Why Do People Say Sampras is Greater Grass Courter Than Federer

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by McEnroeisanartist, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

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    Why do people say Sampras is the Greatest Grass Court Player of all Time?

    Is it simply because he won 7 Wimbledons compared to Federer's 6 Wimbledons? As of today, their record at Wimbledon is identical - 63-7.

    I think its clear that Federer dominated Wimbledon in a way that Sampras never did.

    Consider, in their first 6 Wimbledons that each man won, Federer lost 8 sets, Sampras lost a whopping 19 sets. Sampras lost sets to such heavyweights as, Neil Borwick, Karsten Braasch, Jared Palmer, Shuzo Matsuoka. The worst player that Federer lost a set to during this run: Mardy Fish.

    Federer was pushed to 5 sets only once. Sampras was pushed to 5 sets 4 times. (It is often said that Sampras is much stronger than Federer in 5 set matches, but one wonders, why Sampras was so weak he even needed to play so many 5 set matches).

    Federer had 6 bagels and 11 breadsticks during this run.
    Sampras had 1 bagel and 12 breadsticks durnig this run.
     
    #1
  2. ChrisCrocker

    ChrisCrocker Rookie

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    lol such a troll

    conditions back then were much different, grass was faster, that's a fact. Technology is different that's a fact.

    Back then someone running hot was much more dangerous.

    And your 5 set thing is hilarious
     
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  3. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Petros played against a stacked field of fast court players. Federer played against a field of clay courters. Your stats suck
     
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  4. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Who cares.. it's so hard to compare who is "the better grasscourt player". So many different stats you can use: Who has the most wimbledon? Who has the most grass titels? Who has lost the least sets in wimbledon? Longest winning streak on grass?

    All of it just seems so pointless: Who is the best grass court player ever? The best clay court player ever? Is Federer the 2nd best clay court player? Would Sampras beat Nadal on hardcourt? Would McEnroe beat Nadal on grass? Would Rod Laver rank within the top 10 if he played now?

    I'm getting so tired of these questions
     
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  5. McEnroeisanartist

    McEnroeisanartist Hall of Fame

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    I ll admit I am a troll. Grass was faster back then. We saw with Nadal's loss that a player can still run hot, but Federer somehow managed to avoid this.

    Its true about the 5 sets, how many 5 set matches that Sampras played. It really shows his weakness as a player, not his mental touchness, grit, blah blah.
     
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  6. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Federer never won Wim. on real grass, it was slowed down and balls changed starting 2001.

     
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  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Here are their whole Wimbledon records, so people can judge for themselves:

    Pete Sampras
    1989 Wimbledon
    R128: Todd Woodbridge def. Pete Sampras (7-5, 7-6, 5-7, 6-3)

    1990 Wimbledon
    R128: Christo Van Rensburg def. Pete Sampras (7-6, 7-5, 7-6)

    1991 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Danilo Marcelino (6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Derrick Rostagno def. Pete Sampras (6-4, 3-6, 7-6, 6-4)

    1992 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Andrei Cherkasov (6-1, 6-3, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Todd Woodbridge (7-6, 7-6, 6-7, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Scott Davis (6-1, 6-0, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Arnaud Boetsch (6-3, 7-5, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Stich (6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
    SF: Goran Ivanisevic def. Pete Sampras (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2)

    1993 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Neil Borwick (6-7, 6-3, 7-6, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Jamie Morgan (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Byron Black (6-4, 6-1, 6-1)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Andrew Foster (6-1, 6-2, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Andre Agassi (6-2, 6-2, 3-6, 3-6, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Jim Courier (7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 6-3)

    1994 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Jared Palmer (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Richey Reneberg (6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Chuck Adams (6-1, 6-2, 6-4)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Daniel Vacek (6-4, 6-1, 7-6)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Michael Chang (6-4, 6-1, 6-3)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Todd Martin (6-4, 6-4, 3-6, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (7-6, 7-6, 6-0)

    1995 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Karsten Braasch (7-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-1)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (6-2, 6-3, 7-6)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Jared Palmer (4-6, 6-4, 6-1, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Greg Rusedski (6-4, 6-3, 7-5)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Shuzo Matsuoka (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (7-6, 4-6, 6-3, 4-6, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-7, 6-2, 6-4, 6-2)


    1996 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Richey Reneberg (4-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-3)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Karol Kucera (6-4, 6-1, 6-7, 7-6)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Cedric Pioline (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Richard Krajicek def. Pete Sampras (7-5, 7-6, 6-4)

    1997 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Mikael Tillstrom (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Hendrik Dreekmann (7-6, 7-5, 7-5)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Byron Black (6-1, 6-2, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Petr Korda (6-4, 6-3, 6-7, 6-7, 6-4)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Boris Becker (6-1, 6-7, 6-1, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Todd Woodbridge (6-2, 6-1, 7-6)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Cedric Pioline (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)

    1998 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Dominik Hrbaty (6-3, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Mikael Tillstrom (6-4, 6-4, 7-6)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Thomas Enqvist (6-3, 7-6, 7-6)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (6-3, 4-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Goran Ivanisevic (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 3-6, 6-2)

    1999 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Scott Draper (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Sebastien Lareau (6-4, 6-2, 6-3)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Danny Sapsford (6-3, 6-4, 7-5)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Daniel Nestor (6-3, 6-4, 6-2)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Mark Philippoussis (4-6, 2-1 ret.)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Tim Henman (3-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Andre Agassi (6-3, 6-4, 7-5)

    2000 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Jiri Vanek (6-4, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Karol Kucera (7-6, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Justin Gimelstob (2-6, 6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
    R16: Pete Sampras def. Jonas Bjorkman (6-3, 6-2, 7-5)
    QF: Pete Sampras def. Jan-Michael Gambill (6-4, 6-7, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Pete Sampras def. Vladimir Voltchkov (7-6, 6-2, 6-4)
    FR: Pete Sampras def. Patrick Rafter (6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 6-2)


    2001 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Francisco Clavet (6-4, 7-6, 6-4)
    R64: Pete Sampras def. Barry Cowan (6-3, 6-2, 6-7, 4-6, 6-3)
    R32: Pete Sampras def. Sargis Sargsian (6-4, 6-4, 7-5)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Pete Sampras (7-6, 5-7, 6-4, 6-7, 7-5)

    2002 Wimbledon
    R128: Pete Sampras def. Martin Lee (6-3, 7-6, 6-3)
    R64: George Bastl def. Pete Sampras (6-3, 6-2, 4-6, 3-6, 6-4)



    Roger Federer
    1999 Wimbledon
    R128: Jiri Novak def. Roger Federer (6-3, 3-6, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4)

    2000 Wimbledon
    R128: Yevgeny Kafelnikov def. Roger Federer (7-5, 7-5, 7-6)

    2001 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Christophe Rochus (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Xavier Malisse (6-3, 7-5, 3-6, 4-6, 6-3)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Jonas Bjorkman (7-6, 6-3, 7-6)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Pete Sampras (7-6, 5-7, 6-4, 6-7, 7-5)
    QF: Tim Henman def. Roger Federer (7-5, 7-6, 2-6, 7-6)

    2002 Wimbledon
    R128: Mario Ancic def. Roger Federer (6-3, 7-6, 6-3)

    2003 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Hyung-Taik Lee (6-3, 6-3, 7-6)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Stefan Koubek (7-5, 6-1, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Mardy Fish (6-3, 6-1, 4-6, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Feliciano Lopez (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Sjeng Schalken (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (7-6, 6-3, 6-3)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Mark Philippoussis (7-6, 6-2, 7-6)

    2004 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Alex Bogdanovic (6-3, 6-3, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Alejandro Falla (6-1, 6-2, 6-0)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Thomas Johansson (6-3, 6-4, 6-3)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Ivo Karlovic (6-3, 7-6, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-1, 6-7, 6-0, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Sebastien Grosjean (6-2, 6-3, 7-6)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (4-6, 7-5, 7-6, 6-4)

    2005 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Paul-Henri Mathieu (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Ivo Minar (6-4, 6-4, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Kiefer (6-2, 6-7, 6-1, 7-5)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Juan Carlos Ferrero (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Fernando Gonzalez (7-5, 6-2, 7-6)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (6-2, 7-6, 6-4)

    2006 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Richard Gasquet (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Tim Henman (6-4, 6-0, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Nicolas Mahut (6-3, 7-6, 6-4)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tomas Berdych (6-3, 6-3, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Mario Ancic (6-4, 6-4, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Jonas Bjorkman (6-2, 6-0, 6-2)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (6-0, 7-6, 6-7, 6-3)

    2007 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Teymuraz Gabashvili (6-3, 6-2, 6-4)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Juan Martin del Potro (6-2, 7-5, 6-1)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (6-1, 6-4, 7-6)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Tommy Haas (Walkover)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Juan Carlos Ferrero (7-6, 3-6, 6-1, 6-3)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Richard Gasquet (7-5, 6-3, 6-4)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Rafael Nadal (7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 2-6, 6-2)


    2008 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Dominik Hrbaty (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Robin Soderling (6-3, 6-4, 7-6)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Marc Gicquel (6-3, 6-3, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Lleyton Hewitt (7-6, 6-2, 6-4)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Mario Ancic (6-1, 7-5, 6-4)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Marat Safin (6-3, 7-6, 6-4)
    FR: Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer (6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 6-7, 9-7)

    2009 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Yen-Hsun Lu (7-5, 6-3, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Philipp Kohlschreiber (6-3, 6-2, 6-7, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Robin Soderling (6-4, 7-6, 7-6)
    QF: Roger Federer def. Ivo Karlovic (6-3, 7-5, 7-6)
    SF: Roger Federer def. Tommy Haas (7-6, 7-5, 6-3)
    FR: Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick (5-7, 7-6, 7-6, 3-6, 16-14)


    2010 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Alejandro Falla (5-7, 4-6, 6-4, 7-6, 6-0)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Ilija Bozoljac (6-3, 6-7, 6-4, 7-6)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Arnaud Clement (6-2, 6-4, 6-2)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Jurgen Melzer (6-3, 6-2, 6-3)
    QF: Tomas Berdych def. Roger Federer (6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 6-4)

    2011 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Mikhail Kukushkin (7-6, 6-4, 6-2)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Adrian Mannarino (6-2, 6-3, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. David Nalbandian (6-4, 6-2, 6-4)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Mikhail Youzhny (6-7, 6-3, 6-3, 6-3)
    QF: Jo-Wilfried Tsonga def. Roger Federer (3-6, 6-7, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4)

    2012 Wimbledon
    R128: Roger Federer def. Albert Ramos (6-1, 6-1, 6-1)
    R64: Roger Federer def. Fabio Fognini (6-1, 6-3, 6-2)
    R32: Roger Federer def. Julien Benneteau (4-6, 6-7, 6-2, 7-6, 6-1)
    R16: Roger Federer def. Xavier Malisse (7-6, 6-1, 4-6, 6-3)
    QF: Roger Federer vs. Mikhail Youzhny
     
    #7
  8. TigerTim

    TigerTim Rookie

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    wow you are dumb. I'm not even going to bother wasting more words as they will not penetrate you skull.
     
    #8
  9. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    One more wimbeldon title then Federer.. Played a MUCH stronger grass field then Federer as well. Peak for Peak a higher level then Federer at wimbledon etc..


    I give Fed the age over Pete on hard courts (slower ones at least) and clay.. While I give Pete the edge indoors, grass, and slight edge on faster hard courts.

    Pete rules grass though.. The best to ever step on the lawns of wimbledon
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
    #9
  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    From your list, JennyS also came up with the stats that Fed met more and beat more top 10 players than Sampras.
     
    #10
  11. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    What exactly is the golden standard for mental 'touchness'?
     
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  12. TigerTim

    TigerTim Rookie

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    Why Sampras is a better grass player than JesusFed

    -Depth of Field; Sampras had to deal with Agassi, Goran, Becker, Rafter, The Dutch Bloke and a host of solid grass courters. Federer had Roddick. Then Nadal who was affectively a clay courter untill 2007 and beat him soon after that.

    -Type of Grass; The grass was real, not fake clay

    -You mention "dominance", sets won, games lost etc. It is much harder to break on the fast grass of the 90s than in Federer's post '01 era hence why Pete won fewer games, look at how Rafa lost 40 odd games at RG in 2008 and Roger's best was 65 games in 06(?) and Wimby, slower = easy to break.

    -Federer was taken to 5 by Rodduck and Nadal (at his 07 peak), surely he should have done better if he was so good
     
    #12
  13. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    So far, a poll from The Tennis Channel has the following players with the most vote:


    Who is the best grass court male player of the open era?

    1. Federer (62.86%)
    2. Sampras (25.2%)
    3. McEnroe (6.83%)
    4. Borg (3.78%)
    5. Becker (1.02%)
    6. Other (0.31%)

    http://www.tennischannel.com/
     
    #13
  14. TigerTim

    TigerTim Rookie

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    What???!!!! Borg with half the votes of McEnroe - :shock:
     
    #14
  15. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

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    ROFL.

    Show your proof that "someone running hot was much more dangerous" back then compared to now.
     
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  16. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That poll has no credibility because it's massively biased in favour of contemporary players. Not because they are better, but because they are more high profile.
     
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  17. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Funny how Fed detractors wants to relate clay is the same as grass when Roddick has 3 W finals but a journeymen on clay; Fed has 6 W to 1 FO; Nadal has 6 FO to 2 W....

    Grass plays the same as clay. Sure it does.:rolleyes:
     
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  18. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Grass and clay are nothing alike. All this "fake clay" stuff is ridiculous.
     
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  19. TheTennisFanatic

    TheTennisFanatic New User

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    Hmm I remember seeing some stats which suggested that breaking the serve has actually been tougher since 2001. Can some one come up with the actual stats?
     
    #19
  20. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's your perspective. It's not necessary true because notice fans from the former player talk forum are quite the opposite.

    Any tennis fan from young, middel age to old can visit The Tennis Channel so there's nothing you can say that it was a "massive" biased.
     
    #20
  21. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Actually, no. Sampras *didn't* have to deal with "The Dutch Bloke", otherwise his record at Wimbledon would be much worse than it is. He faced him only once at SW19, in the middle of his streak here, and failed to win a single set. A consistent Krajicek would probably have destroyed Sampras' legacy something good, had they met at Wimby and the USO as many times as Federer met Nadal or Djokovic there.

    So, you might say that Sampras is a better grass player than Federer because he *almost never* had to face on grass The Dutch Bloke who owned him just about anywhere... :roll:
     
    #21
  22. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    One has 7 titles, the other 6....not identical.
     
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  23. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Younger people are more internet savvy than older people. Unless there is data to confirm that the tennis channel poll sample had an equal distribution of all ages and countries, the poll will likely be biased.

    I can understand Fed beating Sampras in this poll by a few points. But by such a huge margin just speaks to some bias in the way the poll was conducted.
     
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  24. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro Talk Tennis Guru

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    Oh the numerous times Sampras had to play Krajicek or Rafter at Wimbledon:) Saying that Sampras had to deal with Rafter is like saying Federer had hard competition on clay because of Kuerten.

    And of course at the same time you fail to point out how good Hewitt was on grass a few years back to challenge Federer.

    Which made the entire field compete on it rather than a bunch of grass courters.

    Yea far worse than peak Sampras being owned in straight sets by Krajicek or Sampras losing to a lucky loser. I don't even even bother to check all the matches where Sampras was pushed hard by mugs at Wimbledon in his peak years.
     
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  25. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    ???????????????????????????

    He didn't say 7 is identical to 6, but their win/loss record is identical.
     
    #25
  26. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Exactly. That poll is no more valid than than a MTV board claming Beiber is the greatest music star of all time. In other words, trivial and lightweight.
     
    #26
  27. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Agree with that, the margin is just too big. ;)
     
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  28. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    That being said they are tremendously more similar than they used to be, especially the grass in the second week. The grass plays more like a medium/slow hardcourt in the 2nd week, mainly due to the fact that the compacting of the soil along with a few other factors has lead to much higher bounces.



    Sampras is considered better because he won on the traditional grass that most of us know, and most people have known for literally a hundred years or so, and had to go through a few stacked fields against his favor. Federer in the meanwhile had Hewitt for two years, Roddick, and Nadal. There's literally no other competition Federer faced, and it's not because he couldn't be beat on grass, Roddick came close two years, Hewitt gave him alot of trouble in the QF in 2004, and Nadal took him out in 2008 when Federer was in pretty good form.
     
    #28
  29. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    If Federer wins this year, you gotta give him the edge. He'll have a better record at Wimbledon with

    7 wins
    8 finals
    8 SFs
    11 QFs

    Compared to Sampras' record of

    7 wins
    7 finals
    8 SFs
    9 QFs
     
    #29
  30. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    You can't give him the edge for winning on fake grass courts now can you?

     
    #30
  31. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    So all Wimbledon wins from 2002 onward are invalid? Nadal isn't a great grass-courter?

    Besides, Federer stopped Sampras' bid for five in a row on the old grass by playing serve-and-volley tennis. He can do it all and would've had success in an era with faster grass too.
     
    #31
  32. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah that overrated allcourt game that nearly got him in huge trouble vs Julian Benneteau. He bricked so many easy volleys it was hilarious.
     
    #32
  33. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Another classic thread. LOL.


    Which one did you sleep through? He has 7 FO.
     
    #33
  34. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Is it possible for you to get through a thread without posting nonsense, let alone twice in the same thread with the same nonsense?
     
    #34
  35. GodNovak

    GodNovak Banned

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    Because they know tennis.
     
    #35
  36. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    More Wimbledons on much tougher grass in a much tougher grass court era. The end. There is nothing to discuss. If by some miracle Federer reaches 8 Wimbledons, lets revive the thread.
     
    #36
  37. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Everyone has a bad day at the office. It's not like Sampras never bricked easy volleys in his career.
     
    #37
  38. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Not that I disagree with Namranger when he claims that Federer is more of baseliner than an all-courter, but you are right in saying Federer had a bad day. Today, Federer played great at net today! 34/39 at the net. Sweet stuff.
     
    #38
  39. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Nahhh...they can't do that. To this frightened little group, they have to micromanage Federer's history in order to give him a "best" title somewhere, since it was clear he was never ging to be the GOAT with no Grand Slam on his list. Without the Grand Slam, they need to point to single events--and even as of this date, they cannot crown him some sort of grass king without going to w/l records, because they know a straightforward assessment leaves Sampras ahead for the most important reason.
     
    #39
  40. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    He is probably the best overall hard court player ever. Most everyone would love their favorite to be best ever on anything, so hey should just settle for that, rather than trying to invent ways to make him the best all around, grass, carpet, indoor, clay, bubble gum, and water surfing player ever.
     
    #40
  41. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Wasn't it a young Fed who broke Pete's Wimby streak on their only meeting on grass?

    Pete was still in near prime form with 3 more US Open finals still in him and Fed was not yet developed into the player he would become.
    Head to head, Pete always had a server's chance to beat anyone on any service, but take his awesome serve away and give him just a good one like Fed or Agassi and Fed never makes a Semi.
    Stroke for stroke and movement... It all Fed except the serve, where Pete has a nice edge.
    -from a Sampras Fan
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
    #41
  42. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^^ +1

    Never seen a player like Federer in all my long days..

    There was a CC BH near the end of the first set against Malisse that I don't think anyone else could have hit, just ludicrous.
     
    #42
  43. mcenroefan

    mcenroefan Hall of Fame

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    In the Sampras era and going back to the Borg-Mac-Connors era (with Lendl and all of the other greats included), the surfaces were much different than today. Just as importantly, there were far more "specialists". This produced all sorts of challenges that don't necessarily exist today.

    1. e.g., grass was super fast, low bouncing, and slick----Thus, the chance for an upset by a big hitter was far greater at Wimby in those days. Wimby was a bit more of a minefield than it is today.
    2. The specialists probably made it a bit tougher at the French and Wimby..maybe even the USO (the AO was largely irrelevant for a couple of decades--at least compared to what it is today).

    Anyway, there is no GOAT (of grass, clay, or otherwise) b/c it is nigh impossible to compare eras. I do think that the above factors, though hardly comprehensive, add to the special nature of what Borg accomplished.

    The reason I love Fed is for the beauty with which he plays the game....again, in my subjective opinion. I can't say whether he would have dominated Borg, Mac, Laver, etc. nor do I care. I can, however, say the following: to my eye, he plays the most creative, graceful and beautiful tennis that I have ever seen. Truthfully, I've never seen any athlete in any sport move in the way that Fed skates about the court.

    Nole's game also has grown on me quite a bit for far different reasons. Some of those gumby positions he manages are quite amazing and I think he has incredible ability as an offensive machine (though he too often plays conservatively for my liking). When he opens up though, he is marvelous. I think those who believe that his ROS against Fed in last year's USO semi was "lucky," are missing something in Nole. He really is that gifted.....that ROS winner on match point was not pure luck.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
    #43
  44. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    LOL NO.


    Take away Federer's forehand and how many slams does he win? 1 or 2. Take away Nadal's movement and how many does he win. You really want to go there.


    and Ugly Betty is the next Miss Universe.
     
    #44
  45. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    cool thread fanbooooyyyyy !!!

    Because he is, fanboyyyy




    'Bagels' .... 'breadsticks' .... whoa, that's cool bro' ...





    This really shows your mental retardation, fanbooyy


    Sent from my balls to your face using Tapatalk 2
     
    #45
  46. ThePro101

    ThePro101 Rookie

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    Whoa - 100% Final record -- very impressive!
     
    #46
  47. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Um... those names may look impressive but Sampras didn't play those guys often at Wimbledon at all.

    He played Becker 3 times in 14 attempts at Wimbledon. The last was against an over the hill Becker. He played Agassi only twice and Henman once.

    Six matches aren't exactly a huge roadblock in the 70 matches he played there. Point being: he may have the more impressive number of titles but to make out like he was playing greats often at Wimbledon is a little misleading. He had cakewalk runs many times - if only based on the then form of opponents who look historically to be strong. (or, some will argue, he just smashed them off the court)
     
    #47
  48. SB

    SB Rookie

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    Sampras loafed his way through most return games. He was so confident in his serve, he only broke when it was necessary or convenient. So comparing games lost or even sets lost doesn't really mean anything. He was trying to win matches, not the highest number of games.
     
    #48
  49. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    3 reasons: (1) first serve, (2) second serve, and (3) net game.
     
    #49
  50. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    In addition to a better first and second serve, Sampras was a better volleyer and a much better net player. He was also physically stronger, faster, and more explosive. And, although Federer's forehand is better, Sampras' forehand was his second best shot, and one of the best of all time, IMO. BTW, how many majors do you think Federer would have with Sampras' forehand?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
    #50

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