
    #5
  6. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    You think Venus is a better player than Hingis ?

    At her best Henin was much more consistent than Serena
    she spent longer at number one and won 41 titles compared to Serena's 33 titles.

    Hingis won more than both with 43 titles in her career.
     
    #6
  7. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    It's tough to say. Hingis is more accomplished, but Venus's definetly the better player. Just off of the head, 5 Wimbledons is pretty impressive, compared to 1 for Hingis. Venus has 8 (I think) GS titles to Hingis' 5. To me, that's what puts Venus over.

    Hingis is like the Hewitt of the WTA. Probably going to be forgotten b/c of all the greats that came after her, but still a great player during her run. Just got overpowered and injured at the end of her run. I'd put Venus over her.
     
    #7
  8. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Before she retired, she beat Serena in like 3 straight slams (French Open, Wimbledon, and US Open). She had Serena's number. She burned out but it was obvious who the better player was.
     
    #8
  9. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Prime Serena (Serena slam era) owns Prime Henin, IMO. If out of shape Serena still came close to prime Henin, I'd say in shape Serena would have won 7 of 10 meetings.
     
    #9
  10. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Henin owns. She has everything Serena doesn't
     
    #10
  11. egn

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    It is a tough call but I edge Serena over Henin. Sure in Serena's peak she beat Henin and vice versa and their head to head is close. However last time I checked Serena had 10 slams..Henin had 7. Serena has one on every surface..Henin does not. Henin has more titles but Serena has the better winning percentage..Henin has more tour final championships..Serena has more tier 1...Henin has more #1 years..Serena has more top 10 years..

    You can go backand forth I edge Serena on the sole fact that if you put the two I feel at their best I see Serena winning on three surfaces, hard, grass, indoor and Henin only winning on clay. Achievement wise right now they are close but Serena can still change that if she continues to work at it. Henin quit too early but she looked like she was on a down, Serena has been down for a while due to her own bad habits and is still coming through
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
    #11
  12. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    Better player at Wimbeldon maybe but nowhere else
    what has Venus done in the last five years apart from win Wimbeldon ?

    She's starting to look like a grass court specialist.


    three Australian Open titles is impressive, compared to none for Venus.
     
    #12
  13. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Henin was a freaking backboard in her prime. It would be hard for anyone to beat her playing like that. She was even winning on fast surfaces that didn't suit her.
     
    #13
  14. paulorenzo

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    oddly enough, the out of shape serena had more longevity than justine.
    i do however think that serena had what justine lacked, and vice versa.

    serena had the power, the offensive return and the big serve.
    justine had the all court game, shot selection, transition game and footwork/footspeed. i think it's a toss up regardless of slams and career titles won.
    albeit both were/are terrific shotmakers
     
    #14
  15. paulorenzo

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    henin was also med-fast court player.
    albeit she has never won, she has mad a few finals appearances at wimby.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
    #15
  16. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Huh wimbledon?

    Hmm 7-6 h2h and Serena won their last meeting...wasn't Serena also burnt out, out of shape and too busy opening her loud mouth spewing **** to pay attention to tennis...

    oh no right excuses can only be made for Nadal and Fed losses.
     
    #16
  17. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    dude henin has 4 French Open trophies..fail >.>
     
    #17
  18. egn

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    Serena won on the slow surfaces in her prime? She won Rome against Justine Henin of all people and the French Open...
     
    #18
  19. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I think it goes down to one thing. Serena has the career slam. If this is enough to put Federer over Sampras (in some's minds), why is it not enough in this case? Besides the fact, 10 slams to 7?
     
    #19
  20. egn

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    Serena's attitude and bothersome manners will always lead her to be disliked. Even if she is better than Henin and won 5 out of 6 slams she entered in her prime >.> a feat Henin never came close too. All of Henin's losses to Serena's don't count as they were either pre prime or when she was burnt out or they were luck and all of Henin's wins show superior skill.

    If Serena was not such an ass she might get the reputation she deserves but she is an ass so she doesnt fair trade off for bad manners.
     
    #20
  21. vbranis

    vbranis Professional

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    To answer the question directly, Henin was a better player. Henin had all the shots, tremendous variety/versatility, and speed.

    Sure, Serena has more accomplishments, but she is NOT the better player. The numbers can only say so much. Skill-wise, Henin was clearly better.
     
    #21
  22. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Henin owned Serena most of her career and would've surpassed Serena if she stayed dedicated to the sport. Strange that she just disappeared after losing to Safina a couple times.
     
    #22
  23. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    Venus has a winning record against Henin
    but Henin didn't play Venus between 04-06.

    Serena also has a winning record against Henin
    but again those wins came early in Justine's career
    between 03-07 Justine went 5-1 against Serena.

    In 2007 she knocked Serena out of three Grand Slams.

    Justine may not have a Wimbledon title
    but she does have an Olympic gold medal
    and two WTA championships, things that Serena doesn't have.
     
    #23
  24. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    In 2008 she had lost to Safina, Ivanovic I believe, Jankovic and Serena ...she felt off her groove and with her weak mentalness quit.
     
    #24
  25. paulorenzo

    paulorenzo Hall of Fame

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    i agree with the comparison, getting to and winning slams is what separates the two.
    but keep in mind, serena didnt play as much as henin did, as of the last few years, she would lose early in smaller tournaments regularly and show up big in the slams.
    i'm not saying she is the only one that does this, but she certainly is one of the strongest cases.
     
    #25
  26. egn

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    Hold on so 04-06 counts for Serena when she was off and on >.> but 01-02 does not count...and 08 either. So once again if Henin is winning it counts. To say Serena was at her best from 04-07 is absurd...I don't know compare 02-03 to 04-07...lets be real here in each other's respective peaks they were dominating one another.
     
    #26
  27. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Henin has the ''prettier'' game, the more classic one, so people rate her over Serena.

    Let's not forget, Henin's serve was a liability for most of her career. Her forehand was good, but could be attacked. Great backhand and net game.

    Compare that to Serena, big serve, forehand and backhand. Albeit error prone. But when on her game, unbeatable (See: AO final 07)

    A lot of the opinions are impacted by peoples personal opinions on Serena and love for Henin. I don't like Serena's attitude either. But you gotta give credit where credit is due. 10 slams, considering she had knee injuries that may have cut short her prime, is still very impressive, and more impressive to me than Henin.
     
    #27
  28. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    I didn't say that those wins didn't count
    but Serena never beat Henin in her prime
    she also lost when it mattered the most.

    Henin knocked Serena out of four Grand Slams
    where as Serena only got one win against Henin in a Slam.
     
    #28
  29. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    they are 2-4 in slams.
    Serena beat Henin in 2003, 2007 and 2008.

    At Serena's best 2000-2004 she is 5-3 against Henin
    At Henin's best 2003-2007 she is 5-2 against Serena
    and in 2008 when neither were at their best Serena is 1-0.

    Serena took Henin out of 2 slams the 2001 US Open and 2003 Wimbledon
    Henin took her out of 4.

    So really I don't see where you give this amazing edge to Henin as if 2000-2002 is not Henin's prime than 2005-2007 is definitely not Serena's
     
    #29
  30. Brned

    Brned Rookie

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    Henin did not shriek like a pig.
    Henin did not fist pump after every single point won.
    Henin did not said she was the real number 1 (while se was #2) and lost at the first round in her next match (boy that was funny).
    Henin had a beatiful backhand.
    Henin got winners using angles and not just power alone.
    Henin outplayed while others overpowered.
    And the list goes on

    Serena may have a better career but IMHO Henin just played better.
     
    #30
  31. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    Her edge is eight more titles, two WTA championships
    and an Olympic gold medal.

    Henin also spent longer as world number 1
    and during that time she owned Serena between 03-07
    she beat Serena five in a row which included four wins in Grand Slams.

    She also has a win against Serena at Wimbledon
    Serena never beat her at the French Open.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
    #31
  32. hewittboy

    hewittboy Banned

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    Serena's prime only lasted 18 months. She hardly had a prime. Henin's prime lasted 4 or 5 years. I doubt Serena would win over a third too with both in their primes since Henin still wins every clay meeting and that is already a third of the matches if they are evenly distributed, and since Henin would win some on hard courts it would be almost a tie even with both in their primes.

    Anyway it doesnt matter though. Henin gave up any chance to be the best of her generation by quitting when she hadnt yet quite surpassed Serena in slam wins although quickly closing the gap, and having not yet completed the career slam. Thus the only answer is Serena.
     
    #32
  33. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    What's the need for that? Nobody's bringing up personal stuff, no need for that kinda talk in here. There's plenty of bad one could say a/b Henin...but let's leave that stuff for the flame wars, ok?
     
    #33
  34. chrisdaniel

    chrisdaniel Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, you mean the same Serena that also slacks off and still manages to win slams. This goes to Serena in my opinion. 2007 was a good year for Henin. 2003 the wins were all on clay. I give clay to Henin over Serena. The other match in 2003 Serena straight sets over Henin on grass. Not to mention Serena took her out at Wimbledon and the U.S. Open as well. She wins the head to head regardless. has more slams. If you look at the head to head with Henin and Sharapova, they both took each other out twice in slams. The last two Sharapova won, does that mean Sharapova has accomplished the same as Henin or even close. It's crazy these two did not play for 3 years. You also can't just say that she would have surpassed Serena had she dedicated herself. That is like saying Serena could win 20 grand slams had she actually cared enough. Serena wins this in my opinion
     
    #34
  35. hewittboy

    hewittboy Banned

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    Venus should be a poll option before Hingis btw. I rate Venus behind both Serena and Henin, but over Hingis. Hingis was a flash in the pan. If Davenport didnt get so much bad luck in the majors I would rate her over Hingis but unfortunately hard to rate 3 major winner over a 5 major winner.
     
    #35
  36. hewittboy

    hewittboy Banned

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    Venus's head to head with Henin is a huge JOKE with a capital J. All of their matches except one where when Venus was at her absolute peak (which like Serena's was a short one) and before Henin's prime sort of began in spring of 2003 when she won her first slam. If Venus didnt suck too much almost all of 2004-2006 to get far enough to play Henin she would have gotten owned during this period and their head to head quickly evened out if not Henin even passing Venus in it. Not to mention Venus sucks too much on clay to get to play Henin there often where she even got schooled 6-4, 6-1 by a pre prime almost relative nobody Henin at her own 2001 peak.
     
    #36
  37. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Stop staying false facts.

    2003-04-07 Charleston Clay F Henin 6-3 6-4
    2003-05-26 Roland Garros Clay SF Henin 6-2 4-6 7-5
    2003-06-23 Wimbledon Grass SF Williams 6-3 6-2
    2007-03-19 Miami Hardcourt F Williams 0-6 7-5 6-3
    2007-05-28 Roland Garros Clay QF Henin 6-4 6-3
    2007-06-25 Wimbledon Grass QF Henin 6-4 3-6 6-3
    2007-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt QF Henin 7-6(3) 6-1

    There is the true restults of those 5-2 time you talk about. 4 were slams but there was never 5 in a row.

    Here is there complete head to head with dates >..

    2001-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt R16 Williams 7-5 6-0
    2001-10-29 Sanex Championships Indoor Hardcourt QF Williams 6-3 7-6(5)
    2002-05-06 Berlin Clay F Henin 6-2 1-6 7-6(5)
    2002-05-13 Rome Clay F Williams 7-6(6) 6-4
    2002-09-23 Leipzig Indoor Carpet SF Williams 6-4 6-2
    2003-04-07 Charleston Clay F Henin 6-3 6-4
    2003-05-26 Roland Garros Clay SF Henin 6-2 4-6 7-5
    2003-06-23 Wimbledon Grass SF Williams 6-3 6-2
    2007-03-19 Miami Hardcourt F Williams 0-6 7-5 6-3
    2007-05-28 Roland Garros Clay QF Henin 6-4 6-3
    2007-06-25 Wimbledon Grass QF Henin 6-4 3-6 6-3
    2007-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt QF Henin 7-6(3) 6-1
    2008-03-24 Miami Hardcourt QF Williams 6-2 6-0

    Damn sheesh there make real things up don't spread your wrong information.

    Serena has a world championship and more tier 1 titles and hell Serena has a bunch of doubles slams if you want to count the gold as more significance..so really in this argument of yours full of wrong facts..Serena should win as she has the career slam in both singles and doubles..can Henin claim either?

    Sorry but wrong facts get me so angry.
     
    #37
  38. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    How do you say that? 4-5 years? When Sharapova was beating her in slam finals in 2006 and Myskina was winning the French in 2004? I'm sorry, but 2007 was Henin's prime year.
     
    #38
  39. hewittboy

    hewittboy Banned

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    I like this post best.
     
    #39
  40. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    Flash in the pan :-? She made 12 Grand Slam finals and won five
    and she won 43 singles titles as well as two WTA championships.
     
    #40
  41. chrisdaniel

    chrisdaniel Semi-Pro

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    Kinda like hard to rate a 7 time grand slam winner over a 10 time slam winner ???

    I don't know, there are cases in both sides I guess, but I still choose Serena in this poll
     
    #41
  42. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    19-6 Henin? WTF? I could see Henin winning on these boards, but 19 to 6? Come on people.
     
    #42
  43. hewittboy

    hewittboy Banned

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    So if you dont win everything you arent in your prime. That is retarded logic. As has already been noted one of Serena's edges is Henin was never as dominant as Serena the 18 month period of 2002-mid 2003. So she had a fluke loss at the French in 2004, she still won the Australian and Olympics that year, the year in 2003 before that the French and U.S Open, 2006 was in all 4 slam finals and won the WTA Championships, then her 2007 year of course. Sharapova has beaten Serena too in a slam final, even more badly than she did Henin and Maria was only 17 then, your point? Maria isnt at the level of Serena, Henin, or even Venus yet but she has 3 slam titles at only 21. She isnt some chump and has the potential of beating anyone on a given day.

    I would say Henin's prime was spring 2003-end of 2007. So she had a longer prime than Serena IMO. I already said I rated Serena tops over Henin all things considered, and was one of the only 6 to vote for your beloved hero so far so get off your high horse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
    #43
  44. Grass_for_cows

    Grass_for_cows Semi-Pro

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    It wasn't so funny when she cheated on important points and also cheated Mauresmo of a sporting win. Serena may get on some people's nerves, but she has always played fairly and honestly. Henin is by far the more despicable player, and besides Bartoli owns her.
     
    #44
  45. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    hingis was probably more talented than both but such a flake at points she should have 10+slams easily
     
    #45
  46. Guru

    Guru Banned

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    #46
  47. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    If Henin's so great, how'd she lose 3 slam finals in 2006? 2 to Mauresmo and 1 to Sharapova. I'm sorry, but Henin's getting a bit overrated on here. In one of her best seasons, she lost in 3 of the 4 slam finals. In Serena's best season, she won 3 slams and 5 of 6 slams. Serena at her best is better than Henin at her best, no question to me.
     
    #47
  48. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    lmao you are so stupid.

    1 (1) 2003WIMBLEDONGRASSSS.WILLIAMS6-3 6-23 (3)
    1 (1) 2003FRENCH OPENCLAYSJ. HENIN6-2 4-6 7-54 (4)
    1 (1) 2003CHARLESTONCLAYFJ. HENIN6-3 6-44 (2)
    8 (8) 2007FRENCH OPENCLAYQJ. HENIN6-4 6-31 (1)
    9 (8) 2007US OPENHARDQJ. HENIN7-6(3) 6-11 (1)
    8 (7) 2007WIMBLEDONGRASSQJ. HENIN6-4 3-6 6-31 (1)
    18 (13) 2007MIAMIHARDFS.WILLIAMS0-6 7-5 6-31 (

    LOL DO YOU LOOK AT EVENTS.

    So in 2003 wimbledon came after the french open? they just reworked the schedule...

    oh yea miami the spring hardcourt major came after all 3 majors of the year. Once again wimbledon came after the US Open...charelston a lead up clay event is also after the french open.... man I posted the head to head with dates lol..now you have made my day. >.> I am supposed to trust your tennis opinion yet you obviously don't even know how the yearly schedule works.. let me help you

    French
    Wimbledon
    US Open... got that, it's kind of the order the slams have been for oh the past century.

    LOOK AT WHAT YOU JUST CLAIMED. It is obvious the WTA site is screwed up there.. do you read these matches >.> go do some research..look up the dates of those events and than come back and you will realize the most Henin won in a row was 3.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
    #48
  49. hewittboy

    hewittboy Banned

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    So before 2006 wasnt part of Henin's prime and now it is. Make up your mind atleast. You want to deny my comment of Henin having a longer prime by cutting it to only 2007, then turn around and mock her losses in 2006 while calling it one of her best seasons. By the way if you are now stepping back and giving 2006 as being part of Henin's prime than 2003 was also part of it as it was a better year for her than 2006, so in your attempt to demean her you already have to award her a triple longer prime than your initial 1 year minimization. Your sig is a joke btw. You only wish the man in your username had the talent to tie Safin's shoelaces.
     
    #49
  50. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Prime for Henin 02-08
    Prime for Serena 00-present

    Peak for Henin 03, 05-07
    Peak for Serena 02-04

    case end and point. at least imo.
     
    #50

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