Why do Sampras fans use the "tough clay court era" excuse?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by MTF07, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Even if the 90s clay courters were better in general than the current era (minus Nadal of course), why does that matter when we are talking about a player who bowed out of Roland Garros 8 times in the 1st/2nd round out of the 13 years he played there (62%)...?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  2. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    So this really requires a whole thread. You Fedards are the most pathetic bunch on the planet.

    Psychoanalyzing Federer and Sampras on clay is useless as neither is even a top 20 clay courter all time. It is a virtual zero part of either of their legacies.
     
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  3. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Good strategy. When you don't have a valid counterpoint, call names or try to call the discussion useless.

    Nice try clubbing Sampras' non-existent clay achievements with Fed's.
     
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  4. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    You mean bowed out in R1/R2
     
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  5. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Sorry I did not ask you for your assessment on TW Federer's fan base. I already knew full well that is all you Feddies are capable of, even when it comes to other tennis champions/legends besides Federer who you wouldnt dare say a single decent word about, and even shamelessly mock and ridicule endlessly since they arent your god.
     
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  6. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    I did not give you one. Relax :)
     
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  7. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Well it seems even Fed's early elimination from USO is not enough to please Professor RalphAgassi aka granddog29. What must we do to keep him in a good mood I wonder. :lol:
     
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  8. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    How can anyone be in a good mood after reading your whine/crying posts after Federer's early exit from Wimbledon & USO? that's enough tears to overflow earth's oceans in minutes.
    :wink:
     
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  9. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    my guess is professor ralphagassi wanted ralph to inflict a beatdown on fed ( given fed's form , that was a distinct possibility ) ..... then he'd go on yapping about how rafa would easily beat prime federer at the USO too ...too bad for him it didn't happen :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  10. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    it doesnt matter what era and what excuse. Sampras is an 'also ran' as far as clay goes. As stated by another poster, really no point in talking about his clay exploits or lack there of.
     
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  11. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    If Sampras played today on clay, even challenger clay couters like Berloqc, Lorenzi, Dutra Silva, Zeballos will beat him.
     
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  12. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Sampras may not be a clay great, but let's not forget that during the first period of his prime (1992-1996), he reached one semi-final and three quarter-finals at the French, beat the likes of Bruguera and Courier in that tournament, won Rome in 1994, and defeated Kafelnikov in the DC final on clay in 1995.

    I think the people who claim that "Sampras was a nobody on clay" or "he never beat anyone on clay" should remember these facts.
     
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  13. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    This makes perfect sense. Tough clay era ended in 1996 - Sampras reached a semi and 3 quarters. The joke era began in 1997 and Sampras couldn't reach the 3rd round anymore.
     
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  14. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    No problems with that. it will dry before you get a straight face and reply to the unanswered point in the LUPICA thread....
     
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  15. President

    President Legend

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    Federer's achievements on clay are great and ability-wise he is at least equal with any of the 90's claycourters on the surface. Hell, even coexisting with Nadal (the best claycourter ever and one of the best PLAYERS overall ever, which none of the 90's pusher Spaniard crew can say) he still has racked up some very nice achievements. To put him on the same level as Sampras is a total joke, Federer's RG and other clay achievements enhance his legacy a lot.
     
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  16. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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  17. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Who cares.
     
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  18. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    He was too busy winning Wimbledon's, Davis Cups and finishing the year ranked number 1 in the world.

    You can have Sergei Brugera and his French Opens.
     
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  19. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    How many RG finals does RF have? Who did he lose to at RG?

    Your knowledge is a virtual zero methinks.
     
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  20. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    Sampras over his career was dismal on clay..

    its the reality no matter how you try and tart it up.
     
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  21. FrontHeadlock

    FrontHeadlock Semi-Pro

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    When comparing Federer, Nadal and Sampras, the biggest hole any of them has on their resumes is Sampras' performance at the French Open, and it's not even close.
     
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  22. President

    President Legend

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    Those are achievements that a good top 10 player like Tomas Berdych might have and be proud of, not an all time great...relative to his peers/betters in greatness Sampras was a total scrub on a surface that is 1/3 of the tennis calendar.
     
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  23. Top Jimmy

    Top Jimmy Semi-Pro

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    Why do Sampras fans use the "tough clay court era" excuse?

    Just so you can post another enlightening thread like this one.

    I'm under the impression 50% of you have mental issues or are utter losers. Take your pick.
     
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  24. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    This is a crappy thread.
     
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  25. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Ah yes the elusive 'Fed Cup'. Well thx for that I stand corrected. :lol:
     
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  26. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Federer certainly is in the top 20 and many ex-pro players have him at ~ #7 greatest cc of all time. Nadal is the goat on clay so the best for Roger can be is #2 in his era. Other great cc would also have to settle for #2 if they play Nadal in the same era.

    Clay results and performance does have an impact on a player's legacy. Be able to win on all surfaces is a testament of versatility, completeness. Federer won RG, made 5 finals and multiple MS. It's ridiculous to mirror Federer with Sampras who never even made one final.
     
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  27. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Someone is surely in a good mood today.
     
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  28. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Agreed--as one fluke FO title does not make him one of the great FO players--anymore than the same accomplishment does not do the same for Michael Chang. Fed fans squeal about results as a measure of historical status--as in titles won, yet when comes to the FO, they discard their own rules to add in runner-up positions--only because they know without that, he's in no "greatest" FO consideration.

    Telling.
     
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  29. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    I don't think so.
     
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  30. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    They are comparing Sampras with Federer on clay. How many FO finals did Sampras reach and how many FO's did he win? How many MS1000 events did Sampras win on clay? One! One freakin MS1000 and you're saying he's at the same level as Fed on clay.

    Haterz gonna hate I guess!
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  31. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    I notice you skipped over discussions. The point about Federer in FO history is that one fluke FO title does not make him one of the great FO players--not at all, but that's the game played by his defenders. Its more than simply saying he won a FO while Sampras did not.

    For years, his defenders--even in discussions where Sampras was not mentioned--tried to elevate one fluke FO title...and runner-up placing...to the level of one of the all time great FO players, which brings us back to results. The end result is that he won a fluke FO title, and in thst specific regard, he's no different than Chang.
     
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  32. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    So you know better than the tennis channel that rated Fed in the top 10 clay courters of all time ?
     
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  33. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    federers FO wasn't a fluke..he was unlucky to play during the era of the greatest claycourter ever otherwise Federer would have had several other French opens.
     
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  34. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    anyone who has watched 30 or more years (yep, me) of FO knows that neither sampras or fed WERE great clay courters.

    great tennis players? yes. thus......

    neither will ever win another FO, or any major for that matter.

    now pipe down, geez.
     
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  35. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Federer is a great claycourter. Nobody reaches 5 finals of a clay court major (losing 5 times to the greatest clay courter of all times) without being at least a great claycourter.
     
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  36. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    First of,placing Sampras and Federer in the same sentence, when talking about FO is ludicruous.

    Federer has 5 FO finals , numerous semis and 1 win. Sampras has 1 semi and what 8 1st/2nd round losses.

    Show me more than 10 players who have better FO record, since you are following tennis for so long.

    And dont come back with the usual crap that the current era is weak on clay or current clay is not real clay. Fed can only play on what is available. He cannot go back in time to prove himself.
     
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  37. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Its not an excuse its a FACT.

    Probably the deepest clay field in history:

    Courier, Medvedev, Chang, Bruguera, Muster, Kuerten, Kafelnikov, Agassi. The list goes on.

    Name a deeper clay field than that..

    Can you?? Im waiting...

    If Sampras (1992-1996) drew some of the CHUMP draws that Fed from 2004-2009 he would have a french open final or two himself.


    Unfortuntately for Sampras, his clay peak/prime coinciding with perhaps the strongest deepest clay field in history from 1992-1996.

    Not to mention, Sampras played on French Open courts that were as slow as Monte Carlo. You also had to make a quick transition from Rebound Ace to very slow clay in the span of a few weeks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  38. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Enough with this crap. Did he lose these players in the FO 1st and 2nd round losses ?

    How does the competition matter if you dont even get to the second week of a major ?
     
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  39. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Right in the face, hahaha.
     
    #39
  40. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    You need a tennis encyclopedia or something?

    Sampras Clay prime/peak when he played his best (During the stretch he won Rome and Davis Cup for America)

    1992- Lost to Agassi
    1993- Lost to Peak Bruguera
    1994- Lost to close to peak Courier
    1995-Bad loss
    1996 Beat Courier and Bruguera and lost to the champ Kafelnikov


    What do they all have in common? Yea French Open champs. Some won it the French more than once


    Fed fans are so CLUELESS to history. So lets eliminate those names en route to the French Open finals put guys like Starace, Horna, Davydenko, Haas etc. in place of them, and Sampras sees a few French Open finals
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  41. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sampras would have even worse result on clay in this era.
     
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  42. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    ahahaha, only 92-96 matters. easy to see this way.

    Federer defeats in the french open, from 04-11:
    Kuerten - Arguably one of the clay goats
    Nadal - The Clay GOAT.
    Söderling - The only guy able to beat Nadal in RG.

    The end.
     
    #42
  43. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Clay is much faster today which benefits guys with pace on their shots. If anything this era would help Sampras. Just like he helped guys like Soderling and Isner. One guy beat Nadal at the French (the only player ever to do so) and the other guy took Nadal to 5 sets.


    Hell Big hitters have more Luck vs. Nadal than other guys do in an era of a faster clay surface at the French
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  44. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Are you, honestly, comparing Isner and Söderling on clay?
     
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  45. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    Who cares...Put Nadal in that era and none of those chumps would win a FO....Didn't you say Nadal is the CGOAT...............Unless you're saying Nadal is the CGOAT only because he played in a weak era?


    btw....we've played this game before...

    Rosewall? Pancho? We're talking about the open era here...You're grasping at straws.

    You just said as per the numbers Nadal is the cgoat....Here is your post again:

    I'm using your logic...As per your logic, the numbers say Nadal is the cgoat even though he had weak competition.
    So that should make Fed the goat because he has the best numbers overall. 17 (Highest number of majors in open era), record number of weeks at number 1, majors on all surfaces, five consecutive majors on two surfaces, etc. etc. etc.

    Honestly I don't think there is a GOAT, but i'm just trying to follow your train of thought here...You either say that Nadal is not the CGOAT or admit Federer is the GOAT based on numbers....You cannot have it both ways.

    If Fed is not the GOAT despite his numbers, then Nadal is not the CGOAT too according to your "logic".
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  46. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Evidence that it's faster?
     
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  47. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    How do you know? He lost to Soderling, had issues with Nole. has issues with Isner.

    Yet somehow Courier, Bruguera, Muster, or Kuerten wouldn't give him trouble.

    If Nadal play in the 90s, he would be stuck with much tougher draws en route to the finals and have to play better dirt ballers than Federer in the finals. ROFLMAO
     
    #47
  48. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Clay is not slower. Hard court and grass got slower which make believe clay is faster.

    There's too many players that can beat him, let alone the top 10 cc. He'll be lucky to even make the semifinal. Sampras to win 4 straight matches at RG is a lot to ask.
     
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  49. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    He had a career of 13 years and you come up with 4 ?

    Dont even begin to compare with Fed. Novak and Murray has / will have way better record at FO.
     
    #49
  50. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Put Nadal and Federer in the 90s, none of them win the FO. Obviously Nadal would be ranked #1 and I wouldn't be surprise if Fed is #2 since he's more consistent than anyone of them.
     
    #50

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