Who thinks Fed would play better with a 95" racquet?

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by Mickey Finn, May 18, 2007.

  1. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well, this ain't saying much becaue other than Fed and Nadal>>> none of these other pros you are speaking about using these larger frames are doing much on tour. Perhaps they should go to a larger frame??? :roll:

    Like you said, pros are going to use the headsize that produces the best result. Fed is using a 90 and I would say with 11 slams under his belt (which blows away all current pros and many past pros), it is pretty good.

    Not too many pros are using 105-110 square inch frames either. And I can't remeber the last one to win a slam with one. I think the 90 is doing much better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  2. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Exactly, and the same with Federer, right? If a larger racquet benefited him, he would switch, right?

    I agree with you that it's not about the racquet and each pro should use what's best for their own games.

    However, I disagree with the overriding presumption here that a bigger racquet must always be better than a smaller racquet for everyone.
     
  3. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    agree with you 110%.
     
  4. Soundbyte

    Soundbyte Semi-Pro

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    Go hold up a 100 sq. inch racket behind an 85 sq. inch pro staff. You'll notice the difference isn't that much. If you're telling me that would turn Fed's mishits into clean shots...you're crazy.

    BreakPoint is right. It has everything to do with the racket speed.

    I just hate how everyone on this forum uses the most recent match to make conclusions about a player's career or where they're headed. Thats like saying if someone has a bad serving day, I should go make a thread about how his/her serve is going downhill and will never be as good as it once was. Can you say 'hasty generalization'? It's a fallacy you know.
     
  5. godprint

    godprint New User

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    i think the only reason is, federer is just not taking his opponents seriously.

    he seems really relaxed at times... which i really don't like as it kinda makes me think that he is just too good for anyone, which isn't a healthy behavior in my opinion that is.

    but i agree, he is really too good for anyone even nadal, nadal has to give 110% while federer seems like he is giving a fraction of that effort to win points.
     
  6. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Holding up one racquet to another really doesnt tell you very much at all.
     
  7. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Uh-hum..........hummmm...............just a quick reminder:

    1. Federer just won his fifth CONSECUTIVE Wimbledon title (despite conditions that seemingly favor other players' games over his own).

    2. Federer now has 11 Grand Slam titles and shows no (REAL) signs of slowing down anytime soon. He could easily end his career with 15 GS titles, or more, shattering a record I (for one) thought would stand for a VERY long time just a few short years ago.

    3. He has been absolutely destroying the rest of the competition on the ATP Tour for years, with the exception of Nadal on the slowest of clay courts. And oh yes, frankly Nadal may well be the best clay court player of all time.

    Federer has the option of playing ANY frame he likes, including custom-made frames from ANY manufacturer. Yet he takes the time and expends the energy to play test and (help?) tweak the Wilson PS series to his liking.

    I have to shake my head at this stuff. The man is very likely THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME. He does NOT need your advice on his choice of tennis equipment. He is a human being, and not perfect. He makes errors. So do all his opponents, only TYPICALLY MANY MORE THAN HE!!!!

    By this logic, everyone else on the ATP Tour, including the butt picking Nadal, should go IMMEDIATELY and get a new frame, because obviously FedEx has continued to kick their butt with their current choice.

    :)

    CC
     
  8. AJK1

    AJK1 Hall of Fame

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    I wouldn't swap a few mishits for all the winners and aces he does.
     
  9. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Craig
    Speaking of errors, I notice your third point, about the "slowest of clay courts." What is Federer's record against Nadal on cement?
     
  10. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Who would? This is a GREAT point, because if the frame is responsible for the mishits, must it not also be responsible for the winners and aces??? ;) CC
     
  11. pow

    pow Hall of Fame

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    I second this, I went from a 98 sq. to a 93 sq. and if I swing and mishit on my 93 sq. I know that the ball would have died anyways on my 98 because even if you hit the strings off center on bigger head sizes, they will often be erratic and impossible to control if it doesn't just die on the string bed. Simply just a different form of a mishit.
     
  12. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Fed is 5-8 vs Nadal

    They've played 4x on hard court and are 2-2

    Fed is 2-0 on grass

    So that makes him 1-6 vs Nadal on Clay

    Fed is 5 years older
     
  13. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    I am guessing that it must be a losing one? ;)

    Seriously, I don't Google search every match. However, do you disagree with the remaining 98% of my post?

    Best,

    CC
     
  14. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Thanks for that Mojo! :)

    CC
     
  15. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Mongo,

    How is the BB frame treating you?

    After re-reading your post I concluded this also means that in all fairness, and to remain consistent with my own internal logic, Rafa gets to keep his current frame. ;)

    CC
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  16. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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  17. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Hey Craig,
    The Becker11 is really nice. I have a seed frame and it is heavier than target specs, so am waiting to hit a mainstream one...If it comes out to be 315 swingweight as they say, I'd be happy to switch. If not, I really like the dnx10mp I've been using, and there is always the option of having the Becker11 Lite setup to swing exactly like the dnx9's which was ideal for me just with a leather grip. I think I have the opposite problem of many TW posters...I have trouble picking amongst several frames I really like.....these frames exceed my 5.0 capacity to use them.
    Still enjoying the Mojo string setup? I had a brief stint with a teflon coated poly cross which played amazingly well....but only for about 1.5 sessions and then it crapped out on me..
    As to your own internal logic, it aint for me to say how you should parse that....;)
     
  18. jackcrawford

    jackcrawford Professional

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    Actually, many signs - looked like a last hurrah to me. Nadal a likely grand slam winner next year. It was a good run, but it's over. Can't see Fed beating Gonzalez or Budge if they had graphite frames, either; he's been lucky to have Roddick as a whipping boy. Let's not hear the modern day players are always better nonsense - Oakmont this year was set up exactly like in '53 when Hogan shot one shot better than this year's winner with persimmon woods and real irons, not titanium cavity-backs. That's about 4 shots a round disadvantage, so he really would have destroyed the field.
     
  19. jkonecne

    jkonecne Rookie

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    Every racket has a downfall. His small head may cause a number of miss hits, as any small headed racket would, but it helps him do other things better than a racket with a bigger head would. Pros and Cons.
     
  20. eldoop

    eldoop New User

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    My understanding was that a smaller headsize provided an advantage because it deformed the ball causing more topspin. And I think this can only be compensated for a little bit by changing the flex of the racquet as it has more to do with the size of the stringbed. If any of ya'll have a better understanding of the physics please chime in, but I think I am correct. Although Sampras hit his groundstrokes flatter than most pros his serves had incredible amounts of spin. Likewise, Federer can hit a forehand with as much topspin as a typical male pros kickserve. That is incredible. I also think that although it is easier to mishit using a smaller head it is also easier to handle a large amount of pace and spin with the smaller head (in terms of getting good topspin, pace, and control on your next groundstroke).

    My personal guess is that it makes little difference, but that if there is an advantage to using a larger head it goes to players who use more Western grips (unlike Fed or Sampras). Actually I think in modern times this holds pretty true, that players with more extreme grips use larger heads. The only real counterexample I can think of is Courier (perhaps Keurten or some of the clay courters of the early 90s, but I don't remember what they played with in comparison to their competitors). Also I don't know if the impact angle for a player with a western grip is substantially different than that of Federer, it might be just that it is easier to hit highballs with a western (which it definitely is).

    So what I am saying is that by switching to a larger racquet Fed would be giving up topspin. He would gain a larger sweet spot. I'm sure he has tested out larger racquets and feels he has made the best set of tradeoffs. I think most of his mishits are due to lazy footwork but I don't have proof.

    Please feel free to refute me if you have a good physical argument
     
  21. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    sure, other than removing several hundred trees from Oakmont and turning it into a links types course, narrowing undulating fairways down to nothing, making the rough impossible to negotiate, adding a whole bunch of bunkers including another church pew or so, drainage ditch hazzards, changing a par4 into a par3 <or was it a par5 to a 4..i think that was it>, adding a few hundred yards to the course, etc and etc, Oakmont somewhat resembles the Oakmont CC of 53
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  22. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Great post. Unfortunately, I just had to do it>>> I had to go back, and count all the mishits in this match. Here are the numbers:

    Errors: These include any time the player misses a shot (long/net/shank/return/etc)

    Federer: 58 backhands, 38 forehands= 96 total.
    Nadal: 52 backhands, 49 forehands= 101 total.

    Shanks
    Federer: 5 backhands, 8 forehands= 13
    Nadal: 5 backhands, 9 forehands= 14

    Hmmmm :roll:, Being that Nadal misses so many more forehands than Fed, and shanks more, should Nadal switch racquets?? Pehaps to a larger head size??

    Perhaps if he discontinued swinging with such a severe uppercut/topspin on that forehand he wouldn't shank so much???
     
  23. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    perhaps each should slow down their game and not go so big as to decrease number of shanks ? ...NOT...then winners would go down as well and where's the fun in that. :p
     
  24. baseliner87

    baseliner87 Rookie

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    ha ha ha ha
     
  25. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Mojo,

    I posted elsewhere on this forum yesterday my 'Top 5' frames, reflecting an almost three year journey through demo-land before finally settling in this spring with the K90. I too seem to like too many frames! ;) Seriously, I could play with any one of those five I listed and be a very, very happy man.

    As for the string set up I am VERY pleased. Great power, feel, AND comfort. Love it!!

    Since I am no longer demoing, I will have to live vicariously through your (and others here) experience with the BB11.

    Best,

    CC
     
  26. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Can you please elaborate? What signs of slowing down do you see? :confused: CC
     
  27. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Agreed!!!

    After all these years of developing tennis and kenetic studies, it still gets to me when people think that the racquet makes the player.

    Fed has been using this racquet all of his adult life and started with the 85 Sampras model before that. If you watch him throughout the year, you will notice that he has more mishits at the French and Wimbly, because of the errant bounces and his fast swing speeds on those surfaces. Breakpoints statements are absolutely correct, as the 95 or even a 100 sq in racquet would make not difference or cause more mishits. Adding to that is that Fed likes to take the ball on the rise, making it even more difficult to time the ball.

    However, at the AO and USO he has far less mishits as the bounce is very true which accentuates his eye hand coordination and high swing speed. This is why he looks so great that those two tourneys and a little shakey at the FO and Wimbly.

    To me all this says that we are seeing one of the greatest Tennis ball strikers to have ever played the game, so if he shanks a few then I say shank you very much (sorry I had to).

    TennezSport :cool:
     
  28. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Now that's the ticket

    Drakulie,

    Once again I like the way you post, just the facts, just the facts.

    Thanks,

    TennezSport :cool:
     
  29. Pete.Sampras.

    Pete.Sampras. Semi-Pro

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    Federer knows best! If he plays with the small head then this will give him what he wants or needs. But I admit that I have thought about a "larger headsize for Fed" a few times in the past...

    I know that I have less mishits with my K95 now than I had in the eleven years with my PS85, but I'm not Federer nor do I have his talent. With this talent, I would have probably stayed with the smaller headsize as well...
     
  30. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Craig,
    If I was still playing tourney T, I wouldnt be hitting all these diff fames either. It really can mess up your game as you know. (especially the serve). The dnx10mp is a natural for me as they come from the same tool as the Gen1 which I used for 5 years, and they come stock about the same way I had my Gen1's tricked up. The string setup is a no brainer..no reason to fool aound with that.
    You know you are dying to try the Becker11..fess up ;)
     
  31. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Right on. One of the, if not THE, greatest ball strikers of all time. CC
     
  32. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Back at you! >>I also enjoyed your posts in this thread.
     
  33. ____

    ____ Rookie

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    It's not the racquet!
    In the 70s - 80s most of the player use wood racquets with 80 - 85 sq inches head size and they still hit the ball solidly.
     
  34. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Actually, standard wood racquets were typically only around 65 sq. in. That's why the ProStaff at 85 sq. in. was considered a "Midsize" because 65 sq. in. was considered "Standard" size and a Prince at 107 sq. in. was considered "Oversize". Of course, today, an 85 is considered even smaller than "standard". :-(
     
  35. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Glad to see the silliness about folks making recommendations to Fed for a new frame is dying down................... ;) CC
     
  36. A.T.S.

    A.T.S. Semi-Pro

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    Wouldnt a larger racket head mean a heavier racket? In turn it would slow down his racket head speed that let's him produce that topspin. With his style a small racket head means greater head speed and leads to heavy topspin. So even with a larger head size he wouldnt have the speed so for topspin so he wouldnt find the court anyways.
     
  37. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Yes, so true. Too much demo=no consistency. :(

    As for the BB 11.............I don't want to demo! I don't want to demo! I don't want to demo!! I DON'T WANT TO DEMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

    CC
     
  38. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Maybe I can convince myself if I keep saying it............... ;) CC
     
  39. schadenfreude

    schadenfreude New User

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    The only reason why Nadal is coming closer to Federer is age. This is Federer's last year to dominate tennis. 25 is the "magic number" in tennis. Federer's body is simply aging-out. Nadal is younger and will only get stronger and tougher in the coming years.

    Federer will still be in the Top10 in the next 3 years (injuries excepted) but his best days are behind him, starting next season.

    I agree that Federer might want to try a different frame later on. But right now..why would he change?

    The better question is what steps does Nadal need to take to get a real threatening serve?
     
  40. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    I respectfully disagree, but only time will tell. Best, CC
     
  41. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    I disagree because I think the WAY that FedEx plays the game, he can stay VERY strongly competitive for years to come. Not only is Roger preternaturally smooth, with classic strokes that do not incorporate ballistic, joint jarring movements, he is blessed with the virtue of being a 'true' all court player. As such, Roger doesn't rely to excess on one shot, or even a particular series of shots. Thus fewer injuries, and a longer competitive career at a VERY high level. ;) CC
     
  42. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    I think it is Nadal who will be the earlier burnout agewise. He's got to go at every ball 100%, and gets in longer points than Federer. Federer seems to play typically more within himself as evidenced by pulling out bigger serves and other shots at critical times in matches...much like Sampras. Nadal will likely be more injured..I think he's already been injured as much as Fed and is 5 years younger
    I dont think Fed will ever win the French however. It's just too much of a grind, and if Nadal doesnt get him, someone else always could because, other then Nadal, there have been some real one trick ponies winning the French. He's just too vulnerable up high to his one hander
     
  43. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Well said Mongo.

    I think Fed CAN win the French Open, but agree circumstances will need to conspire in his favor.

    Best,

    CC
     
  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Nadal has the mental and physical energy to fully focus on every stroke. Other players, including Federer, tend to retreat into their comfort zone, hitting relaxed shots, till an opportunity opens up. The reason that Nadal is #2 is that other players are fundamentally lazy. They do what feels good, instead of treating every shot as an opportunity to attack. When pushed, they don't try to get to every ball. Basically, they are bigger, faster and more talented versions of club players. Mentally, they are about the same - hit a couple of good ones, then throw some easy ones into the net and make irritating sounds as if they can't believe what happened. Roddick is a prime example.

    As long as Nadal can keep this up, he will keep winning. He already pushed Fed at Wimbledon, despite playing 7 days in a row, while Fed had a 5 day break. Let us see what happens in the hard court season.
     
  45. quest01

    quest01 Hall of Fame

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    I think Federers racket is a solid racket. I know i couldnt get away with using a 90 sq inch racket consistently. I havent used the kfed racket 90 but i have used the ncode 90 and i would have to say this is the most demanding racket i ever used. I mean this racket is designed and recommended for 5.0+ players and i felt using this racket only made my game worse. I dont know why anyone would want to use a 90 sq inch racket unless your at least a 5.0
     
  46. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    I like Pete's racquet choice better haha :)

    I wonder how fast his serve was with this racquet.

    [​IMG]
     
  47. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    It wouldn't surprise me if Sampras beat Todd Martin, 7-5 using that Dunlop Maxply Fort woodie and Martin used his regular graphite racquet, especially on grass, as the PS 6.0 85 plays about as close to a wood racquet as you'll find today. ;)
     
  48. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    I viewed more pictures and it turns out Sampras only used the Dunlop in one point during the match . I can't make out what racquet Sampras is using now. The paint job doesn't look like either the nCode or the KFactor. There seems to be no red color in it or maybe it's the angle that hides the red color.

    [​IMG]
     
  49. FEDEX1

    FEDEX1 Rookie

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    ^^^i'm pretty sure its painted red its just the angle is hard to tell
     
  50. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    I recall that Flipper served within all his attempts within a few MPH's of one another when using a wood frame and his preferred Dunlop graphite of the time.
     

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