why do people use demanding frames?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by tennis_nerd22, Aug 21, 2006.

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  1. tennis_nerd22

    tennis_nerd22 Hall of Fame

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    after trying out many frames i think im going to be going with a tweener (a 100 in or so). but im wondering that if so many of you guys use player's rackets that are demanding and that every shot you hit has to be perfect form or else it will not be the shot you want. when instead you could use an easy to use tweener or forgiving frame and not have to be as precise but still get good results (?).

    is it just for pride? :D

    im just wondering, dont flame me.
     
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  2. jackabee

    jackabee Rookie

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    It helps you to improve for one! :)
     
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  3. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    My small heavy racket never felt any more demanding than my light oversize racket even though I am not an advanced player. It didn't make a preceptible difference to my results. I don't know if it has something to do with my style or my being "tone-deaf" when it comes to racket differences.

    Given that I felt no difference, I prefer the former for two reasons:
    1 everyone says heavier rackets are better from an injury standpoint
    2 "pride", in your words. It makes me me feel more special.
     
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  4. emcee

    emcee Semi-Pro

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    To get better. I thought you wanted to go pro or something. Getting a tweener racquet is not the way to go at all.

    It helps the ego as well, but I also like heavy racquets simply because of the way they feel.
     
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  5. tennis_nerd22

    tennis_nerd22 Hall of Fame

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    but what if you use a tweener thats heavy? is it no longer considered a tweener then? like the POG OS..

    im just thinking like if you have enough control by yourself, why not make life a bit easier. as long as you can consistently play well, i personally wouldnt care if my racket was for beginners, advanced, or pro players.
     
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  6. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I actually almost consider tweener frames more demanding than player's frames because they make me think more about my shots while I'm hitting them. They have too much power so I have to make sure I don't swing too hard and get enough topspin, etc. With the racket I have now, I can focus on just hitting the way I want. I was always told I was swinging too hard and going for winners when I wasn't, that was just my natural stroke. Since changing rackets, that natural stroke I like is what is required to put weight into shots, so it works out well. I was never able to hit very consistently when I had to think about slowing down my swing speed to not lose control.

    So an overall answer to your question is because that's what fits our games, just like why anyone buys any frame. You buy what works for you. An added bonus for demanding frames is that they're more stable to hit and handle heavy shots.
     
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  7. spaceman_spiff

    spaceman_spiff Hall of Fame

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    For some of us, when we take a long, full swing at the ball with a 'tweener, the ball sails long. If we don't have too much of a problem hitting the sweetspot on a smaller frame and provide our own power, then what we need is a racket that provides the necessary control to place the ball exactly where we want it; we do the rest.

    That being said, because of the unpredictable surface that I started playing on a few months back, I have been looking for a bigger racket. I still don't need a lot of power or less weight, just a bigger frame because of slightly unpredictable bounces. There are some players frames between 95 and 100 in, but I wouldn't call them 'tweeners. However, back on good old predictable hard courts, my Estusa with the 92 in frame was great.
     
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  8. Mr.Federer

    Mr.Federer Hall of Fame

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    Because some people have very good technique and are quite strong so generating power isn't very hard and the smaller headsize gives you more control.Also,"demanding" frames are made for players with full/long/fast swing, they even say it on the frame.Tweeners on the other hand(like in the 10 to11oz. range) are more forgiving and generate more power without needing a full/long/fast swing. Now, if you know, that you don't have a full/long/fast swing don't even consider using a "demanding" frame, because you don't need it! Improve your game and the day you have a full swing and have become stronger then you will see that you've outgrown your "tweener".


    Hope that I helped
     
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  9. spaceman_spiff

    spaceman_spiff Hall of Fame

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    If you really want a game improvement racket, try playing for a month with a Head Guillermo Vilas from the early 80's. It's like a log with a handle. The high weight plus small head size makes you really focus on all of your strokes; no laziness allowed. I played with one regularly last summer. After a month or so with one of those, even a PS 6.0 85 seems big, light, powerful, and spin-friendly.
     
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  10. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    I'm older and switched back to the mp Prestige FXP, I guess it came down to feel and control, I did lose some pop and racquet speed, but i'm happier playing with this stick..
     
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  11. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I had a similar experience. I've been playing with my PS 85 for the past 3 months. I picked up my n6.1 95 one day just because and it felt huge. I mean, it's only a 10" difference, but looking down at it in my hand made it seem a lot bigger. It just didn't feel right anymore. They are pretty close to the same weight, so I didn't notice that too much, though. Man, I don't think I would ever be able to go back and play with an OS 110" head like I did 5 years ago.
     
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  12. jace112

    jace112 Semi-Pro

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    Because it's hard to control a tweener from the baseline if you hit some heavy shots.

    And it feels like the ball vanishes into the air before you have the time to understand what's going on.

    And if you use high tensions, to get some control, that usually hurts.

    I assume that by demanding you mean too demanding for the level required... (every frame could be demanding)
     
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  13. KuertenRules

    KuertenRules Rookie

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  14. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    I don't use a demanding frame. My heavy-and-smaller-than-95-sq.in. rackets are just right for me.

    Because if I use a tweener or something light and big, I'll miss it all. If I was really to use it, I would have to seriously concentrate. This kind of racket is considered demanding for me.
     
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  15. oldguysrule

    oldguysrule Semi-Pro

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    IMO, the distinction between "tweeners", "player's" and "game improvement" frames is sufficiently muddled that these lablels have no meaning. There are no "demanding" frames or "easy" frames. There are frames that fit your game and your swing better than other frames...which leads some to think that one is easier to play with than another. However, that same frame might be harder for someone else to play with. That is why there are so many different specifications for frames. Some like it hot, some like it cold. Some like it heavy, some like it light. Some like it big, some like it small. Get the picture? Pick the frame that you play the best with and don't worry about what anyone else plays with.

    If you pick a frame for pride or ego, you really have problems and miss the point of playing a sport. There is no pride in losing unless you played hard, gave it your best shot, and gave yourself the best chance to win with the right equipment choices. Choosing equipment based on how you look, or what someone else thinks is not the best way to do it. Again, choose the frame that gives you the best chance to win and improve.

    And finally, no racquet is going to make your strokes, technique, or concentration any better. This comes from practice, both physically and mentally. If you think using a "demanding" racquet will make your strokes better, you are mistaken. It might make your strokes better with that racquet, but then what happens when you switch back to your "easier" racquet.

    Find a racquet that you feel comfortable with, practice hard with it, don't switch racquets all the time, don't obsess with what other people use, and go out and have fun playing tennis. You might choose a racquet that is small and heavy, big and light, or big and heavy. It doesn't matter as long as it is the right frame for you.
     
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  16. c_zimma

    c_zimma Semi-Pro

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    I went from my PS 95 to a tweener OS, the Thundercloud. I thought things were going well, until my elbow became extremely sore. So back to the Pro Staff.
     
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  17. vkartikv

    vkartikv Hall of Fame

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    I'll give you one short answer: It's what I used growing up and I am not giving it up. Just because everyone is getting silicone implants now doesn't mean I should appreciate those and forget natural beauty. I will always stay loyal to the naturals...
     
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  18. ace of spades

    ace of spades Semi-Pro

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    Exellent.
     
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  19. hadoken

    hadoken Rookie

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    My suspicion is that most regulars here don't suffer from a lack of power (which is where tweeners are known for) and suffer from control so there is no reason to go to a tweener. I mishit a lot of balls and may benefit from going to an OS player frame, but for some reason I don't like how they serve so I stick to a midsize.
     
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  20. govols

    govols New User

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    I can't use power frames as my shots sail with them. To me, players frames allow me to use spin much easier, much easer.
     
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  21. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I don't agree with the first part on this. The names "tweener", "player's", and "game improvement" all have specific meanings based on the specs. In general, a game improvement frame is larger, light weight, pretty stiff, and has plenty of power. A player's frame is small, heavy, head light, and most importantly low-powered. A tweener frame is just like it sounds, in between these two: medium size, a range of stiffnesses, good power and control. While the words themselves may not mean much, they do sufficiently classify rackets in general. When I say I'm looking for a "player's frame", no one is going to point me in the direction of a 110" head heavy frame with stiffness of 70. That just isn't what it means. As long as people understand the meaning and use of the terms, they do serve a purpose.
     
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  22. chaz_233

    chaz_233 Rookie

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    One word: marketing.
     
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  23. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    I really depends on you, how much experience you have, how strong you are, how is your technique, what is your game style, how much do you play on a regular basis, ect


    The thing is that for me a 85sqin frame is easier to play with, it is less work, more acurate, ect for me

    Now if you don't play often you will not have the best timing, if you are weaker then you need more power from the racket, if your stokes are shorter you may need more power from racket, ect


    I did not switch to the on purpose it just kinda happend, I love my LMPMP and bought 5 of them just 2 month ago, but did not even play them when I got them as I started playing with my tnt-90s and those work so much better for the direction of my game.


    There are almost no wrong answers as for each it is very indevidual, also I could easily switch to the LMinstinct XL for a very simular game and just a good.

    Many pros use smaller head rackets and many other large head rackets, personally I prefer the short angle game more than others, so that is where it leaves me.
     
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  24. oldguysrule

    oldguysrule Semi-Pro

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    Labels always serve a purpose to an extent. They can also confuse people and be misleading. The labels in this situation make it easier for the marketing people to accomplish their goals. It doesn't really make it easier for a tennis player to get the right racquet for their game...

    Look at the list of "player's racquets" on TW. From a quick look, I would say the majority of them fall in the low 11 ounce weight and are 95 to 105 inch headsize. A few were as low as 10.5 oz strung and several went up to 110 inch headsize. The stiffness level went up to 72. This is the very definition of muddled. (at least in my opinion, certainly some will disagree with me). So, you tell me you want a player's racquet...here are a couple for you:

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCPRINCE-PSDB.html

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCBAB-ZTOUR.html

    I still say, ignore the labels, pick the right racquet for your game, and have fun. My new slogan is "Every racquet is a game improvement racquet if it is the right racquet for you."
     
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  25. Ruud

    Ruud Rookie

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    I think most of us can play with every racket pretty good, but if you want to play the best you can you will have to have a frame that fits your game. And what fits your ego. If you have the right equipment it can make you play that 5% better. But most of it is in your head. Sometimes it just can help to replace your grip or a your favorite t-shirt.
     
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  26. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    In my case, it was a question of "balance".

    I could use more powerful frames for my forehand but I volley
    much better with "player"'s frame.
     
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  27. stevewcosta

    stevewcosta Professional

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    Balance, feel, solidity, beam construction (box preferred), weight...
     
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  28. fx101

    fx101 Rookie

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    A more demanding racquet allows you to obtain more control over placment of the ball and allows for more spin than a tweener.
     
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  29. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I have already wondered about TW's labelling of tennis rackets. I don't understand why W-Line frames are listed as player's frames. To me, anything above 100" head, anything thicker than about 22mm beam, stiffer than high 60's, weight below 11 oz, and certainly anything head heavy should not be considered a player's racket. But, like I say, I think the labels work well enough. I can make a statement such as "I have moved towards player's frame specs each year for the past 5 years" because each head has been smaller, weight higher, and balance more HL. I just think the problem lies with the people and how they treat the labels. There is no shame in being a 4.0+ player playing with a tweener racket if that's what works for you. Remember, actions (i.e. on-court performance) speak louder than words (i.e. racket label).
     
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  30. oldguysrule

    oldguysrule Semi-Pro

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    I think anything above a 95", thicker than 20mm, stiffer than 65, and below 12oz. shouldn't ge considered a player's frame. See the problem? Your comment about a 4.0 player with a tweener shouldn't even be thought, much less said. I agree with your last sentence.

    I think consumers would be better served if we compared racquets based on power vs. control. However, I think it would be even better if we were on the tennis court right now.
     
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  31. skraggle

    skraggle Professional

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    For me, demanding=rewarding. You get so much more out of a player's weight/headsize frame if you have a big swing. No one can overpower you, shots go right where you aimed them, and serves have authority. Plus, there's just that feeling of confidence when you have a hefty weapon at your side...
     
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  32. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I would like to agree with your above specs. However, two problems arise to me. The first is the n6.1 95. It has a beam thickness of 21 or 22 mm, and it is certainly a player's frame. Second is the PS 85 with a stiffness of 66, also no doubt a player's frame. So I expanded my range to include rackets that have maybe all of your specs above except for one. The cumulitive effect of the specs are what determine a player's frame, not each one individually. This is why we always run into the hypothetical "all things being equal." We never actually have all other things equal, so it is difficult to very definitively classify rackets. Yes, I realize that sentence seems to agree with you, and I more or less do. However, you can still put labels on rackets. It's not written in stone and it's not a law that you need to buy a specific one. So what I call a tweener frame and another person calls a player's frame, ok, whatever. We can both get an idea for the racket with its specs anyway. That's why there's so many different combinations of specs, because simply 3 or 4 (one for each category) just wouldn't work.
     
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  33. macroscopic

    macroscopic Guest

    Depends on the definition of "demanding". After growing up playing with wood frames I think the OS composite frames are extremely demanding. I can hardly keep a forehand inside the lines.

    The low powered racquets, on the other hand, allow me to swing in a manner comfortable to me and are less demanding for me.

    I'd rather have a ball hit 5 feeet short than 5 feet long.
     
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  34. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    No, not pride at all. Most people who use player's racquets already have pretty good technique or else they would not be very successful using them. Thus, if we use a less demanding racquet that allows us to hit the ball over the net even without good technique, then eventually we'll likely lose that well-honed technique since we'll probably get lazy and stop using so much effort into hitting the ball.

    It's like if you don't do calculus everyday, how much calculus will you remember in 10 years? Like they say, "You use it or you lose it." ;)

    For many who use demanding racquets, the technique and the effort is a big part of the joy of playing tennis. Otherwise, why not just play a tennis video game on your Playstation? Can't get any less "demanding" than that, right? ;) LOL
     
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  35. tonysk83

    tonysk83 Semi-Pro

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    Both my racquets(rdx 500 mp) were getting strung so I had to use my old LM Radical OS for two days and those were some of the worst days of my life. I was just poking the ball over because of the power. Now with my rdx 500's I can get a full swing in, place the ball where I want, and not worry about hitting too hard.
     
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  36. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    It's funny; I would say about 80% of the 5.0 guys I play with play with tweeners. Go figure. Our team went to Southern Sectionals at 5.0 and I would say most of the players down there were using tweeners also.

    I would say a lot of it is what you are used to and grew up with but I would say a lot of it is pride. I have tried switching back to a heavier racquet (I grew up playing with the POG Oversize) from my Volkl Tour 8's and have had difficulty since I've used it for so long.
     
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  37. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    couldnt agree more...one of my regular hits was a 5.0 untill he switched from his old Gamma tweeners to the nCode90 and now he is a 4.5 I would say...he's too proud to switch again. other than that, one guy used a PS6.1 95 (he won national 45 events), and the other guy used PMacs old frame (based on the ps85) and played Wimbledon years ago..other than that, all the better players coming thru here are using MP frames and OS frames and quite a diverse mixture of stuff but nothing too demanding. We do have a so called teaching pro down here using a prestige Mid but i would say he is a 4.0 and he cant even demonstrate the volley let alone teach it. Seems like the people using the very demandng frames are some of the TW posters and mostly 3.5's and 4.0's...this from playing and teaching at racquet clubs where people visit from around the world.a pretty good cross section.

    how'd you do at sectionals? were they held at Kiawah?
     
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  38. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    If I had to switch to a less demanding racquet to become a 5.0, I'd rather stay with my more demanding racquet and stay a 4.5. Why? Because then I know it wasn't me that got better, it was just the racquet, and I'd rather be a true 4.5 than a 5.0 that's only a 5.0 because of my racquet.

    Besides, there's enough tough competiton at 4.5. Going to 5.0 just means you're going to lose more. ;) LOL
     
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  39. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Another thing that you have to consider here is that the majority using rackets with large head sizes are using a poly.

    That allows you to take those larger swings


    Yet another is that lighter rackets just are not as stable when not in full momentum simular to Hammer type rackets, ie not good volley rackets

    When it comes down to it what works works, I think that it is strange that smaller head rackets improved my game, never saw it coming.
     
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  40. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    Well, I normally use a PK 5g. I tried a less demanding racket about 4 years ago (a PK ti 15g). Within 3 months, my elbow hurt so bad I had to quit playing for a month. I went back to the 5g. Actually, I went back to an older PK Asymmetric 265 (also about 95 sq in) which is very flexible, and most likely, the easiest on the arm racket ever made (save wood). My arm problems didn't return.

    The other reason is that I can't consistently keep my groundstrokes in with more powerful rackets. As much as I like the instant pop on volleys that they provide, the groundstrokes just aren't as dependable. The angles are harder to come by, even with a lot of topspin.

    Unlike Breakpoint, if I could move up a level AND not have arm pain, I'd gladly go to a less demanding racket. But, playing year round keeps me playing at a higher level than playing 3 out of every 4 month (if even that were possible) and without the pain the stiffer, longer rackets caused.
     
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  41. gb93433

    gb93433 Rookie

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    I learned on a Dunlop wood racquet and the new racquets are like cannons compared to a wood racquet. I use a Wilson 61 tour 90. I find them much easier to use. I definitely do not need more power.
     
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  42. chowdhurynaveen

    chowdhurynaveen Rookie

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    I know many 5.0's that are actually 4.0's using a players racquet. On the same token, i know plenty of 5.0's that are actually 4.0's that are using a tweener. I also play with many people that kill on the courts using both tweeners and player frames.

    It all comes down to body mechanics, some people are built to use certain tool better than others. A simple example: the best rock climbers have long bony fingers to help them navigate stoney edges.

    Also, one mold does not fit all, i have a freind that can easily rep 250 pounds on the bench who can throw football like no other. But my cousin is a skinny gangily guy that can throw that same football twice as far as the bencher can. Why is this, my skinny freinds joint and bone structure is more adapt to a throwing motion, and he can activate a serious of muscles key to throwing much more consistently and easily than the bencher can. On the flip side, the benchers muscular triangular torso, and cinder block like legs makes him more adapt to anaerobic excersizes (lifting). Im sure you get the idea.

    In the end, you just have to find the racquet that best fits your body mechanics.
     
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  43. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    Breakpoint,

    I don't know where your post went from earlier but here it is from my inbox:

    ---Quote (Originally by couch)---
    That makes no sense whatsoever.
    ---End Quote---

    ---Quote (Originally by Breakpoint)---
    Why not? A true 5.0 should be able to play 5.0-level tennis with just about any racquet IMHO, including so-called "demanding" ones. A 5.0 that can only play 5.0-level tennis with a "less-demanding" racquet, to me, is _not_ a true 5.0 player. Because, obviously it's the racquet that is helping him do a lot of the work and not himself doing the work since if you gave him a "more demanding" racquet he immediately drops down to the 4.5 level. IMO, a player's ability and rating should be independent of the racquet used.

    I think Redflea gave a good example in another thread of a 5.5 he hits with that can play equally well with _any_ racquet you put in his hands. Now that's a true 5.5 player. :D
    ---End Quote---

    Breakpoint,
    If you are a 5.0, you are a 5.0, it doesn't matter what racquet you use. Last time I checked they kept score in tennis and I thought that's how you got your rating. I could use a more demanding racquet, I just choose not to. Why should I if I like using an 11 oz. racquet and have good success at it? I would say anyone who is playing at a 4.5 level or up has good technique and could play with just about anything "if" they wanted to. So to say that a 5.0 using a tweener or even a "granny" stick is not a 5.0 is ludicrous.

    I don't know about you but I play tennis for the enjoyment "and" to win, so why would I not play with a racquet that I feel gives me the best chance, IMHO, to win? Besides, I've been playing with this racquet (Original Tour 8 ) ever since it came out and don't have the time to get used to another racquet; I have three kids at home.

    I play with mostly ex-division I tennis players and like I said most of them play with tweeners now. I also play with a guy who was a hitting partner on the Indian Davis Cup team a while back and he uses a 115 sq. in. Prince TT Attitude. Now are you going to tell me he's not atleast a 5.0?
     
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  44. alb1

    alb1 Rookie

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    Using this new formula a former Davis Cup player using a 115 would only rate 3.5. (Deduct .5 for every 5 sq in over 90)
     
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  45. kinsella

    kinsella Semi-Pro

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    I use a low powered, heavier racquet for several reasons.

    1. I like to use my strength and still keep the ball in the court. I came to tennis from years of racquetball and squash, where you could not hit the ball so hard you lost the point. I often won points just on hitting really hard.

    2. As long as the stick is around 12 oz, I can get plenty of power on serve.

    3. Volleying hard hit balls and controlling them is easier with a heavy racquet.
     
    #45
  46. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    There is a certain reverseness about this demanding frame stuff..better players really dont use that sort of gear much anymore because they wish to be better players and wish to compete well and to the best of their abilities, but 3.5's can get away with using them because they are playing other 3.5's and the ball doesnt come whizzing at them with controlled power and loads of spin. Also, UE's don;t really matter so much as each point at the 3.5 level is less significant as the 3.5 on the other side of the net is coughing up plenty of UE's too. The only place you really even hear about obsolete demanding frames being used is here at TW. In the real world they are non issues other than reminiscing about the old days when Sampras USED to play or Courier USED to play. They arent really even used very much at all on the Pro Tours...
     
    #46
  47. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    So many people make it seem like classic "demanding frames" (i.e. PS 85 and PC) are completely obsolete and even advanced players have nothing to gain from playing with them, that even advanced players would benefit more from playing with more powerful, less demanding frames. Well guess what, that's not true. Do you want to tell the 2002 US Open champion that he was using the wrong racket? Perhaps you want to suggest the number one player in the world switch to a nice Babolat? Yeah, probably not. Say and think what you want, but the instant I switched from the n6.1 to the PS 85 with so little power and so much control, my game jumped up a notch or two. I simply cannot play with a racket with so much power as a tweener or other racket below 11.5 oz. Perhaps if I changed my technique and strategy, yeah, I could. However, as my game has developed, I've moved from the net-fearing, baseline bashing, topspin whipping player to an all-court player using less spin and more solid technique. How many all-court players use light and powerful rackets? I don't think it's so much that any specific racket is obsolete as it is the game style that it complements is fading in popularity. Look at the top players using Babolat (sorry, but I find Babolat to be the easiest and most obvious observation to make in explaining my point), you have Roddick, Clijsters, Nadal, Gonzalez. What percentage of the time would you say they volley? 5%, maybe 10% now that Roddick has found some acceptable percentages up at net? Now who's craftier and uses the court better? Federer, Mauresmo, Henman, Baghdatis. None of whom use light rackets. It's no doubt that there is a correlation between the evolution of the game and the popularity of certain frame types.

    P.S. please don't argue about specific examples of players I used. If you don't agree with some of them, that wasn't the point. I made my point clear, I think, and I'm sure there are other examples that could be used that I just didn't think of.
     
    #47
  48. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, I agree. That's what I said and that was my point.
    That's not what I said. I said that if you give that same 5.0 a more demanding racquet, for example a PS 6.0 85, he should still continue to be able to play at the 5.0 level. Only if he immediately drops down a whole level to 4.5, THEN he was never likely a true 5.0 to begin with. Like you said above, a 5.0 should be able to play with just about anything, right? In this case, he couldn't.

    Who said you should switch? Please read my sig below my posts. I've been saying here over and over that people should stick with their racquet and practice more to get better rather than look for a short cut to get better by constantly switching racquets.

    Why would I say that? Of course, he's at least a 5.0. As long as he continues to play 5.0 level tennis with whatever racquet you put into his hands, whether that's a TT Attitude OS or a PS 6.0 85. Now if you gave him a PS 6.0 85 and even after months of practice and getting used to it, he drops down to a 3.5 level player, then would you still say that he was at least a 5.0 to begin with? Probably not, right? That's all I'm saying. Ratings are supposed to rate the player himself only, not the player-racquet combination. That's why you don't see asterisks next to people's ratings, as in "John Smith - 5.0*" "* - but only with a Pure Drive."
     
    #48
  49. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    Okay, I can accept that. It sounded like you were saying a 5.0 who uses a tweener is not really a 5.0 and that if that same 5.0 would use a more demanding racquet he would immediately drop to a 4.5. Sorry I took your comments out of context but that's what it sounded like you said.

    I do agree that a 5.0, for the most part, should be able to play 5.0 level tennis with just about any racquet 11 oz. and up. I just think there are a lot of 3.5's, 4.0's, and even 4.5's that could benefit from using more of a tweener stick than a 12 oz more demanding stick. But I guess that's up to them.

    And ratings, I guess, should rate the player alone but we play with racquets and there's no getting around it. Some racquets benefit some people's games more than others and people shouldn't choose a racquet solely based on pride or because so-and-so uses it, etc.

    Anyway, sorry if I took your comments out of context.
     
    #49
  50. tom4ny

    tom4ny Semi-Pro

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    the % of player's today using a mid these days is very very low. 5% might be an over estimate. but they are very very sensitive and tend to harbor disdain towards the way the game is played today and the pro's who exemplify that game.
     
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