Who's silly idea ? Too many age divisions

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Nostradamus, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    What is this ? 18-40, above 40, above 50, above 60, and these are also broken down to 2.5 to 5.0 levels each. Is this stupidity ? They are going to have either too many teams in one division and only few teams in another. if you have 2 teams in 40 and above in 4.5 age division, then i supposed your chance of going to the playoff might be good but this is way too diluted down. :(
     
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  2. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

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    The USTA has had Adult, Senior, and Super Senior divisions for years. All they did is move the age brackets down so the Senior division starts at 40, and modify the format so that singles could be played instead of doubles only. This gives more people more opportunity to play. In my area, the 40+ division is going to be very, very popular - and a lot of the players will play both 18+ and 40+ for twice the tennis.

    What's the problem?
     
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  3. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    It'll work to some extent in California and the south... but I can't see this growing the game anywhere else. May even have the opposite effect.
     
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  4. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Are you sure ? i still see the 55 + division in there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
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  5. goober

    goober Legend

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    Same number of age divisions they just changed the cutoffs

    Previously- 18+, 50, 60, 70

    Now- 18+, 40, 55, 65
     
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  6. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    this might work, you don't see too many over 70 guys playing.:)
     
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  7. aniretake

    aniretake New User

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    My problem is as a captain and a player that now with all this age division crap most players play 40+ and we, the young ones, are left with now teams and no players ( we are a small town).
     
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  8. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    First piece of advice: list your city (no one's going to stalk you) in your profile - you might drum up some players from these boards. Use the internet to network. Depending how small your 'small town' is you might not have enough players for a league - but you can probably still set up a decent ladder and a few tournaments.

    I usually rip the USTA - but I don't see a problem with this change.
     
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  9. southend

    southend Rookie

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    Men's USTA league play

    Currently our league has two opportunities for say a 30 year old man to play: eg 2011 Adult Division in Spring with 2 singles and 3 dub format and 2011 SCTA Doubles in Fall with 3 dub format. With the reformatting, will say a 30 year old only have one playing opportunity. Up to local USTA coordinators??
     
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  10. bezerker

    bezerker New User

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    I think it's about revenue. First, we went to split adult seasons, fall and spring. Now, we're going to age splits. Here in our league at least, a 45 year old used to sign up for one adult season usta team. Now, that same person is potentially going to sign up for four.
     
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  11. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    i can sign up for over 40 and over 18 division but can't sign up for 4 leagues. who has time to play that much tennis. lol
     
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  12. goober

    goober Legend

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    Well some people do-

    I have a guy on one of my teams that played 10 teams last year. He is in his 60s and semi-retired

    40 something housewife I know played on 6 teams at the same time. I am not sure if she did that for the whole year, but that would have been 12+ teams for the year.
     
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  13. emilyhex

    emilyhex Rookie

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    I agree with the OP. I think this might work in a few select markets, but I too feel it will dilute the competition. It will be interesting to see what actually does happen. But, I hope the USTA has enough sense to go back to the old way if it doesn't work out.
     
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  14. southend

    southend Rookie

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    What about the 18 to 39 year olds --- limited to one men's and one mixed only?
    As I mentioned earlier, at least someone in that age bracket would be able to play twice -- Spring and Fall.

    And I do agree there are some real tennis holics that play multiple leagues in nearby sections so they could easily play more than four plus.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
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  15. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    I'm still a couple years under 40 and am not excited about 2013. This may be my last season of leagues for a few years.
     
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  16. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    Remember that 3.0 and 4.5 represent small fractions of the tennis players out there. 2.5 and 5.0+ are even smaller.

    You really have 75% of the people at 3.5 and 4.0 (guessing) and most people who are 4.5's will never go down and people who are 2.5/3.0 are new players who will "settle in" to 3.5 and 4.0 down the line.

    Very few people actually manipulate their scores to be a 3.0 or lower for life. Contrary to popular belief, some people actually belong in 3.0 or lower.



    It would be nice to see an under 40 bracket actually. This way any "older folk" who are playing in the "all" bracket are somewhat confident in their skill. TBH, im tired of seeing fat old ladies playing 3.5 and 4.0 involuntarily because they cannot keep up at all with the 18-25 fresh self-rated crowd. Im playing a 7.0 mix league starting up in a few weeks and they have some tough combos there.

    Several high quality 3.5 and 4.0 players aged 18-25. One is just out of high school!
     
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  17. Jack the Hack

    Jack the Hack Hall of Fame

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    What would be different for you in 2013 compared to the past 10 years of USTA League?

    Moving the senior league minimum age down from 50 to 40 should have no effect on the regular 18+ adult league. In every section I've looked at so far, the 18+ and 40+ leagues are played at different times of the year. So what's the big deal?
     
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  18. SlapShot

    SlapShot Hall of Fame

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    I'm actually feeling a little miffed by this as well. In Northern, they moved the 18+ 4.5 from Monday night to Wednesday, and Monday night is 40+ 4.5. My team is about half and half split in the age groups, and I just got an e-mail last night that we only have 6 committed to Wednesday nights, so we don't yet have a full team. Due to the fact that I'm currently in grad school and working FT, I had to rearrange my schedule as it was in order to be able to play tennis one night a week, and now I might not even have a team....a little frustrated with the compulsion to shake things up and create an extra (and frankly, mostly unneccesary) age group.
     
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  19. goober

    goober Legend

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    How many sections have you looked at? Actually I think it would vary by district not section. We are running 40+ and 18+ concurrently- southwest section.
     
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  20. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    The change makes sense for the USTA but not necessarily from a purely logic standpoint. What I mean is that the number of players who learned tennis during the Golden Age of American tennis (the 70's during the Evert, Connors and into the MacEnroe eras) is much higher than before and after those years. Thus the old system of 18 - 49 was very unevenly distributed. By putting current 40 - 54 year olds together, that "bulge" is playing each other, not a bunch of 20 year olds with Modern strokes.

    Of course one can argue (successfully) that since we are talking about NTRP divisions, this should already be compensated for and that the only reason for age divisions is to compensate for physical issues (which the old system did better since there are plenty of fit 41 year olds).
     
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  21. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Or, one might argue that the age divisions are motivated by USTA's desire to provide more playing opportunities for the segment of the population that has demand. Older people generally have more time for tennis than younger folks who are busy establishing a career and raising a family.

    The cynics amongst us might also argue that this is driven not so much by USTA's desire to serve, than by the realization of an opportunity for more revenue.

    Either way, presumably there was demand from the 40-50 crowd for more playing opportunities, and this drove the reorganization of the age brackets.
     
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  22. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Possible, though from the vantage point of 51, I can say that when I was 49 (under the old system, of course) our 18+ USTA team was mostly made up of 40 - 60 year olds, even though we could have had a bunch of 20 year olds, I suppose.
     
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  23. hcb0804

    hcb0804 Hall of Fame

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    I like it. I can play in all leagues except the over 65.
     
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  24. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    That's exactly my point... as you say, your 18+ team was mostly 40-60 yo. Under the old system, only some of those players (those 50+) would have been eligible to play a second league in addition to 18+ league. Under the new system, all those 40-60 folks can now play a second additional league.

    More playing oppportunities, and more team registration fees for USTA.
     
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  25. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    You are correct, of course, though from my way of looking at it (51), I felt that they were raising the Senior cutoff from 50 to 55, so I was only eligible for Seniors for one year before it was taken away.

    I didn't look at it as lowering it from 50 to 40, since I play with 40 year olds already, as I mentioned before.
     
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  26. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Hehe, so now you get to play with 40 year olds twice in two different leagues - in 18+ and also in 40+.

    BTW my experience is the same as yours. My 18+ team is probably 75% over 40. So we're going to field pretty much the same team in the 40+ league as we do in the 18+ league. Just means that as a team we get an extra season.
     
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  27. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    I can't find Florida's championship schedule yet. I can't imagine a null effect. Our Adult league locally is about 80-90% 40+ folks currently. I will never be convinced that all 40+ folks will play in both leagues. Regardless to concurrency or not.
     
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  28. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    The change in age brackets is unimportant.

    The big change is offering an additional opportunity for people to play singles. Now singles can be played in two leagues (18+ and 40+) instead of one.

    As I said in another thread, this is the part of the 2013 change that bothers me most.
     
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  29. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    Well perhaps to you. For me, I am going to get the opportunity to play better quality tennis at my level without having being pummeled by 20 somethings. It is a huge change for me personally.
     
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  30. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I don't understand. I mean, I guess I understand if you play singles, as age can be a big advantage for the younger player.

    In doubles, I do not believe age matters much. I don't tend to lose to 20-somethings. If they are on the doubles court with me, their advantages in speed/fitness are often offset by issues of control.

    Besides, there simply aren't many women aged 20-35 in the league. They have young kids, limited time, limited money. And the ones who played in college don't wind up at 3.5/4.0.
     
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  31. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    ^^^It may be different for you. I can tell you without a doubt that in my area the adult 4.0s are MUCH better than the senior 4.0s.
     
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  32. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Are you male or female?

    This year, I played 4.0 seniors and 4.0 adult. It the first year I played both.

    I didn't see much difference in the level of play between the two. The older ladies may be slower,but they make up for that with consistency, touch and net play.
     
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  33. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    I'm a dude. Big difference on the men's side in my area IMO. Adult 4.0 is much more athletic and fast paced. Senior 4.0, not so much.
     
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  34. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, that explains it.

    I do much better against older 4.0 guys in mixed than the younger 4.0. The BHs of the younger guys are sometimes a weakness, but I can't get the ball to their BH so it doesn't matter.
     
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  35. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I know what you mean. There are some older guys at our club that I can play in doubles and the match is competitive. If I played them in singles, I'd crush them. It is probably a 0.5 drop in NTRP going from doubles to singles for them.
     
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  36. goober

    goober Legend

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    In doubles I would say there is not that much of a difference. A lot of the best dubs players were 40+ in the prior system. In singles there is a big drop off from adult to 40+.
     
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  37. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I know a mid-age chick who was proud of the fact that she played on six teams as we were sitting in the hot-tub--her nursing an injured wrist. But, about the toughest thing she has to do all day is her nails.

    (I'm still amazed that anyone with the internet name of NOSTRADAMUS has to ask any questions???)--maybe they're rhetorical.
     
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