Whole grains vs. No grains

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by HunterST, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,412
    There is widespread agreement that refined, processed carbs are bad for health and fitness. However, there seems to be no consensus on whether the best approach is to eat whole grains or to simply avoid grains.

    I'm leaning toward the whole/sprouted grain camp because most of the anti-grain camp seems to be made almost solely of paleo advocates. Also, eating some healthy grains seems more sustainable.

    What do you think? Avoid grains or stick to whole grains?
     
    #1
  2. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    I think the consensus is more about the over-preponderance of refined, processed carbs in the diet.

    There is also a consensus that whole grains are better, but that does not make white rice, for example, bad but only less good.

    The idea that all grains are bad is a very speculative hypothesis.

    So fewer grains and more whole grains, but where taste is involved as a factor then why not some non wholegrain foods.

    Whole grains, I should add, are a bit of a myth at some level as well.

    The real problem with bread is that it is insufficiently proved and unproven using sourdough methods.

    Into this terrible white bread product they then add whole grains to promote it as a healthy product.

    It is not. The same is true of any number of products. So real food is the answer.

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
    #2
  3. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,412
    That's what I tend to believe as well. I try to stick to ezekiel bread because it's made from sprouted grains and very little processing.
     
    #3
  4. comeback

    comeback Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,179
    #4
  5. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,412
    #5
  6. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,949
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2014
    #6
  7. the hack

    the hack New User

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Houston Texas
    The easiest way to make money these days is to write a Diet Book. "Wheat Belly", sour Belly, Money Belly, what a bunch of B>S>. Whole grain/sprouted grain bread is great by me.
     
    #7
  8. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,334
    Location:
    Bay Area
    If I saw this post a while back I would said no way to grains. I got rid of rice and bread, etc a while ago.

    I had it in my head that pasta and bread, cereal, rice, etc. were bad and that if I ate them, I would gain a ton of weight.

    I recently bought the Starch Solution by Dr. John McDougall. I started eating bread (whole grain), potatoes, corn, rice, and vegetables. I cut out added oil completely (no olive oil or coconut oil) and all animal products. Mostly just starch and vegetables and some nuts and fruits.

    I was worried I would balloon up quickly. Its been about a week I think and I actually lost a few pounds. Started at 211 and have fluctuated down to 208- 209 area.

    His book and youtube vids talk about how we are designed for eating starch and the health benefits of doing so and all the issues with meat and dairy consumption.

    I think I am eating less calories overall though I feel full. Its a great test and its cheaper eating pancakes, potatoes, and bread.....
     
    #8
  9. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,995
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I was intrigued by your post and looked the guy up...at first I thought you were pulling a belated April Fools joke, but apparently it's for real.

    From what I'm reading, he's a vegan and his book has a bunch of recipes based around tofu.

    Anybody who tells me that tofu is a substitute for real food, I can't take seriously.

    I lean more towards the paleo side of things, but I do think that our bodies are adaptable..I think eating some whole grains in addition to plenty of vegetables and lean meats is fine.

    And then there is the argument that the human race wouldn't be where it is without grains...60% of the earths diet is grain...because it's cheap and easy to grow. How does that mean it's optimal for health? Take about a complete fallacy of an argument.
     
    #9
  10. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,334
    Location:
    Bay Area
    No Joke. Its real.

    FWIW I didnt look at the recipes. Its pretty straight forward, just eat starch and vegetables and fruits. Its been great eating this way!

    I counted after your post, and of the 102 recipes, 15 feature tofu. Most are things like tofu mayo, or non dairy sourcream, etc. Less than 15% of the recipes have tofu. And yeah Tofu is hit or miss. I like the extra firm but the silken I can't stand.

    How can you say the only reason 60% eat grains is because of the price? What supports that? And maybe its like that now but I dont see any evidence that it was always that way.

    I know some people who mostly eat rice. They will eat rice regardless of price. Its just what they eat.

    Anyhow the more I listen to this guy the more I believe him.
     
    #10
  11. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,903
    ^^ at least three published studies have shown increased risk of dementia in men over 50 who eat significant amounts of tofu. Believed to be the phytoestrogen type compounds in soy products.
     
    #11
  12. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    3,334
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Interesting. My guess is that it has more to do with b12 deficiencies but hey I am no doctor.

    Do you have a link to those studies?
     
    #12
  13. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    ... and then again it could be the formaldehyde in the foreign tofu.
     
    #13
  14. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,903
    ^^ estrogen replacement therapy also increased dementia risk, so the phytoestrogens in soy products seem more likely the issue.
     
    #14
  15. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,995
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    It's not "price", ie it's cheaper at the supermarket. People eat grains because they are the easiest form of energy to grow, that you can feed the most people per acre with. It's more effecient than vegetables, and much more than meat. They have indeed led to the massive increase in the earths population post hunter/gatherer.

    I'm saying that argument has nothing to do with with whats optimal for peoples health, though. If you want to feed the most people with the least amount of land and resources, just grow massive fields of potatoes and wheat.

    That's survival. The argument is about optimal health, not just survival.
     
    #15
  16. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Messages:
    5,743
    Is that not more or less the idea behind agriculture?
     
    #16
  17. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    4,673
    Optimal Health is like Salmon and cruciferous vegetables.. But there are limits on that for humanity. So let them have bread. The Romans quieted the masses with it - and now we do the same.
     
    #17
  18. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    Bread makes for good health and not just survival.

    Even if it is not the most nutrient dense food, if that is what is meant by optimal.

    But you now usually eat it with other stuff, hopefully good stuff.
     
    #18
  19. sjoerdklarenbeek

    sjoerdklarenbeek Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Zaandam, The Netherlands
    Unless you have some special intolerance or metabolic disorder, keep it simple and just eat your veggies and fruit, and apply variation and moderation. These common sense guidelines have been around for much longer than hypes and diet crazes.
    The most commonly made health mistakes are simple to avoid: not enough fiber, too much alcohol, smoking, too high caloric intake.

    As for carbohydrates, it makes sense to restrict the quickly digested products a little bit and throw in some of the slower ones. Eat more if you're going to burn them, eat less if you're going to be inactive or if you're getting fat.
     
    #19
  20. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    28,734
    Location:
    Brave New World
    Peanut butter.
     
    #20
  21. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,995
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    As a side note, and probably a bit TMI here, but whatever....I have never had an issue with peanuts or peanut butter all of my life...at least that I can remember.

    I recently discovered after eating a bunch of granola bars for snacks at work that peanuts..eh..make me have to buy preparation H.

    After I stopped with the granola bars, no problem.

    Last week I had some peanut butter just to see how I was with it..figured maybe it's digesting the solid peanuts...nope, next day started getting signs of the "issue" again. I guess I've developed a mild allergy/intolerance to peanuts..or maybe nuts in general. The next test is with cashews, which I love.
     
    #21
  22. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    Peanuts are not nuts. They are legumes.
     
    #22
  23. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,426
    Whole, dense (and nutrient rich) foods have been the mainstay of so many indigenous societies since time immemorial. The amount of food one can consume in relationship to the caloric intake results in a very satiated feeling and useable energy. Very sound approach IMO.
     
    #23
  24. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    The return of the starchivore.
     
    #24
  25. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Wheat Belly was written by American tennis pro Lauren Davis's father.
     
    #25
  26. comeback

    comeback Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,179
    #26
  27. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    When it comes to books about diets we need a critical bibliography - so many claims and too many believers.
     
    #27
  28. wings56

    wings56 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    809
    This just makes entirely too much sense. It's hard to replace carbohydrates with enough fat and protein to make it through an intense workout. Not to mention you'd have to eat the fat and protein much more in advance.
     
    #28
  29. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,337
    Whole grains all the time or most of the time and minimum processed (ground and bleached) grain like flour.
     
    #29
  30. comeback

    comeback Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,179
    It is different. If you are are eating healthy fats for many months it will build up your your "gas tank" to easily last you through a match. If your system is used to refined carbs for energy then that's what it will constantly need to burn. The longer you eat healthy fats, the more your body will adapt and rely on them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
    #30
  31. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,267
    Building up the 'gas tank' may have inverted commas, but the reality is that this way of talking is not based on real science.
     
    #31
  32. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Messages:
    5,743
    Experience is also a sort of reality.
     
    #32
  33. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,921
    The raw 80/10/10 camp is also against grains. There's a short book called Grain Damage I've always wanted to read that explains the dangers of grains however billions of people in the Asian world seem to do well with rice even white rice.

    I buy pasta & rice because they are economical foods that are easy to prepare.

    For sliced bread I go for 7 grain bread but it's probably not that healthy just a little healthier than white.. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
    #33

Share This Page