Why do people hybrid with gut in the mains

Discussion in 'Strings' started by puck1230, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    9,190
    Why are you so committed to get people to use Gut/Alu. You obviously like it, well good for you. I like RIP Control even though a lot of people hate it. If I don't like poly in my frame then I don't like poly in my frame. Simple as that. I tried a few polys. Didn't see the benefit, didn't like the stiffer feeling, definitely didn't like the dead sensation after a few hours. So I'm going to stop using poly.

    If I miss or make a shot, it's not because I have poly in my frame, it's because of my technique.

    If pros know what's best, then how come some pros don't even use gut in their frames? After all, isn't gut the "best" string you can get? Maybe it's because they don't like gut for their own specific reasons. I just don't like a certain kind of strings.

    I'm not speculating about about gut/Alu, I'm speculating about putting any poly in the cross. Read my posts and when did I single out Alu? Read carefully before you run your mouth.
     
    #51
  2. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    485
    Just out of curiosity, have you tried gut/Alu though? Because I hate many other polys my crosses as well because they feel very stiff and plastic.
     
    #52
  3. catfish

    catfish Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    792
    I agree with you the spin really messes up women players in particular. They tend to hit flatter balls at all levels, so you throw in some slices and heavy topspin and it can really throw off their timing. I think the hardest thing about playing mixed doubles for women is adjusting to the heavier spin that men generate. It's not necessarily the pace, but the spin.

    Back to the topic..........I have not tried the KB Proline, but I tried KB Touch Turbo a few years ago and found it a pretty arm friendly poly.

    I string my own racquets so I experiment with string occasionally, but always go back to full gut. The people that say that full gut has too much power are usually men. So female to female, I suggest you try a full gut just to see what results you get. It sounds like you're not a string breaker, so you'd probably get several months out of a full gut string job. Klip Legend is a nice natural gut and it only costs $26/pack. I've tried gut mains with poly crosses and balls fly on me. I feel like I lose control and spin. I have tried some stiff synthetics in the crosses, like Rip Control, and I get better results. But the Rip Control goes dead way before the gut mains. So I end up going back to full gut.

    My husband does not like full gut. He also says it has too much power. He uses Technifibre Black Code 18 in the mains and experiments with different crosses. He likes Rip Control, but finds the poly/Rip Control hybrid too hard on the arm, even at lower tension. He has also tried Black Code mains and gut crosses. He liked the combination but commented that if he didn't use string savers, the Black Code would saw into the gut and break it prematurely.
     
    #53
  4. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    I am really tempted to try some gut mains since I have some ALU power sitting in a mini reel at my place. It's like $30 a set though..which gut is most resistant to the florida humidity?
     
    #54
  5. olliess

    olliess Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    572
    I thought the entire mini reel was going for like $30?
     
    #55
  6. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Sorry I meant a pack of gut.

    What do you folks lube the strings with?
     
    #56
  7. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    19,671
    Location:
    Central Florida

    The Wilson gut did just fine for me as a full job. Of course, this is the coolest month of the year.
     
    #57
  8. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    I'm buying some gut today and doing a poly hybrid. It will be epic.
     
    #58
  9. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    9,190
    No and doubt I will. It's still a poly and it'll lose tension way too fast for it to be worthwhile for me. Unless you can tell me I can get the same playability if I were to play every other day, for at least 7 sessions, then no thanks.
     
    #59
  10. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,592
    Location:
    Baseline
    Yes, it can at higher tensions. I tried it at mid to upper 50s and had problems. So far no issues at high 40s. 50-52 seems to be the limit. Played last night with some guys far more experienced and skilled than I am. No complaints and my frame was strung three weeks ago per signature. Have about 16+ hours of hitting with these strings.

    Haven't tried cutting crosses out. Will ask the stringer to try that next time. Should I change the reference tension in light of the older gut?

    CoFocus just doesn't die, at least as a cross! We have a few frames around the house with VS/CoFocus that were strung last summer. Still feel great!
     
    #60
  11. pennc94

    pennc94 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    756
    Location:
    Maryland
    9 months? For someone who plays 86 league matches in a year and probably numerous other matches/drills throughout the year, that seems too infrequent. Don't be hurt, but you should not be offering advice to your friend about re-stringing.
     
    #61
  12. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,592
    Location:
    Baseline
    My wife, son, and I use VS mains and, throwing caution to the wind, the three of us hit on Sunday morning when it was misty and the courts were damp. We rotated balls by drying them in our pockets!

    All of the strings seem to have survived just fine, even mine which are worn down to a light gray color in the sweet spot and starting to fray. Hit last night and the strings were great. I hit a gravity bending forehand that sort of looked like a sideways moonball. It went cross court and somewhere over the alley it reversed direction and came back between the singles sideline and center line. I received many kudos for that shot. :)
     
    #62
  13. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    19,671
    Location:
    Central Florida

    So far, it is a tossup between full Wilson gut versus B5E mains with Unifibre gut crosses as my GOAT setup. The Unifibre mains/B5E crosses was nice but I thought that it would be my favorite and it was not. The 3 sets it lasted kind of ticked me off too. :evil:
     
    #63
  14. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,832
    Location:
    New York City
    Did you catch wind of the thread title here? The OP asked a question; I'm answering it. I couldn't care less what other people use as long as they're read up on what's available.

    Who claimed otherwise?

    But the common factor is the poly. You claimed there are no advantages to poly in the cross and gut in the mains. How could you know this?

    You're speaking about a subject you know nothing about. Who wants advice from someone who's ignorant on the subject in discussion? Feel free to speculate but don't be surprised when people who actually have experience in this area give you flak for it.
     
    #64
  15. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    That is awesome. I will definitely try some then and match it up against the ALU power I have now. I have VS Touch gut that I just got so that will go in tonight before I hit.

    Cutting the crosses out is controversial. Some say it will ruin your stick..I just did it, and you HAVE to mount the racquet and secure it before you cut them. I doubt a stringer will do it for you because of this, but if you ever start stringing your own and get real good with your machine, it is something to look into.
     
    #65
  16. catfish

    catfish Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    792
    I have cut out the crosses. But I cut them out after I had mounted and secured the racquet on the machine.....like you did. I did not have any problems.
     
    #66
  17. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    9,190
    My god, alright man. Keep fighting a war that no one really cares. I'm not bashing polys, especially not Alu. It's heavily popular and there must be a reason. I'm just saying I don't like them and prefer an alternative.

    You keep asking me why I claim there are no advantages to poly crosses and gut mains, and you doubt I have ever used them. If you read carefully, I have used polys in the cross before, and I didn't like it. And yeah, I saw no benefit in putting poly in the cross. Why is my personal preference so difficult for you to comprehend? Yeah, I haven't used Alu, but I'm already saying I do not like the characteristics of polys. So therefore, I will not invest the time and money to try polys.

    Maybe you found your holy grail, but you can't expect people to like it just because you like it. Or maybe you just like to argue.
     
    #67
  18. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,832
    Location:
    New York City
    I didn't turn this into an argument. I decided to chime in, over you, because you've never tried gut mains and poly crosses and I have done it extensively. I think you got rather defensive.

    For the record I don't even play with a poly, but I'm considering switching back. I.e., this isn't necessarily my holy grail. I've been playing with all gut.

    My point was to set the record straight: there are definite advantages to the gut/poly setup. You seemed to want to fight it.
     
    #68
  19. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    ^^^

    He actually said he did try poly crosses and did not like it.


    But anyway, I will hit with the VSTouch/ALU combo tonight and see how it goes. I feel like this setup could be perfect in a wilson stick since they hit pretty stiff.
     
    #69
  20. J_aces

    J_aces Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    648
    Has anyone used both global and a high quality gut as mains and is there a big difference. I really don't like global mains and I have a set of pacific tough gut but am reluctant to use it. I prefer a stiffer feel and tough gut may help
     
    #70
  21. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,620
    Go for it.

    Global sucks, and that's the truth.
     
    #71
  22. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Yes please stay away from poly, especially if you are on the other side of the court.
     
    #72
  23. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    You've had the PL II in there for 9 months without restringing?
     
    #73
  24. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    Don't worry, I'm not hurt.

    I used to string every 6-8 weeks when I was using things like Spiky Shark, Wilson Sensation, Luxilon. My pro suggested I try the gut hybrid, saying I would not have to string as frequently. There are varied opinions on this, but some people believe you can play a gut hybrid until the gut breaks.

    When I first started using the gut hybrid, I would get one or two areas of fraying at about four months. I would continue to use the rackets, partly because I wanted to see what it felt like to break a string and partly because I am cheap.

    What I noticed was that I didn't feel much or any difference when I would get the re-strung racket back. So I figured if I couldn't tell the difference between a gut hybrid that was about to break and one that was newly strung, why cut the strings out before the gut broke?

    The funny thing is that I hit with more spin now, but I still don't break strings. I re-strung before sectionals in August, and before that in January. My strings had none of those frayed spots. I don't know my strings would be lasting longer (or more accurately, fraying less). I am using Babolat Versus, which is more expensive than the gut I used to use. Maybe that's it?

    Anyway, Catfish . . .

    I have sent one of my two rackets to be strung with gut. I figure I might as well give this a shot. It will at least answer the question of whether gut is better for me. If my elbow does or doesn't feel better, that will be good information to have. I will have my second racket with hybrid for comparison.

    Fun fact: I'm going to play a dubs tournament in Colorado soon. I would imagine the ball will fly on me. Perhaps the gut will give me more top and help me keep the ball on the court?
     
    #74
  25. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2011
    Messages:
    463
    Have a VS/CoFocus setup in one of my EXO3 tours. Been in for 5 hours and playing as it did after stringing. I think I've found my go to setup. Was playing a BHBR cross before but was cutting out up to 4 sets of crosses to one VS main. If CoFocus lasts as well as it is claimed, I will be very, very happy.

    The spin generation is very good, the touch superb and the power of the gut is tamed by the poly cross - can't think of a better around setup.
     
    #75
  26. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    661
    I did not fare as well, I played the other day in damp conditions with a two-week old string job that still looked unblemished. Gut mains started deteriorating fairly quickly and broke in the 3rd set.

    Strung it up again with the same set up and played on dry courts but very damp cool evening air, after a couple of sets they already started to fray.

    No more VS in damp conditions for me, it can't take it and it's too expensive if I don't get at least two weeks. The Klip gut mains in another frame seemed to be less affected by the dampness in the air.
     
    #76
  27. catfish

    catfish Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    792
    Let me know what you think of the full gut. I converted some of my tennis friends to using gut, mostly women. They all are glad they switched.

    Remember that gut takes a little "breaking in". It may feel a little stiff at first, but after a couple of hours of use it will settle in and give that great gut feel. Nothing else compares. Sometimes I experiment, but I always go back to full gut.
     
    #77
  28. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    485
    Well, for me, poly going dead in crosses had never been a problem as my gut main always break before that happens. Yea it should last 7 sessions if you keep the mains lubricated. Oh go with alu smooth for extra durability.
     
    #78
  29. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    OK, I did a clinic for two hours with a new gut job. I string at 57, which was the mid-point of the recommended tension on the gut package. I couldn't remember what you guys had recommended, and I didn't have time to figure it out.

    Anyway, the jury is still out. It's certainly not horrible. It makes a huge sound when you hit with it. There was a problem, though. I hit way more balls long than usual, and it felt like I was getting less topspin.

    I asked my pro what the sam hill was going on, and he said it will take a little getting used to but was a perfectly appropriate choice for me. I tried to adjust by making sure I was in perfect position and adjusting my racket swing a little for more topspin.

    I am unsure whether to string my other racket with gut also. I do not like having two different rackets set-ups. But if I do a hybrid, I'll be left with half a pack of gut, which is kinda weird.

    As for the elbow, I don't know if it is feeling better because of the gut or because of the three Advil I had to take after my root canal. : tears :

    Cindy -- who *hated* how her strings were moving around so much and is unsure whether she needs to be diligent about straightening them
     
    #79
  30. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    give it 3-4 hours
     
    #80
  31. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Cindy, full gut is the bomb. Wish i could do it. I know one thing, it is far better than a poly cross for 9 months! Thats madness.lol

    Watch all the pros in the 90s who were crushing the ball with full gut. Its a beautiful thing. If gut mains last hou 9 momths, the poly was a waste of your time anyway, the topspin is going to come regardless. Enjoy. Kim clijsters rocks the full gut in a babo and shes kinda good.
     
    #81
  32. NE1for10is?

    NE1for10is? Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    475
    What do you use to lubricate the strings and how long does it last?
     
    #82
  33. Blade0324

    Blade0324 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,569
    Well said. I had to try it to find out but just not my cup of tea.
     
    #83
  34. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    485
    I use mostly moisturiser and sometime Finger Ease for guitar string. It might work better with some industrial dry lubricants, but those are toxic unfortunately. As for how long it lasts, usually not very long. You might have to reapply after 1 or 2 hitting sessions.
     
    #84
  35. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    19,671
    Location:
    Central Florida

    Yep. My first 2 hours with Wilson gut I was hitting quite a few balls long. Once it broke in, the setup was terrific after that. I did have to use a little more topspin than normal to tame the power but I miss those strings already. :cry:
     
    #85
  36. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    It feels so good..I get paranoid I am going to break the strings though..haha. But I strung a little low and will adjust with my second stringjob.

    Regardless..the feel of the wilson stick with the gut mains is incredibly soft. It's crazy..I lose feel of the ball sometimes, so I definitely need to go higher in tension,but I love gut so much. Just doubt it will last long enough to be affordable long term.
     
    #86
  37. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    ok so now how do we do full gut that doesn't move?
     
    #87
  38. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    19,671
    Location:
    Central Florida

    String it at 75 pounds or higher.
     
    #88
  39. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Does your stringing machine even go up that high?
     
    #89
  40. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    19,671
    Location:
    Central Florida

    I'll look tonight. :)
     
    #90
  41. Shellovic

    Shellovic Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Den Bosch, Netherlands
    Once I have strung a racquet on 40kg. That was the maximum of the machine. Don't know how much lbs that is
     
    #91
  42. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    Wow! That's 88lbs. Scary. You'd need eye protection!
     
    #92
  43. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,991
    Location:
    The net

    Sampras' gut still moved up that high, as well as Philippoussis'.
     
    #93
  44. J_aces

    J_aces Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    648
    I'm actually now liking my global/bhbr hybrid. Maybe the gut had to break in and I needed to get used to the feel since I always use full poly. Now I'm getting great spin, easy to flatten the ball out and I have great feel at net. Still don't quite feel connected to my serves but hopefully I'll get used to the serving soon enough
     
    #94
  45. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    OK, I need help.

    I am playing full gut at 57 pounds, and I cannot generate the topspin I want. Or more accurately, I have to work really hard to get topspin. I have played four hours of doubles with the gut.

    I have one more racket to string. Do you think I should string it looser, and if so how loose? Or should I stick with 57 so that both of my rackets will be the same?
     
    #95
  46. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,635
    On the Performaxx website, it looks like Fred recommends using Carnauba car wax for lubricating the string. Both for stringing and for maintenance after playing sessions.
     
    #96
  47. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,635
    I can't tell you what's right for you, but I string my stick (ProKennex Kinetic Pro 5g) with a full gut bed at 52 lbs and I have no problem generating top spin.

    If you're happy with your current setup, then you should string your other racket the same. But if you're not happy with your current setup, why string the other the same when you have an opportunity to try something different with the other setup?
     
    #97
  48. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    485
    Interesting, Car Wax, haven't tried that :) Wonder if it's toxic though. I will look into switching to it as moisturiser and finger ease are far from perfect, thank you!
     
    #98
  49. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,655
    I string my own racquets because I do a lot of trial and error on string/tension setups. I currently play a gut/poly hybrid at fairly low tensions (low 50s) because it gives me a lot of spin, ample power and feels good to play. Here are my thoughts.

    1) Your current full gut setup isn't working for you. Do not duplicate a setup that isn't working.

    2) IMO, if you are looking for spin, you should be looking at hybrids not full gut. The strength of gut is power and plush feel. Spin is created by the free movement of the mains against the crosses. The lower the friction between the mains and crosses, the more spin you will generate. I use the TW friction tool as a guide for finding low friction setups and it has produced excellent advice for me. In general, gut/poly hybrids seem to be best for spin production.

    3) If the strings are crooked on your racquet after a rally, then they aren't snapping back easily and you are losing spin. In my racquets, this is the first sign that the strings are starting to go. Once my strings are shot, my shots travel further and come off the racquet at a higher angle. This effect is VERY noticeable when practicing groundies with a friend or a ball machine.

    4) I don't think I saw the backstory, but it sounds like you might be flirting with TE? Only you can make the call about whether you need to stick with full gut. I can tell you for sure that lower tension setups give you more access to spin regardless of the setup. I have tried very low tensions and they produce huge spin. However they have downsides that lead me to raise tension after a while. If you really want to stick with full gut, then you probably should go lower (53?). This will give you more spin, but also more power.

    That's all I've got right now. I hope it is helpful to you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2012
    #99
  50. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,117
    Cindysphinx, If you are going to play in Colorado you might want one racket with spinnier, less lively strings. The ball is already going to go about 8 feet further.
     

Share This Page