Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by rayoflight110, Sep 12, 2011.
I can just imagine the awkwardness that would ensue by saying "wanna see my Fed Express?" :lol:
Brings new meaning to the saying "just practising my backhand". :lol:
Why am I doing this. :roll: Last post for sure.
I didn't realize you needed a fact based thesis. You certainly provided only your opinion and a couple of anecdotes. I am pretty conversant with Rafa's career so I do have pretty good knowledge of his immense popularity around the world, plus I have been connected to the sporting world for probably more years than you have been alive so I provided some anecdotal evidence too. However, you simply dismissed my commentary.
Are you saying Federer was flamed? That's completely untrue. Nobody was flaming him or dismissing him. Some were simply pointing out that there are other tennis players who are immensely popular too. And there you go with the insults again. I can only speak for myself but, believe it or not, I do have a very very good idea of the global popularity of athletes outside their own country. There was no need for you to put others down and dismiss their contributions to the discussion.
No, your reading comprehension leaves a bit to be desired. In my post about Rafa's popularity I acknowledged that Roger, of course, was immensely popular too. And you didn't denigrate Nadal? Do these words sound familiar? "the young, hairless body, grunty, sweaty persona which Nadal portrays." They're yours and you certainly weren't complimenting him there.
"Nadal is not even close. He wouldn't even be in the top 20 of well-known current sportpeople globally" - your words again.
"If you factor out the under 25, mostly male tennis playing population who make up about 2% of the world and you lose half of Nadal's global recognition." - your words again, and so not true.
"Nadal gear is limited to sub 25s or 30-somethings with no style" - your words again, this time with more insults and condescension, and again not true.
We'll see if next year Rafa gets even higher on the Forbes list and closer to Roger. He's won more than twice as much money as Roger this year and has signed some lucrative new deals. Rafa's image is on billboards and the sides of buses around the world and in a zillion magazines. His book has been translated into 16 languages and is a world wide best seller. Yeah, I think his global recognition and fame is big and is only going to go up.
I am amazed how every post ends up being a ******* contest between fans of Rafa and Roger... in awe...
Anyways... I was going to say that today, I'd mos def pick Roger and Rafa as the most famous. Hell, they're know by people that can't tell a tennis ball from an egg.
BUT overall... I am hesitant... Mac, Borg, Connors, Steffi, Agassi was rockstar FCOL, Navratilova, Pete, Chris Evert, Nastase, Laver... I give up
+1 on Bob Carmichael.
Are you guys talking worldwide, among all age groups?
I think of Federer when I think of tennis....but what do I know? I am middle-aged and I have a 1 handed bh.
If just taking into account adults in the English-speaking world, I think Fed, by far. Agassi and Mac have to be the biggest names in history, followed by Connors, Borg and Laver. But over the past few years, RF is the most famous.
If you include 14 and unders, I think Rafa gains some ground. Have you seen the number of yellow Babolats at any given jr tournament? IT's astonishing. If you include the rest of the world, Rafa gains a lot of ground.
I think people like Djoker, too. Just not so much on this forum.
Roddick is big in America, especially in the flyover states.
Wait until Tsonga wins a slam or two. He will he huge. Big Q rating. Great look. Universal appeal. Nice, friendly kid.
Women's tennis is on the radar, too, thanks to the Sisters, Sharapova and their respective management entities.
Rene LaCoste (though most people who wear his clothes have no idea who he was.)
Should put in Anna Kournikova since she is on US television now.
Then probably Maria Sharapova or Li Na.
Most likely the same reason that you think Nadal is a bigger star globally than Federer.
You don't, but something of substance would be good - it's how people debate things generally. That is why I added some quasi examples of popularity.
There is little chance of that.
Your anecdotal evidence basically entailed: I think so, so it's true.
And yet you've demonstrated clearly that you don't have a good idea of the relative popularity globally of these two.
And? I didn't say anywhere that either of them was or wasn't hugely popular exclusive of the other. They are both hugely popular on a global scale, only a fool would claim otherwise. But Federer is much, much bigger in that respect. That was the point. One which a select minority don't seem to believe.
They're all apt and accurate descriptions of him. I didn't say clay bunny, ass picker etc. - that would have been denigrating him.
So, you claim I have comprehension problems and then you display it yourself. I didn't say anywhere he wasn't a huge star. I said he wasn't in the top 20. And, it's pretty obvious to most judging by his clothing range that the target market for him is under 25s.
Oh course he will as Federer's competitiveness wanes. That's a no-brainer. How much money he wins however is barely a blip on the radar in terms of current global popularity. The sort of popularity that Woods, Bolt, Federer have takes years to grow. It's why there is no doubt Nadal isn't in Federer's league yet. The lag of global awareness on achievements, how often they are achieved and the total timeframe make all the difference.
I have no doubt at all that is true.
All-time is a tough one. For men, probably Agassi, McEnroe, Borg or Sampras. A lot of baby boomers would have heard of Borg and McEnroe before falling away from tennis in the 1980s.
Of current players, Federer by a mile.
If I were to go by people I know, I'd say 80% don't know the names of any active male players, 18% have heard only of Federer, 1.5% have heard of only Federer and Nadal, 0.5% have heard of more.
Hell, 80% is likely an underestimate.
Female players are probably a little more famous actually. I imagine most people at least vaguely know of the Williams sisters and Anna Kournikova (for all the right reasons, too!).
Federer by a country mile
Except Roger ends up winning by a a lot... A few insecure rafa fans will make it sound like a ********* contest
So, Nadal fans are claiming that Nadal is more famous than Federer!!
Whats next, Nadal is more elegant than Federer? :lol:
Only the extreme *******s are proclaiming this bs. Most people know that he is not nearly as popular as Roger.
Is this a trick question?
Roger Federer obviously..
I think Federer, Nadal and Sharapova, although I don't know exactly what famous is supposed to mean.
Is there someone who heard of Federer but never heard of Nadal? I kind of doubt it.
The number of "likes" on their facebook pages are pretty close and I think Federer started his one earlier.
There is a difference in the way their image is being marketed to the public. Federer will always attract people with money due to his elegant image, the fact that he speaks several languages fluently, the fact that he's from Switzerland (a neutral country) and the fact that he's considered the best player ever. Even the fact that he's got a family helps. Basically, he's got a perfect image. I can't think of one single thing that could make him look bad.
Despite this fact I don't think there's a big difference in popularity. If you think about it, it's quite astonishing what Rafa has managed to achieve considering the fact that his English is bad and he keeps pulling at the back of his shorts all the time.
Mohammed Ghareeb. I've seen him play with my own eyes. pity he hasn't won any slams yet.
Yep, you nailed it there. These things, especially the family thing, make a big difference to companies when they make a shortlist of who to approach for long-term global endorsement deals.
Currently I'd say Federer, whenever I bore people to death with tennis talk they all know who he is.
Of all time though it's got to be John McEnroe.
Nobody who doesn't watch the Grand Slams (and not many people do) has any idea who Novak Djokovic is.
Also, no way is Nadal ahead of Borg, Agassi or McEnroe. Nadal is only slightly more known than Djokovic. Even Federer isn't really all that famous. Tennis is a marginal, inconsequential sport, unfortunately. At least Borg and McEnroe had the advantage of being stars when the sport was more popular than American football, which is very hard to believe these days.
The women have an advantage due to modeling. Almost every male I know (most of whom cannot name Roger Federer), knows who Anna Kournikova is, and they might know Sharapova and Ivanovic, too. Everyone knows the Williams sisters.
In the World (not in US) tennis is a huge sport and almost everyone who has some knowledge of sports can name Federer and Nadal (At least in Europe, not sure of Asia). In europe they are the biggest sport celebrities after some football players.
I don't think underwear/camel-toe shots constitutes modelling. I do agree though, there has been a massive rise in use of athletes in cosmetics and fashion marketing for sure. If they're good looking enough (or can be made to) they will generally have an advantage in that they can be marketed as an aspirational achiever rather than just being pretty looking.
You're American I'm guessing. I'll let you in on a little known fact: outside of North America about 1% of the world could name any American football player. I had a pub quiz question only last week where we had to list ten current players (any wrong answer ends your list - they have to be consecutive). Our team of 6 die-hard sports fans only got 1 and in a pub of over 100 people the biggest list was 3. (I even thought Tom Brady was African American until they showed pictures of some players - I think I had him mixed up with Wayne Brady lol)
Globally, ten times more people could name a current top tennis player than a top American football player. What has changed since the 1980s is not the popularity of the sports per se but the way sport is broadcast by the mostly American dominated media. Syndicated TV news channels which are available with pretty much every pay-TV system in the world (CNN, Fox, CBS, CNBC etc) have made, locally, American football players superstars of epic proportions, following basketball's lead in some ways. But most of the rest of the world is oblivious. That's why you rarely ever see global marketing using American football players - they're basically anonymous outside the USA. I can't even think of one example.
While I agree that tennis is minuscule compared to say football (soccer) Federer is sole male player who has really bust outside the tennis bubble of influence since the 1990s. You can go anywhere in the world - even places like Cambodia where they're drinking muddy water out of ditches and barely have more than a few dozen properly paved roads and see marketing with Federer on it. (I was there recently and saw a billboard with him on it. Should have taken a photo - it was for Credit Suisse).
Same poll in a US pub, name 10 soccer/football players. Forgetaboutit.
name Leo Messi
related to Mark Messi?
For sure.. I have no doubt that'd be the case.
The US population comprises only 4.5% of the world's population but a disproportionately large percentage of that population thinks what they think is the world view - moreso than any other high population country.
It is a combination of the wide variability in the quality of education, the media make-up and the centre of the world position America holds in many respects (business, finance, entertainment etc) which means the population is generally less worldly on average than those from most other countries.
Always made it tough to explain Shinny, Skittles, or even Poutine.
OK, I know what Skittles are... and Poutine, but only because I met a Canadian recently who made it for dinner (and an awesome dinner at that).
Just Hockey. Nuff tennis courts and nets are sacrificed locally for that game.
This really made me laugh.
Imagine Wayne Brady being Tom Brady on "Whose line is it Anyway?"
When Bobby Jr. mentioned Wayne Brady, first thought of Wayne Rooney. See Wayne Brady daily now.
And most of them dont even know what a top spin is btw
Separate names with a comma.