why can federer read roddick's serve

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by roddickfan90, Mar 3, 2009.

  1. roddickfan90

    roddickfan90 Banned

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    is it because of the ball toss, or is it because hes just blessed with good reactions.

    I think it could be due to roddicks body language, because i heard agassi saying that becker allways stuck his tounge in the direction he wanted his serve to go.
     
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  2. ajs72us

    ajs72us New User

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    Roddick has tells

    Roddick has two different motions for his wide and down the middle serve. If he goes up the T his knee bend is not so extreme. When he goes out wide on either side he has a extreme knee bend. Watch for it it is pretty obvious.
     
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  3. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    roddick's angles are not very good, but just purely fast.
    so federer's fast reaction can counter his serve speed.
     
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  4. Michael Bluth

    Michael Bluth Semi-Pro

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    Now, against a lot of guys his serve is too fast much of the time for it to matter whether or not they know where it's going, but Fed has the reflexes to return better than most.
     
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  5. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    Its obvious to the viewer but a little harder for the actual player, so its impressive his reaction is still so good
     
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  6. roddickfan90

    roddickfan90 Banned

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    i understand, but roddick hit 30 aces against agassi in queens and cincy, and agassi was probably the greatest returner ever with excellent reactions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
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  7. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

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    Yes, but he went after the return more than anyone, meaning he was going to get aced a lot anyway. He got aced 17 times by Nadal back in 2006.
     
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  8. tintin

    tintin Professional

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    add Murray on the list 2
     
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  9. jmverdugo

    jmverdugo Hall of Fame

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    I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Fed is not trying to hit back , he is just blocking back so he doesnt require that much time to prepare himself or to put in position.
     
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  10. iamke55

    iamke55 Professional

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    Roddick doesn't hit a lot of aces because of his variety. He likes to keep people guessing by hitting the body serve often, something Federer can't do because he doesn't have the speed or placement to do it. That's why Federer aims for the corners on every serve.
     
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  11. dwhiteside

    dwhiteside Semi-Pro

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    Roddick has more placement ability than Federer? Federer doesn't have enough placement to serve to the body? Gonna go ahead and disagree with that.

    Although to your credit that's a comment slightly less absurd than the one a while ago where you said Agassi was a poor returner.
     
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  12. burosky

    burosky Professional

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    If this is pretty obvious why am I not seeing Roddick's opponents moving towards the T or the sides as soon as he makes his knee bend when they return his serve? You would think they would move as soon as possible to have more time to prepare.
     
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  13. Bottle Rocket

    Bottle Rocket Hall of Fame

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    Compared with who? Karlovic?

    He doesn't hit a lot of aces because of his variety, but he keeps people guessing? That's impressive.

    Federer can't hit body serves because he doesn't have the speed or placement?

    Ok guys, let me make sure I've got this right. Roddick can't hit angles and he doesn't hit a lot of aces, but he does hit body serves well. Federer, on the other hand, has no accuracy, so he is incapable of hitting a body serve. Instead, he aims for the corners? Then, because of his lack of accuracy, happens to consistently rank highly in the ace count every year?

    "American Andy Roddick, a member of the 1,000 aces club, finished second behind Karlovic (in 2008) with 889 aces in 62 matches. Roddick led the circuit with 1,017 aces in 2004 and 912 in 2005, and was No. 3 the past two years."

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/1/en/2008news/ace_leaders.asp

    Check the above links for more stats, including Federer's.

    I wish I knew how you guys come up with such complete nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
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  14. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    Pretty much epic fail all around by iamke55. I can see how he would be dense enough to say Agassi didnt return well. Roddick DOES hit a lot of aces, and its NOT because of variety. He gets aces by sheer brute power. Fed gets aces with variety and placement.
     
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  15. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

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    I think it's a combination of Federer's reflex and as someone earlier mentioned him just putting his racket on the ball rather than going for an outright shot, Fed's timing, and most importantly, the fact that they've played som any times (almost 20 if not more).

    The more times to you play someone the better you can pick up their habits/actions. Fed is smart enough to pick up Roddick's movement on certain types of serves. By contrast, people are not able to read Fed very easily because Fed keeps his toss and body movement almost indistinguishable between any type of serve.
     
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  16. Luke5192

    Luke5192 New User

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    because he's federer
     
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  17. mixertefera

    mixertefera Rookie

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    best post sofar and also all of you that think his placement is not good then you need to watch some more of his machts and think is that was 120ish would it have been a ace.

    i think why alot of people think it's just brute power is cuse he dose gets some aces thoghe just pace and thats all they see
     
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  18. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Ask Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray that same question. It's not only Federer that can read Roddick's serve.
     
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  19. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Who cannot?
     
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  20. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

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    Arguably, Federer reads it better than any of them.

    Nadal only leads Roddick 4-2, with Djoker it is 2-2 and Murray it is 6-2. Federer leads 16-2, and has had far less trouble with him than the other three. Is it beyond you to admit that Nadal isn't better than everyone in all areas?
     
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  21. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

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    Nadal can't read roddick's serve. He always struggle to get Roddick's serve back into play. The first match they met, Nadal was completely blown away by Roddick's serve alone. Djokovic and Murray can read Roddick's serve pretty well, but nowhere as good as Roger. Roger is the best at handling Roddick's serve.
     
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  22. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    What do you mean "only"? According to your numbers, Roddick has beaten all of them "only" twice, so what's the difference? Of course Federer has played Roddick many more times but that's because he (like Roddick) is 5 or 6 years older than Nadal, Djoko and Murray.
     
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  23. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

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    What are you struggling to comprehend? Of course there is a difference. I am saying that out of 6 matches with Nadal, Roddick already has two wins. He has the same number of wins from 18 matches with Roger. This indicates that Roger has far less trouble putting Roddick away. I have never seen Roger totally overpowered (i.e. served off the court) by Roddick, but that seemed to be the case in Dubai last year for Rafa.
     
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  24. VivalaVida

    VivalaVida Banned

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    dont even go towards the win in Dubai. Nadal tards will bring out the excuses.
     
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  25. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Ok, then why isn't every Pro out there able to read Roddick's serve ? Guys like James Blake looks clueless out there.
     
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  26. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    And I'm saying that all the players you've mentioned lost 2 matches to Roddick, so how does that prove that some are struggling against Roddick and some are not? When Roddick wins a third match vs the top 3 then maybe you'll have a point.
     
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  27. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

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    Yes, A-Rod has won the same ammount of matches against all of them, but from a smaller pool of matches.

    If a team starts the season 4-2 from 6 games, is that record just as good as a team who have gone 16-2 from 18 matches?
     
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  28. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Why? It was fair and square. Roddick played his best tournament of the year at Dubai 2008 and his best tennis in the following month. He beat Nadal and Djoko to win the title and proceeded to beat Federer in the quarters of Miami master. The only thing that proves is when Roddick plays his best on hard court neither Nadal, nor Djoko, nor Fed can beat him (in best of 3 at least). Too bad he doesn't play his best more often!
     
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  29. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

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    Nonsense. Roddick has played great against Federer at the Masters Cup many times and lost. It proves that they didn't play well enough to beat him on that day.
     
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  30. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    It is not Murray, Nadal or Djokovic's fault if they are 5 or 6 years younger than Federer and Roddick, of course they haven't met as often! "2" is not a high enough number to draw conclusions from it regardless of number of times played especially when Roddick is still clearly LOSING the head to head vs all of them (except for Djoko). Gee, It's like talking to deaf people!
     
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  31. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    It's always a combination of both: player A played great, player B played worse, so what? You still don't have a point + saying that doesn't explain why the top 3 players lost to Roddick within a 2 month period. Saying that Roddick was in great shape does.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
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  32. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

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    Of course it isn't their fault, but it took Federer "5-6 years" to lose two matches to Roddick, where as it has taken far less time for the others to lost two a piece. It is a big enough number to draw a conclusion from. I resent that comment as well. We have a difference in opinion, that is all. Do you come here every day for people to agree with you? It is clear you like to see yourself as some sort of wise oracle, but really, you are just a slightly less subjective version of Nadal_Freak, with a slightly less offensive posting style.

    And you have a point claiming that Roddick is too good on hardcourts for the big 4, when he is "on." That simply isn't true.
     
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  33. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Hey I agree to disagree, no problem. I'm sorry that I don't find losing 1 match to Roddick vs 2 very significant. I am not disputing the fact that Federer "owns" Roddick, not at all. I'm just saying the other guys you mentioned might end up owning him too, they just haven't played often enough for that to be clear yet.
     
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  34. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Why? Because you said so? Did he or did he not beat Nadal, Djokovic and Federer in February-March 2008? That's a fact, not an opinion!
     
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  35. tintin

    tintin Professional

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    what a load of horse manure this part.USO 2007 comes to mind and look what happend to Roddick.Went down in straight sets and he was playing out of his mind during the mind so don't give me that **** :roll:
     
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  36. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Blah blah. They all own Roddick. Federer doesn't do anything more then them. It just happens Fed played Roddick more in his prime then the others.
     
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  37. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Maybe Fed 2008 wasn't exactly the same as Fed 2007 or Roddick can't do in best of 5 what he did in best of 3. I don't know, I don't have an interpretation ready, I just gave a FACT.
     
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  38. Beasty54

    Beasty54 Rookie

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    If you watched this match, Fed also played at an impeccibly high level. If he would have played like he did in the final, in that match, it would have been totally different.
     
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  39. FD3S

    FD3S Professional

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    "Blah blah?" Djokovic and Roddick are 2-2, and a 4-2 lead by Nadal is hardly domination. Federer's returns of Roddick's serve are by far the best of the four. To look at your favorite player, Nadal has NEVER had an easy time with Roddick's serve the way Federer does (well, outside of the US Open, and even then he returns it pretty well in comparison.)
     
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  40. Tempest344

    Tempest344 Professional

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    because he is federer
     
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  41. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    my sentiment too. roddick's serves are somewhat predictable. still works well just enough for 99% of players on faster surfaces excepts, say, top 5 players in the world. that's why he is at #6, so to speak.
     
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  42. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    That US Open shouldn't count. That was prime Roddick against a 17 year old Nadal. So it is 4-1 Nadal after that. Murray also was playing Roddick before he became a top 5 player. Federer got to play Roddick from the start of his prime. He still lost 2 times and almost lost 3 times. Roddick just doesn't do well against the top players in the world. His game is too one-dimensional.
     
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  43. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal's win at Queens shouldn't count because Roddick was just coming off a rotator cuff injury and wasn;t ready and he barley lost. so its 3-1 Nadal. Nadal isn't good at reading Roddicks serve. There's no need to troll here. Let the flaming begin
     
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  44. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Lol. Look at Indian Wells then. Nadal was on fire and the announcers were saying how the conditions should benefit Roddick. The only real match to show evidence that Nadal struggled against Roddick was Dubai 2008. That was a lightning fast court btw. The courts in Madrid in 2008 Davis Cup were clay but very fast due to the elevation. Once again, no problems for Nadal to break Roddick. Roddick's serve just isn't as good as hyped to be. The rest of his game also seems to let him down in most big matches.
     
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  45. federerdomination

    federerdomination Semi-Pro

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    Stop making excuses.

    So should Nadal's win over Fed in the AO not count too because Fed is out of his prime? Using ur logic, no.

    And let's analyze this mathematically. He lost 2 times out of 18 total times. That means Fed is winning against roddick over 88% of the time. Even using ur own 4-1 H2H statistic for Nadal's wins over roddick, that's only a 80% winning percentage.

    The "almost" losses shouldn't count because once again, should we start considering the times Fed has almost beaten Nadal (i.e. Wimbledon 2008) and start removing those from their overall H2H? I think not. A loss is a loss.
     
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  46. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Henman owns Federer then. Look all the times Henman and Hrbaty beat Federer. Why does Fed struggle so much against them? That's about as worthy of a match as the Nadal/Roddick match of 2003 indicates.
     
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  47. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    People forget Agassi was very, very, very easy to ace.
     
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  48. T1000

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    two of Nadal's four wins were on clay, and Roddick is horrible on clay. We all know Nadal can't be beat on clay unless he's in a wheel chair (he'd probably beat most anyway) Those two wins really didn't show how good Nadal was at returning his serve. I will say Nadal did a good job at Indian Wells. He broke three times in that match, but was still aced 16 times. Federer dominates Roddick. Nadal's two wins on surfaces OTHER than clay show he doesn't dominate Roddick like Federer does
     
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  49. federerdomination

    federerdomination Semi-Pro

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    actually, for ur information, Fed has a WINNING H2H against Henman (7-6)
    here's proof
    http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/...ad/default.asp?player1=federer&player2=henman

    And Fed + Hrbaty played 3 times with fed winning 33% of the times which is better than Roddick does against both Fed and Nadal.

    And all of Henman's wins against Fed are significant - whether he was young or not.
     
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  50. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    that time Agassi is already near the end of his career. what do u expect?
     
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