Who is the most talented player?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by jktennis59, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. jktennis59

    jktennis59 New User

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    In my opinion the most talented player the most of the times reach the best ranking. There were several players with great talent that simply lost the right way.
    Personally I've never seen a player like Marcelo Ríos. His hands, his anticipation. Unfortunately God didn't gave him a regular brain.
    Does anybody remember the final against Agassi at The Lipton in Key Biscayne? Later, in 2002 I saw Ríos again versus Agassi inthe SF of the same tournament. He abandon he match in the 3rd set due a knee injury.
    He was self destructive and still a genius.

    Same case is Marat Safin. The only player that is a real threat to Federer in fast surfaces if he's in good condition (phisically and mentally).

    Does anybody remember a swedish player called Andreas Vinciguerra?
     
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  2. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    what do you mean by talent?

    do you mean the best to watch?
    The one with the best reflexes?
    The fastest one?
    The fittest one?
    The most consistant one?
    The most powerful one?
    The most accurate one?
    The one with the biggest serve?
    The one with the biggest groundstrokes?
     
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  3. dukemunson

    dukemunson Rookie

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    Rios- "God didnt give him a regular brain"?

    Is it that or is it that he has a regular brain and guys like Federer, Agassi, Sampras, etc...just had ridiculous minds on the court? You can say the guy had exponentially more talent then a lot of guys but talent is only part of the equation...it takes a level of commitment that I would imagine few of us on this message board ever had...from double workouts to eating right to traveling 35-45 weeks out of the year (sounds nice but try it for 6, 7, 8 years) to mentally having to compete against the very best in the world. Sick of people ripping Safin for being a "nut case" or an "idiot mentall"...guy needs a beer or two to stay sane while on the road...gets tired of the grind and needs a break...instead of ripping him for being pathetic (like any of us have his mental toughness) why not look at guys like Hewitt and say those guys are freaks...

    Rios hit #1 in the world...an epic achievement...
     
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  4. Nick Irons

    Nick Irons Semi-Pro

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    Rios

    (LMAOROFLHELO)
     
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  5. vkartikv

    vkartikv Hall of Fame

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    Safin. Safin. Safin. Safin....
     
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  6. angharad

    angharad Semi-Pro

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    Couldn't you say that having the "right brain" (or however you want to phrase it) is a big part of talent? Mental strength is a huge part of the game...I'll go so far as to say that it's what separates "potential" from "talent". And I'll be honest with you - I don't care how much potential someone has if it never materialises.
     
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  7. DiabloTS

    DiabloTS Rookie

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    Could you elaborate ur acronym. I got lost after lmaorofl
     
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  8. Nick Irons

    Nick Irons Semi-Pro

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    LOL

    'Helicopter'
     
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  9. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    I think what he means by most talent is, the most physical talent. Quickest reflexes, fastest mover, hand eye coordination, ect...
     
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  10. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Having pretty strokes is a talent......

    .....a better and rarer talent is mental toughness.
     
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  11. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Great post-as a summary of the almost FREAKISH or monk-like commitment required to win on the tour. Physical "talent" is only part of the equation and maybe not even the biggest part. Fitness/conditioning, commitment and mental toughness are what make a winner. ALL ATP pros have a degree of "talent" that we average hackers can't even imagine.

    The reason that Federer is so successful is not because he is "talented"; it's because he is not ONLY a rare talent, but he has found the secret to CONVERTING that talent into 10 Majors (and counting) and an undisputed #1 ranking. That secret is total and uncompromising discipline, commitment to being The Best, and the mental toughness to go along with it.

    So-called talented players-those guys who seem to be able to make shots or strike the ball at a level even above fellow ATP pros-come and go. Rios will be barely a footnote a couple years from now-except to crazy tennis fans like us. Another wasted "talent".
     
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  12. 127mph

    127mph Semi-Pro

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    federer, safin, rios, gasquet, berdych nastase had buetiful strokes, theres other talents like agassi, and sampras who had ballstriking like no other.
     
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  13. BeckerFan

    BeckerFan Rookie

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    In my opinion, Rios is the most overrated player of modern times on the basis of pure 'talent.' Any player can hit an amazing shot, play an amazing game, even win an amazing set. Rios may have had a lot of potential, but he didn't have the gift to be able to piece it all together on a consistent basis. Safin is far, far better, in my judgment; though he is notoriously 'up and down,' he has produced many great matches and impressive runs at important tournaments. Two Grand Slam titles to zero. No contest.

    Federer is without doubt the most talented player I have seen in my lifetime. His one-handed backhand lifts him even above Safin in my mind, giving him greater reach and variety of shot off that wing. Federer has the forehand, the backhand, the serve, the volleys, the movement, and the mental toughness--the whole package. Sampras and Agassi were both phenomenal talents, with very different stand-out skills. Becker, McEnroe, and Borg, too.

    Based on clips and what their contemporaries said/wrote, I have to include Ellsworth Vines and Lew Hoad at the very highest rank. Players and writers felt that these two, playing at their highest level, were unbeatable. Vines fired 30 aces in only 12 service games against Bunny Austin in the 1932 Wimbledon final, and he supposedly AVERAGED 2.5 aces per game in his 1939 tour against Don Budge. He had the finest natural swinging rhythm I have seen, even to this day. Hoad played with incredible power on every shot--even his volleys looked like cannonballs. If I could travel in time to sit court-side and see any two players at the height of their games, I would choose these two (and perhaps Fred Perry).
     
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  14. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I think a lot of times "talent" is associated with flashiness and shotmaking ability. Thus, you here alot about players who never won Slams, but "could hit all the shots" and "are probably one of the most talented players." Rios, Henri Leconte, Tommy Haas, to name a few.

    But, I don't buy this. The truely most talented have all the shots and can put it together to get significant victories/titles. Does the fact that Leconte could hit ridicolous winners make him more talented than Lendl who was less flashy but won 8 slams?

    The "talent" question really becomes livelyy when you talk about players who did win multiple Slams, but were not that flashy. Someone like Courier, for example, who was a workhorse. I've heard commentators say that Rios is more talented than Courier. That holds up only if "talent" is only flashiness and shotmaking.
     
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  15. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    he was injured during some time... but he is still playing !
    http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/playe...=Singles&selTournament=0&player=V250&x=19&y=8
    unfortunately for him he couldn't come back at the same level...

    but i don't think he was that talented compared to most of the other players mentionned in this thread. i'm not sure to remember perfectly but didn't he lack of variation in his game ?...
     
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  16. spadesss

    spadesss Semi-Pro

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    i rememberred the final against Agassi at The Lipton in Key Biscayne. i was shell shocked at the score. that was the match that turned my head.

    i agreed that rios and safin are two of the greatest natural gifted players that didn't produce good results.

    korda was another one (minus the doping ban). winning the AO.
    wayne ferria (typo?) from south africa. i think pete said he was scare to play in in wimbledon as he can whip winners from anywhere in the back court.
     
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  17. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

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    federer is the most talented player. He can do everything and does it well and with ease.
     
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  18. jktennis59

    jktennis59 New User

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    Because english is not my mother language probably I didn't express my point correctly.
    I mean "talented player" the one who seems to play effortless (like Federer), the player that has that physical "plus" that makes the game so easy. Obviously this is purely subjective. In my opinion, Ríos was that kind of player that had that physical talent but didn't have the mental strenght, or discipline, or wathever, to be in the top 20 more time.
     
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  19. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Federer wins this contest by a long shot.
     
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  20. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    Hicham Arazi and Marcelo Rios by a long shot. They had so much talent but so little heart and drive
     
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  21. Nastase

    Nastase Rookie

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    Nastase.

    Many former pros have said he was the most talented of all time....one added, however, "he just forgot to practice".
     
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  22. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    McEnroe.

    When you see some talented players, you always compare them to
    McEnroe. Federer has McEnroe like hand. Arazi also had that type of hand.
    Rios always somehow appeared to make perfect timing in all of his strokes...
     
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  23. jktennis59

    jktennis59 New User

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    You're right, I forgot Hicham Arazi. What a player. He was very fluid in his tennis.
     
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  24. BeckerFan

    BeckerFan Rookie

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    I would argue that McEnroe's talent has been overrated, to an extent. He was certainly a natural ... had great touch/feel, especially at the net. As a personality, he appealed to our cultural predisposition toward 'tortured genius' types. But he lacked the raw power, so I think he never quite had the potential of Becker, Agassi, Sampras or Federer. Pancho Gonzales rated McEnroe's talent below that of Lew Hoad, on the basis of power, but he considered Sampras to be Hoad's equal.
     
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  25. jktennis59

    jktennis59 New User

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    McEnroe without his personality would be just a "very good" player. Not a genius. In my opinion, Becker was pure power and heart. Without that Sampras touch in the volley, but still one of my favorite players.
     
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  26. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    If being "very good" means being a 4 time US Open champion, 3 time Wimbledon champion, year end #1 four times, & holder of the best single season winning % of the open era-.965 in 1984, I'd like to know what being "great" is.

    And Mac got called a genius as many, if not more times, than Federer has during his 15 year career by many players, commentators, writers, some of which have been following the game for 40-50 years. Guess they didn't know what they were talking about, & were just fooled by his tantrums into thinking he was more unique than they thought.

    Its a shame that the ATP or even USTA don't sanction some wood racquet only events. I think many would have to change their definition of what "talent" means. I'd love to see the Mac of today vs any player on tour with a wood racquet.
     
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  27. Nick Irons

    Nick Irons Semi-Pro

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    Could not agree any more with this assessment.

    Really really could not agree any more with this statement !
     
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  28. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    McEnroe's greatest talent was his ability to anticipate his opponent. That feeds into his incredible touch and feel, but also his footwork when he didn't have the foot speed of Borg or Becker.

    Basically you give a guy McEnroe's skill set, reconstruct his strokes for modern game, and put him in modern conditioning, he would look a lot like Federer. Weaker forehand, but better net game, and same, uncanny court sense and point construction.

    Athletically, to me, it's a tossup between Becker and Sampras. Safin has more power and wider span, but he didn't move like those two. And perhaps his height prevented him from varying from his aggro ballstriker game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2007
    #28
  29. BeckerFan

    BeckerFan Rookie

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    Oh, I would never argue that McEnroe was not a GREAT player. Any three-time winner of the most important tournament in the world deserves 'legend' status, in my book. I was only addressing the matter of talent/potential, where I do feel McEnroe is sometimes overrated, partly on the basis of his personality.
     
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  30. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    whoah, was that a typo? love becker, but he was a clumsy oaf as far as footwork goes compared to mac, who glided around the court & could hit great on the run(very similar to murray, he was always in the right spot at the right time)
    I have many Lendl-Mac matches on tape, everytime they break down strengths & weaknesses, they give the edge, a big edge, to Mac in the speed department.

    Off course he's not Borg, but who is? He's probably the fastest tennis player ever, not a fair comparison.

    Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I doubt Laver, Budge, & many other alltimers that were overflowing with praise for Mac really gave a whit about his "personality" when talking about his abilities.
     
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  31. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Hmm, yeah, big brain cramp there. :D His court sense is uncanny -- he could play with much of the top-100 tour at his age now because of that.

    Mmm . . . but I think in media perception, his personality did enhance that tortured aspect. Kinda like how Safin's meltdowns enhances his. I kinda thnk if Sampras had those, he'd been more popular as a tennis personality, because it would have better contrasted his spectacular athleticism.
     
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  32. Nick Irons

    Nick Irons Semi-Pro

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    When I was younger I really enjoyed a player like Mac or Connors going into meltdown but now, as a 37 year old ...

    It makes me not like them as much for the lack of class. Even Roddick does it, and all I think about is 'What a spoiled lil chiild' this kid is. What other sport can you berate the Ref/Umpire in like you can in tennis ?

    I have no problems with questioning calls; but screaming obscenities or verbally assualting someone is classless.

    Sorry about threadjack; back OT
     
    #32
  33. Vlad

    Vlad Professional

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    In today's game, just based on shotmaking:


    1. Federer


    2. Gasquet





    3. Safin.


    4. Others
     
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  34. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    Fed is the most talented player. Wheres his weakness? On top of his physical talents he seems very bright. The dudes blessed, just face it. :)
     
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  35. ibemadskillzz

    ibemadskillzz Semi-Pro

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    ROFLWAFLFFLECOPTERLAMOROFL hyung taik lee IMO
     
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  36. StunLock

    StunLock Semi-Pro

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    federer by a long shot
     
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  37. BeckerFan

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    Hey, I admit that McEnroe was a phenomenal talent. I read a piece by Arthur Ashe on McEnroe that was filled with well-founded praise. But we are all influenced by personality when making judgments ... even the 'greats' aren't immune. Our attraction to dark, tortured, tempestuous genius goes back at least as far as the Renaissance. Vasari portrayed Raphael as something of a fop, while the stormy Michelangelo was literally an ambassador from heaven. We expect artists to fit the Michelangelic mold. McEnroe certainly did, and for that reason I feel that people have always been inclined to overstate his talents. Laver, I believe, later said that Sampras was even more talented than McEnroe. Sampras was rarely described as an 'artist,' however, or even a 'genius' ... at least not with the same frequency as these words were applied to McEnroe. How much are you willing to bet that personality has NOTHING to do with it?
     
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  38. jktennis59

    jktennis59 New User

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    I mean "genius" those players that seems to be "out of this world". Those players that have that natural instinct and abilities that make a difference between them and the other players. NOT necessarily a genius is a winner.

    For example, I consider Marcelo Ríos a genius, but his behavior attempted against his career. Other genius? Ilie Nastase, a crazy guy touched by tennis gods. I don't consider Lendl a genius because his game was mechanic, like a robot. A tennis machine. Great numbers, but still not a genius. Same case with Borg.

    Regarding McEnroe, his numbers could be similar to these players but his "plus" was his personality. He intimidated his opponents by his behavior and attitude. He had a great volley and anticipation 20 years ago, when the game was fairly slower. In my opinion, with that style of game, in this era McEnroe would be a top 20. No more.
     
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  39. jktennis59

    jktennis59 New User

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    #39
  40. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Nastase JMac Federer
     
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  41. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    John McEnroe because he has won :

    - grand slam singles titles
    - grand slam doubles titles
    - grand slam mixed doubles title
     
    #41
  42. Ronny

    Ronny Hall of Fame

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  43. jktennis59

    jktennis59 New User

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    Santoro is other of the most talented players that I've seen. Singles or doubles he is fantastic.
    I had the priviledge of watching him, in site (Key Biscayne), playing singles and doubles and that was a great experience.
    I hope he'll be back this year.
    I'm glad that somebody undertood my point about what I call a genius in tennis.

    Best regards.
     
    #43
  44. G4t0

    G4t0 New User

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    #44
  45. pcpshortbus

    pcpshortbus Rookie

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    safin by far
     
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  46. tenis

    tenis Professional

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    What a question, did you ever see play Roger???
     
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  47. tennishead93

    tennishead93 Semi-Pro

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    If Safin could control his temper whenever he wanted to he would be the best singles player to ever play tennis w/ 20+ grandslams when he hangs up his racket.
     
    #47
  48. tintin

    tintin Professional

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    none of your damn business
    yes maybe but only on 3 surfaces: RA/Clay/Hard
    have you seen the man play on grass?;) ;) ;)
     
    #48
  49. BeckerFan

    BeckerFan Rookie

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    Safin seems to be warming up to grass, ever so slowly.

    He could very well become more of a threat at Wimbledon later in his career.
     
    #49
  50. tennishead93

    tennishead93 Semi-Pro

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    he better get better on grass soon hes pretty much midway through his career already
     
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