Who is the Greatest Wimbledon player of all time?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Prisoner of Birth, Feb 2, 2013.

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Who is the Wimbledon GOAT?

  1. Roger Federer

    55.2%
  2. Pete Sampras

    20.7%
  3. Both have an equally good claim

    13.8%
  4. Can't say one way or the other

    1.7%
  5. Have to wait till Federer retires to be certain

    8.6%
  1. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    It's between Federer and Sampras, that much is indisputable. But who among them is THE Wimbledon GOAT? Let's look at what the statistics say :


    Federer/Sampras

    Number of championships : 7/7
    Number of finals : 8/7
    Number of semifinals : 8/8
    Number of quarterfinals : 11/9
    Number of wins : 66/63 (both have 7 losses)

    Most consecutive championships : 5/4
    Most consecutive finals : 7/4
    Most consecutive semifinals : 7/4
    Most consecutive quarterfinals : 10/9
    Most consecutive wins : 41/31



    Federer leads (or is tied) in every regard, statistically. So who, in your opinion, is the Greatest Wimbledon Player Of All Time among the Gentlemen?
     
    #1
  2. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    William Renshaw, of course. Next topic, please.
     
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  3. Prisoner of Birth

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    :lol: He only won 7 in a relatively minuscule field. Not even close to being in discussions. Try again, please.
     
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  4. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Are you being serious?
     
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  5. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    Federer in terms of stats and all that but one more would cement it.
     
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  6. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Not to mention that when he won the title, he automatically got a freepass to the finals of the following years championships.
     
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  7. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Oh yeah, that too.
     
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  8. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Of course I'm being serious. Everyone knows that winning just one match for the title, as Renshaw did for six of his, is much tougher than winning seven. ;)
     
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  9. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    Sampras was more dominant during his prime than Federer ever was. Prime for prime, I would definitely give it to Sampras.
     
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  10. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Just remember that no professional tennis players could play a single match on Wimbledon's courts until August 1967. There were no dominant Wimbledon champions between Fred Perry and Rod Laver/Bjorn Borg because the best amateur players who won Wimbledon, would turn professional and thus make themselves ineligible for future Wimbledons (as well as the other 3 mainstream majors) until the start of the open era in April 1968. The first time that professional tennis players could play at Wimbledon was at the 1967 Wimbledon Pro tournament, won by Rod Laver.

    With all this in mind, people have really got to stop using today's criteria for past eras.
     
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  11. Prisoner of Birth

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    For one thing, we're talking about who the greater player is, not who was more dominant in their prime. For another, it's untrue that Sampras was more dominant. Sampras was often pushed to 5 sets in his prime while Federer rarely was. And it's Federer that won 5 Championships in a row, a feat matched only by Bjorn Borg.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
    #11
  12. Prisoner of Birth

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    Who would you say is the Wimbledon GOAT? I've never seen you offer any opinion on who the greater player is in any discussion.
     
    #12
  13. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Also, Federer doesn't have a George Bastl in his Wimbledon closet.
     
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  14. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Really. How many sets did Sampras lose in his 7 winning runs compared to Federer, again?

    Or maybe you mean more dominant as for he ended the points more quickly? Cause the stats prove otherwise.

    Sampras has nothing on Federer. Nothing.
     
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  15. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Rod Laver was unbeaten at Wimbledon for 10 years. He lost the 1960 Wimbledon final to Neale Fraser. After that, he won Wimbledon in 1961 and 1962, turned professional in late 1962 after completing the Grand Slam, which meant that Laver couldn't play Wimbledon from 1963 to 1967. Laver won the Wimbledon Pro tournament in 1967, won the first open Wimbledon tournament in 1968 and won Wimbledon again in 1969. The streak ended in the R16 of 1970 Wimbledon, where Laver lost to Roger Taylor.
     
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  16. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    Seems like you already made up your mind. In this case, you might as well close the poll and change the thread to "Federer is the greatest Wimbledon champion of all time". ;)
     
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  17. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's a very complex question. But it's clear that with Roger Federer and Pete Sampras both winning 7 Wimbledons, people use that to disadvantage previous generations, especially pre-open era. No amateur player would have stayed amateur until they had won 7 Wimbledons, unless we go back to the days when there was no professional tennis at all, like with William Renshaw winning 7 Wimbledons in the 1880s.
     
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  18. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Prisoner of Birth

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    I'm just giving you the facts, mate :) If you can't take them, just say, "I go by whatever I want to, I can't back up my opinion with facts and arguments, so leave me alone and let me believe whatever I want to. Thanks!"
     
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  20. Prisoner of Birth

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    Okay, what about between Federer and Sampras?
     
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  21. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    By that logic, I am unbeaten at Wimbledon for over a 100 years.
     
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  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Pancho Gonzales is considered one of the greatest players of all time. He first played Wimbledon in 1949, at the age of 21. He won the men's doubles title alongside Frank Parker, but lost in the R16 of the men's singles. Gonzales turned professional in late 1949. The next time when Gonzales was able to play a match at Wimbledon was for the Wimbledon Pro tournament in August 1967, by which time Gonzales was 39 years old.

    Other obstacles. Bill Tilden won Wimbledon in 1920, and again in 1921, but didn't travel to Wimbledon from 1922 to 1926, because the USLTA wanted Tilden's challengers to go over to the USA.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
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  23. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Don't forget how much tougher Renshaw's competition was. He had to beat his twin brother in 3 of those finals. :)
     
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  24. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Which is why I jokingly mentioned Renshaw in the first place. If you're going to limit the answers to Sampras and Federer, the question should be, "Who's the greatest Wimbledon player of the Open Era?"
     
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  25. Prisoner of Birth

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    [​IMG]
     
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  26. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Statisically, it's Federer. Sampras' mentality was usually to find a single break and then hold serve until he won the set, or to win the high pressure points in the tiebreaks. Federer's mentality was to totally outplay his opponent in all departments. The latter mentality is more likely to result in one-sided scorelines and shows a player with a strong all-round arsenal in his game on a consistent basis.
     
    #26
  27. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    What about subjectively?
     
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  28. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, objectively:

    Pete Sampras
    1989 Wimbledon
    R128: Todd Woodbridge def. Pete Sampras (7-5, 7-6, 5-7, 6-3)

    1990 Wimbledon
    R128: Christo Van Rensburg def. Pete Sampras (7-6, 7-5, 7-6)

    1991 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Danilo Marcelino (6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Derrick Rostagno def. Pete Sampras (6-4, 3-6, 7-6, 6-4)

    1992 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Andrei Cherkasov (6-1, 6-3, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Todd Woodbridge (7-6, 7-6, 6-7, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Scott Davis (6-1, 6-0, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Arnaud Boetsch (6-3, 7-5, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Stich (6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
    SF: Goran Ivanisevic def. Pete Sampras (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2)

    1993 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Neil Borwick (6-7, 6-3, 7-6, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Jamie Morgan (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Byron Black (6-4, 6-1, 6-1)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Andrew Foster (6-1, 6-2, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Andre Agassi (6-2, 6-2, 3-6, 3-6, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Jim Courier (7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-3)

    1994 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Jared Palmer (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Richey Reneberg (6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Chuck Adams (6-1, 6-2, 6-4)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Daniel Vacek (6-4, 6-1, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-1, 6-3)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Todd Martin (6-4, 6-4, 3-6, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (7-6, 7-6, 6-0)

    1995 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Karsten Braasch (7-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-1)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (6-2, 6-3, 7-6)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Jared Palmer (4-6, 6-4, 6-1, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Greg Rusedski (6-4, 6-3, 7-5)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Shuzo Matsuoka (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (7-6, 4-6, 6-3, 4-6, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-7, 6-2, 6-4, 6-2)


    1996 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Richey Reneberg (4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Karol Kucera (6-4, 6-1, 6-7, 7-6)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Cedric Pioline (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Richard Krajicek def. Pete Sampras (7-5, 7-6, 6-4)

    1997 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Mikael Tillstrom (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Hendrik Dreekmann (7-6, 7-5, 7-5)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Byron Black (6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Petr Korda (6-4, 6-3, 6-7, 6-7, 6-4)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-1, 6-7, 6-1, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Todd Woodbridge (6-2, 6-1, 7-6)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Cedric Pioline (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)

    1998 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Dominik Hrbaty (6-3, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Mikael Tillstrom (6-4, 6-4, 7-6)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Thomas Enqvist (6-3, 7-6, 7-6)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (6-3, 4-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 3-6, 6-2)

    1999 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Scott Draper (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Sebastien Lareau (6-4, 6-2, 6-3)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Danny Sapsford (6-3, 6-4, 7-5)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Daniel Nestor (6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (4-6, 2-1 ret.)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (3-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Andre Agassi (6-3, 6-4, 7-5)

    2000 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Jiri Vanek (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Karol Kucera (7-6, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Justin Gimelstob (2-6, 6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Jonas Bjorkman (6-3, 6-2, 7-5)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Jan-Michael Gambill (6-4, 6-7, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Vladimir Voltchkov (7-6, 6-2, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Patrick Rafter (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2)


    2001 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Francisco Clavet (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Barry Cowan (6-3, 6-2, 6-7, 4-6, 6-3)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Sargis Sargsian (6-4, 6-4, 7-5)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Pete Sampras (7-6, 5-7, 6-4, 6-7, 7-5)

    2002 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Martin Lee (6-3, 7-6, 6-3)
    R64: George Bastl def. Pete Sampras (6-3, 6-2, 4-6, 3-6, 6-4)


    Roger Federer
    1999 Wimbledon
    R128: Jiri Novak def. Roger Federer (6-3, 3-6, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4)

    2000 Wimbledon
    R128: Yevgeny Kafelnikov def. Roger Federer (7-5, 7-5, 7-6)

    2001 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Christophe Rochus (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Xavier Malisse (6-3, 7-5, 3-6, 4-6, 6-3)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Jonas Bjorkman (7-6, 6-3, 7-6)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Pete Sampras (7-6, 5-7, 6-4, 6-7, 7-5)
    QF: Tim Henman def. Roger Federer (7-5, 7-6, 2-6, 7-6)

    2002 Wimbledon
    R128: Mario Ancic def. Roger Federer (6-3, 7-6, 6-3)

    2003 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Hyung-Taik Lee (6-3, 6-3, 7-6)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Stefan Koubek (7-5, 6-1, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Mardy Fish (6-3, 6-1, 4-6, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Feliciano Lopez (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Sjeng Schalken (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (7-6, 6-3, 6-3)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-2, 7-6)

    2004 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Alex Bogdanovic (6-3, 6-3, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Alejandro Falla (6-1, 6-2, 6-0)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Thomas Johansson (6-3, 6-4, 6-3)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Ivo Karlovic (6-3, 7-6, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-1, 6-7, 6-0, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-2, 6-3, 7-6)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (4-6, 7-5, 7-6, 6-4)

    2005 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Paul-Henri Mathieu (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Ivo Minar (6-4, 6-4, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Kiefer (6-2, 6-7, 6-1, 7-5)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Juan Carlos Ferrero (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Fernando Gonzalez (7-5, 6-2, 7-6)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (6-2, 7-6, 6-4)

    2006 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Richard Gasquet (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Tim Henman (6-4, 6-0, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Mahut (6-3, 7-6, 6-4)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tomas Berdych (6-3, 6-3, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Mario Ancic (6-4, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Jonas Bjorkman (6-2, 6-0, 6-2)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (6-0, 7-6, 6-7, 6-3)

    2007 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Teymuraz Gabashvili (6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Juan Martin del Potro (6-2, 7-5, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tommy Haas (Walkover)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Juan Carlos Ferrero (7-6, 3-6, 6-1, 6-3)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Richard Gasquet (7-5, 6-3, 6-4)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 2-6, 6-2)


    2008 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Dominik Hrbaty (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Robin Soderling (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Marc Gicquel (6-3, 6-3, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (7-6, 6-2, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Mario Ancic (6-1, 7-5, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (6-3, 7-6, 6-4)
    FR: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 6-7, 9-7)

    2009 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Yen-Hsun Lu (7-5, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Philipp Kohlschreiber (6-3, 6-2, 6-7, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Robin Soderling (6-4, 7-6, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Ivo Karlovic (6-3, 7-5, 7-6)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Tommy Haas (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (5-7, 7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 16-14)


    2010 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Alejandro Falla (5-7, 4-6, 6-4, 7-6, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Ilija Bozoljac (6-3, 6-7, 6-4, 7-6)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Arnaud Clement (6-2, 6-4, 6-2)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Jurgen Melzer (6-3, 6-2, 6-3)
    QF: Tomas Berdych def. Roger Federer (6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 6-4)

    2011 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Mikhail Kukushkin (7-6, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Adrian Mannarino (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. David Nalbandian (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Mikhail Youzhny (6-7, 6-3, 6-3, 6-3)
    QF: Jo-Wilfried Tsonga def. Roger Federer (3-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4)

    2012 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Albert Ramos (6-1, 6-1, 6-1)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Fabio Fognini (6-1, 6-3, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Julien Benneteau (4-6, 6-7, 6-2, 7-6, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Xavier Malisse (7-6, 6-1, 4-6, 6-3)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Mikhail Youzhny (6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Novak Djokovic (6-3, 3-6, 6-4, 6-3)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Murray (4-6, 7-5, 6-3, 6-4)
     
    #28
  29. Prisoner of Birth

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    No, I was asking your (subjective) opinion. Forgetting all the stats and going by what you've seen, who do you think is the greater Wimbledon player?
     
    #29
  30. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    In other words, who do we like more?
     
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  31. Prisoner of Birth

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    Not exactly. I like Roddick more than Djokovic but Djokovic is the better USO player.
     
    #31
  32. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    He's not going to answer your question because he believe none of them are goat on grass except the player(s) pre-open era.
     
    #32
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Explain the bolded bit.
     
    #33
  34. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    What do you base that on?
     
    #34
  35. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    He agrees that, statistically, and objectively, Federer is the GOAT. He just thinks the guys pre-open-era didn't get the same opportunity to shine, making it kinda unfair.
     
    #35
  36. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    So if anyone believe M Jordan is the greatest NBA player must be their favorite player.
     
    #36
  37. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, that's correct. Federer's career has been in the public eye almost entirely. Even Sampras' matches were on the TV a lot less. And then there's the amateur/pro split in the pre-open days.
     
    #37
  38. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    Not necessarily, no.
     
    #38
  39. Prisoner of Birth

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    Mostly by statistics and level-of-play. Primarily stats, though. If the stats are comparable, I'll look at their levels of play. Roddick and Djokovic have fairly comparable stats (with Djokovic leading fairly comfortably, of course) but Djokovic has shown the higher level of play. Similarly, even though Djokovic is a Wimbledon Champion, Roddick, for me, is a much better grasscourter. I know I'm going against stats here but this is being subjective.

    Disclaimer : This is when I'm judging "greatness". Djokovic is the "greater" Wimbledon player. Roddick is a much better Wimbledon player. There is a difference.
     
    #39
  40. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well if it's not Federer or Sampras than who? Can't be Borg because he only has 5. I can only expect you pick player(s) from the early 70s and before.
     
    #40
  41. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    That's what Mustard did to answer your question.
     
    #41
  42. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Have you read this thread, especially the bit where I talked about why there were no dominant Wimbledon champions for decades after Fred Perry?
     
    #42
  43. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Okay, I guess I'm not making any sense, sorry. I just wanted to get a more straight-sounding answer from Mustard.
     
    #43
  44. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    What is the difference, if you don't mind me asking?
     
    #44
  45. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    So? This is all speculating.

    Even if he chose not to turned pro, playing/winning the amateur slams is nowhere near as great as the modern slam(see Emerson). And even if there were no such thing as split field, you don't if Laver would have won 7 Wimbledons. You can't give credit to Laver when it never happened.
     
    #45
  46. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    I'm not seeing any grass court specialist in Federer's resume. Pete had to deal with an army of grass specialist during the 90s under real grass conditions. The competition on grass now is a joke.
     
    #46
  47. Prisoner of Birth

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    Ah, man, it's sort of hard to explain. It becomes a circular argument, which I hate to get into. But here's one way to explain it without it becoming a circular argument.

    Let us consider player A and player B.

    Player A makes every single Grand Slam final for 10 years straight, but doesn't win one. Player B makes one Grand Slam final, wins it, and doesn't make it past the fourth round in any other Grand Slam final. Who is the better player? Player A. Who is the Greater Champion? Player B. This is an extreme example but you get my point.

    I just think Roddick, when playing well, is a formidable Grasscourter. And to me he deserved the 2009 Wimbledon more than Federer. He was the better player in that match. One of those rare instances when the better player on the day lost, IMO. He is a Wimbledon Champion in my mind.


    To put it simply, the greatest should be judged purely statistically. And 1 Grand Slam means more than 100 Grand Slam finals. I, personally, value Grand Slam final appearances very highly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
    #47
  48. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Tennis history is complicated, more than the vast majority of sports due to changing equipment and the circumstances with amateurism/professionalism through the decades. I'm surprised that more people don't ask why the mainstream majors weren't dominated by anyone from the 1940s to the 1960s, unless we count Roy Emerson. Where did Jack Kramer, Pancho Segura and Dinny Pails go after 1947? Where did Pancho Gonzales go after 1949? Where did Frank Sedgman and Ken McGregor go after 1952? Where did Tony Trabert go after 1955? Where did Ken Rosewall go after 1956? Where did Lew Hoad go after 1957? Where did Ashley Cooper and Mal Anderson go after 1958? Where did Alex Olmedo go after 1959? etc.

    These guys were winning mainstream majors and then suddenly weren't. I'm surprised that more people don't ask why that was.
     
    #48
  49. Prisoner of Birth

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    QF: Richard Krajicek def. Pete Sampras (7-5, 7-6, 6-4)
     
    #49
  50. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    If you can't explain it, then you shouldn't claim it.

    If the chair umpire says your name after "Game, set, match," then you were the better player that day. I have the DVD of that match, and I distinctly heard "Game, set, match, Federer."
     
    #50

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