Who says women are more dramatic than men when it comes to tennis?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by AR15, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    That is in direct contradiction with:

    Now, if he had just asked me, face to face, why the schedule change, I would have explained and we wouldn't have had this drama.

    But I suppose you know much more about his motivations. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
    #51
  2. Bdarb

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    Well said.
     
    #52
  3. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    LOL. My cousin was in her own little world and completely oblivious to what I was doing. I know I need a co-captain, but I'm far too anal about micromanaging everything. Anyway, the point of bringing that up is that it wasn't actually a huge aggravation, not that it was.
     
    #53
  4. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Most people are like you, believe me. The other part of my story is that 4 of my guys were available on demand to work through an unavoidable last minute lineup fiasco, including one who dropped everything and immediately left cocktail hour to play a match he didn't expect to because we needed someone.
     
    #54
  5. eelhc

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    My post was directed at the OP but that's a good list... The teams I have captained or organized in any sport I was also clear up front that team decisions are made based on everyone's and all reasonable accommodations will be made but in the end it is not a democracy any team decision is mine to make (and the co-captain's). In almost 30 years of adult team sports there's only been a few occasions when I had to make a decision on the spot without consulting the team. I also expect this when I am a part of a team that I am not the captain and honor the captain's decision without question. If I don't like the way the team is being managed, I just won't play for that team in the following season but will honor that captain's decision for the time I am on the team.
     
    #55
  6. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    Exactly...

    I've only been playing USTA a couple of years and fortunately had good captains and teams to captain. That said... Tennis has far more "interesting" team politics and dynamics than any other sports that I have played. A lot of it in my area has to do with posturing for a better NTRP rating. I really could care less but a LOT of folks are obsessed with that 1 decimal place number. Some captains only put themselves (and their close friends) in a favorable position to win, some folks do not like playing with a weaker partner, others are not available to play against strong teams...
     
    #56
  7. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    I am mostly a singles player but do occasionally play doubles when needed in a lineup. I played on a couple of similar teams last year (2 skill levels) where I made it clear to the captains I would not play with the weaker players up front. My main reason for this is my playing time is limited and I don't want to waste it playing with a bad partner, but I am also not a big fan of losing. It is extremely frustrating to have a weak partner against a good team.

    Clearly the guy didn't handle the situation well, but I do understand his point.
     
    #57
  8. Brian11785

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    You are trolling, right? This feels like a troll.
     
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  9. spot

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    Eh- I don't have a problem with this. If someone is signing up for a team primarily to play singles then as long as they ask for something like that up front then I can work around that. But it also means that if I have better singles players available then I will sit them without thinking twice about it. As long as it is all said up front then I can work around it no problem and I will just be looking for someone else who is a better fit.
     
    #59
  10. tennis_ocd

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    The root issue is some people simply aren't cut out to play on a team.
     
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  11. Bdarb

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    And alot of those people play tennis as it's an individual sport.
     
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  12. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, the irony!

    I captain, and sometimes singles players are very committed to playing singles. They will play doubles occasionally as needed.

    When the doubles players (at 4.0) hear they are partnered with a singles player, it is the doubles players who often complain. The singles player will get pinned in the back corner and isn't used to dealing with two opponents at net. The singles player won't hit angles. Her return placement is inexact, her returns are too high, and her balls get poached. She stands flat footed at the net if she will agree to be at net at all and does nothing to help her partner hold. She is easily distracted by fakes, formations and aggressive poaches. She is out of position and doesn't know it.

    This is not true of all singles players, of course. I know a few singles players with strong doubles backgrounds, and I know a singles player who does well in doubles because she is on the cusp of moving up to 4.5 singles. But rarely is the singles player also a strong doubles player.

    The idea that a singles player would demand to play only with the strongest doubles players is amusing to me. Not gonna happen.
     
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  13. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    No, and I am actually surprised by all the responses.

    I didn't captain but was involved in some of the lineup choices and doubles partners caused a lot of issues over the season. There were a few guys who were open about partners, but they seemed to be the weaker players who just wanted to play. The rest of the people cared quite a bit about who they played with. Actually even the weaker players cared about who they played with. I guess things are different where I play.
     
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  14. AR15

    AR15 Professional

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    I think everyone cares who they play with. The problem often is that everyone can't get their wish on any given night.
     
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  15. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    it's funny, when I lived in SoCal, people wanted to LOWER their NRTP rating. Lots of sandbagging. I tried a USTA team once. Went to the rating day, played as well as I could, got rated 4.5. Then I get to the courts and I'm playing guys who are legit 5.0s who held back when being rated so they could get onto a 4.5 team. I don't get it.

    I want to play people who are at my level, I want competitive matches and I want to have fun. I'm not getting paid by the win.

    In most cases where there's a problem with this stuff, the root of it is ego. If you need to beat me to feel good about yourself, great, how about I default and then we go get a beer. I like to win as much as the next guy but my self worth is not predicated on my performance on the courts.

    Thank goodness.
     
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  16. Sakkijarvi

    Sakkijarvi Semi-Pro

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    @ this: The root issue is some people simply aren't cut out to play on a team. > And alot of those people play tennis as it's an individual sport.

    Hmm, well. Doubles is a team in every sense. Playing on a team, even if you are a singles "specialist" involves all the aspects of getting along with others. Just being a member of a club does too. Want to be a solo act, haunt outdoor courts alone.

    On the 'effective communications' and all that. I played for a team captained by a nice corporate guy. He had the CYA approach, sent out emails to folks, every little thing, an email. Then all these [REPLY ALL] emails. A mountain of emails back and forth about the kind of donuts to bring...

    So the prima dona complains about some perceived injustice ... yawn. What's new? Show up and play. Shut up and play. Have a few laughs. Then show up and play.
     
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  17. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I just show up and play wherever the captain puts me. I've captained teams before and certainly appreciate that a team of guys isn't always easy. However, a mixed team is definitely a higher level of drama (which I will never do again).
     
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  18. beernutz

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    You are on teams that do this? I've played league since 2005 and I've never had a captain arrange for extra players to come to a match just in case someone doesn't show. You wouldn't mind a captain regularly asking you to do this - show up dressed and ready but probably not play?
     
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  19. Bdarb

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    I wouldn't mind him asking me as long as he didn't mind me telling him no.
     
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  20. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    My captain does this and on at least one occasion it saved us from a default. Since I live over 1/2 hour from our home courts, I refuse to be the alternate on most occasions, but if the away match is near my house, which happens once or twice a season, I'm glad to do it.
     
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  21. eelhc

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    It's common practice at our club and other clubs we play against. It's based on availability and we usually get alternates. Once in a while we have to go without alternates or on real thin weeks forfeit.

    When additional courts are available, once the match starts the alternates can play or practice. Most folks usually stay for food and drinks afterwards too.

    If I was an alternate every week and didn't get to play it would bother me... but a couple three times a season I don't mind.

    Come to think of it I do think I play with/against a good bunch of people. I guess I never gave much thought to the alternate arrangement.... But I do think that when one joins a team they are making a commitment to that team.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
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  22. spot

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    Wow... We have a team of guys who will still show up and watch matches they aren't in the lineup for but I would never in a million years ask people to show up as alternate.
     
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  23. Bdarb

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    I probably would do this but I live 50 minutes from the indoor facility. We get drinks and stuff after so it would be fine, but I'm not about to drive two hours to watch recreational players play tennis. If it was 15-20 minutes away and I didn't have anything going on, I'd probably go check it out. We're all friends anyway.

    That being said, I wouldn't like going to play knowing that I probably wouldn't.
     
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  24. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Like most people, I'm crazy busy. Carving out time for matches I actually play is tough enough. Were I asked to show up with the very good chance I wasn't going to play, my answer would be a polite "not happening".
     
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  25. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I guess it is a local or regional difference then because it would be problematic for 'extra' players to show up at an away match at a private club here and expect to get court time. Even if the match was a home one out of a private club there wouldn't be anyone else to play with if the extra player wasn't needed would there? Other than at private clubs most of our local matches are held at a city-owned tennis center which charges an hourly rate, so if an extra player even could find another person to play with they'd then be expected to pay for the privilege. We also don't do food and drinks after our matches.

    Not to mention like Posture Guy and spot have noted, my time for tennis is pretty limited by family and work commitments so that coming to matches 'just in case' I'm needed is not going to happen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
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  26. goober

    goober Legend

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    That means you are a weak doubles players. Have you ever considered that the better doubles players may not enjoy playing with you? All the best doubles players I have come across could carry anyone on the team. If you can't carry a weaker partner than you are just your average or below average doubles player on the team.

    I absolutely hated people who insisted that they play with the best players. Yeah well guess what everybody would like to play with the best players. Usually people who insist have huge egos and think they are much better than they actually are. Obviously you don't understand the concept of team?
     
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  27. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    I was 13-3 in doubles and my serve was probably broken less than 5 times. I am much better at singles but can hold my own in doubles. I was probably not the best doubles player on my teams but was in the top group and played in playoffs/districts when not playing singles. I was actually requested by one of the top couple guys for a doubles partner but played singles in playoffs/districts instead.

    I was asked to play on these teams and only did so given this condition. This condition was based on the teams having a subset of players which were not really at level but friends of people on the team. I might have been able to carry the people but didn't want to. I don't like doubles that much anyway and really hate it with an inconsistent partner that throws off the rhythm of the match. I could have chosen other teams or have gone singles only but went with these teams because I had friends there. Out of the 8 teams I played for there were no issues and in numerous cases I jumped in last minute as a sub and even carried a few partners.

    I have played (and still do) in other competitive team sports and do understand the concept of a team. I won't go into the details but many USTA teams are more like social organizations than competitive teams.
     
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  28. goober

    goober Legend

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    You are only in this position because you are at the top of of your division. I had a player exactly like you. He was the best singles player but average in doubles but still demanded to play with the best players if we "forced" him to play doubles. When he got bumped at the of the year and he was now a weak player at the next level not good enough for singles because all the top players were teaching pros and ex-college players. He could no longer make demands. He found himself playing number 3 doubles and losing a lot. I was not surprised at all when he basically quit USTA tennis after that.

    This is a tangent but I understand the psychology of why people manage ratings so much. When you are the top dog in your level everything is good. People ask you to join the team. You can make conditional demands on your team. Heck I have had top players demand I pay all their court and league fees to join the team. Everybody wants you. You win a lot and only other top players in the division give you tough matches. Life is good.

    When you get bumped to a level you are now a nobody especially if you get bumped to a level where you realize that it is unlikely that you will not rise to the top or you can't do so without enormous effort and time . For some people this level may be 4.5 or 5.0. Now you are looking at nobody asking you to join, people not wanting to play with you because you are the weakest player on the team. So what to do? If you are 3.5 or 4.0 you can see yourself easily hanging with the top guys if you put in more of your regular practice. If you get bumped to 4.5 or 5.0 it may be not so easy especially if you are the typical adult playing closing in on middle age with family and work obligations. So go to plan B- lose a bunch of matches and go back to your lower rating so you can be top dog again.

    * end of random rant.
     
    #78
  29. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Nah...I disagree. What you just talked about happens with many women's teams. I've even seen some nonsense on some men's teams that I've played with but clearly the drama starts when women are involved. There is no drama like mixed doubles drama and I've seen quite a bit with ladies teams.

    Most men will call you up and talk about it or cuss you out about it but that would be the end of it. Women carry that stuff from team to team for years. Some won't play on teams with certain women because of something they did 2 summers ago. Men on the other hand will just as I just told my captain..."as long as I don't have to play with him we are good" when told a guy would be joining our team who I've had to cuss out every time I've played him in singles or doubles. I don't mind the guy the being on the team. I just don't have to play with him. Women again don't operate like that.

    I've yet to be on a mixed team where there wasn't some drama and it is almost always caused by women. Hell you talk to women and they themselves don't even like to be around other women but would rather be around men.


     
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  30. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    The reason I answered this post was not related to my personal situation but in regards to the general comments regarding people being open to partners. I have seen very few people who have been willing to show up and have their partner assigned, and I have seen a lot of extremely unhappy people when they get stuck with a terrible partner and lose. The original guy might not have handled it smoothly but I can guarantee that many if not most competitive player would look for a different team if they got stuck playing with someone at the bottom of the level.

    In regards to my personal situation you might consider 13-3 the record of an average doubles player. Two of those losses were to guys playing in Tuscon this week and another was in a tiebreaker for a match in Districts and in all of these matches I was not the weaker partner. To be clear there weren't many people complaining about me as a doubles partner. I am by no means even close to the best but as I said can hold my own.

    I am unfortunately already middle aged with limited time, and my best tennis years are definitely in the past. If I get in better shape I can probably get bumped to a level where I am not competitive. My guess is I won't have to try to hard to lower my rating at that point.
     
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  31. Brian11785

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    If you are going 13-3 at doubles (your alleged weaker game) and playing at nationals, there is no chance of your getting bumped down. In fact, if you don't get bumped up, I would assume there was some serious rankings management going on. As goober said, being at the top of your level affords you the ability to make demands like "I want to play with the best doubles players"; surely you know that getting bumped up, those same demands would be less respected.
     
    #81
  32. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    It’s interesting to note that how the OP creates way more drama by having a catchy thread title questioning whether one of his players is being a drama king.
    The player probably quit and moved on and the OP, being the leader of the team, is still stuck and debating about the situation. Who is more dramatic in this case?
    Without knowing the full history of the relationships between the captain and players we don’t know the whole story.
     
    #82
  33. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Corollary to this it's ironic that the responder has a forum monicker "maleyoyo" that appears to prove the OP's point.
     
    #83
  34. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    Do you always judge the book by its cover? If you really want to understand the meaning of the username…just ask.
    But it’s much easier to attack the messenger when you can’t debate the context.
     
    #84
  35. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    To be clear, I lost to guys who are at nationals this week. I am not playing there myself. I am better at singles just have a better record at doubles for odd reasons. This is how teams work though. Better players clearly have their requests (not demands) taken more seriously. As I noted, I am perfectly happy with that. I played on many teams as a kid where I was second string. I might not have been happy but that's just the way life is...
     
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  36. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    a lot of ****y responses on this thread. Why some feel compelled to call out those they don't even know is beyond me. Immature and childish. Lots of egos wandering around these parts.

    Had my first match for a team since high school this morning. Got there and reported in to the team captain. He asked if I wanted to do singles or doubles. My response was "i'll do whatever you want me to do, but I haven't played doubles in 15 years. Used to be pretty good at it, was state runner up in high school my junior year, but haven't played much doubles since." so I played the second singles slot and won my match. Happy to contribute.
     
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  37. Rjtennis

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    The guy was on the phone trying to get a player. How the heck would have you done it? You want him to ditch finding a player so he can hold grown men's hands to communicate the situation.
     
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  38. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Exactly right.

    This whole thread is just more evidence of the weenification of American men. STFU, grow a pair, and if you're on a team, start acting like it. If you want to be a diva, get a karaoke machine and get your Celine Dion on. When you get to the courts, do what you're asked to do without complaint and if you can't do that, don't be on a TEAM.

    Geezus.
     
    #88
  39. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    I wrote that before, as soon as I became aware of the issue I would communicate it immediately to the team by using texting and email.
     
    #89
  40. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Yes.

    What is the meaning of your user name?

    I didn't attack you, I merely pointed out the irony.

    I CAN debate the context but I don't feel like it.

    Sayonara
     
    #90
  41. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    YEP! American males have become drones in a matriarchy, actually with artificial insemination they're not needed at all
     
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  42. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Nope, men are desperately needed. Just wish we had more of them instead of whatever the heck it is running around pretending to be one.
     
    #92
  43. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    Aren't all your posts doing exactly the same thing??
     
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  44. tennis_ocd

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    ex-captain actually tried assigning me with guy who regularly showed up in previous year's line of nike tops -- some on team believe he purposefully waits and gets them discounted. If he'd a least emailed me I could have put some effort into coordinating something and made it work....
     
    #94
  45. eelhc

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    What just happened here? This is beginning to take a weird turn...
     
    #95
  46. GlennK

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    ^^^ My vote for funniest TW post ever.
     
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  47. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Hahahahaha.
     
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  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Men are obsolete in a technologically-advanced society. At the present time, their only use is as soldiers to fight against other men - i.e., men create their own jobs in this area by some acting as aggressors and the other as defenders. Once women see through this ruse, the value of men will be even more diminished. Actually, their value is already coming down due to the rise of robots and drones. I like it that way because less men means more women for me.
     
    #98
  49. Bdarb

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    I like your style:)
     
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  50. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    I wonder how much your partner would have liked experiencing your first doubles match in 15 years.

    In any case my point isn't to "call you out", I just found some humor in reading another thread today regarding teams http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=480762. This thread seems to describe the issues of a USTA much better than the issues on my HS football or even tennis team. I'm ok with driving 45 minutes with an injured back to avoid a default but not quite as happy playing with the captain's friend to protect their fragile ego. The weak players who think they are good cause the drama on the teams I have been on. The Diva's just find another place to sing without causing too many issues at least to the rest of the team.
     

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