Why do Sampras fans use the "tough clay court era" excuse?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by MTF07, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Yea four. Before his coach died. It was when Annacone took over he quit giving two craps about clay.

    Anyways.. Im not denying Fed is a better dirt baller than Sampras. I just hate when people make stupid comments like, "Sampras sucked on clay, he never accomplished" anything.. yada yada without looking at some of the facts, the era, his draws etc.


    And besides, Its not like Fed is a god on clay either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    #51
  2. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Federer's peak level on clay is only inferior to Muster and Kuerten on that list.
     
    #52
  3. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    I'm sorry when did Isner and Djokovic beat Nadal at FO? :-? Who cares how many sets it took...End result = Nadal won.

    and here is an explanation for the Soderling loss from your OWN mouth! LMAO!

     
    #53
  4. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Regardless Soderling ALSO beat Federer. And you can not tell me Soderling was a better dirt baller than ANY of Muster, Kuerten, Bruguera, or Courier.

    Hell even.. Agassi for that matter

    Isner also took Nadal 5 sets at the French.. Yea Isner.. The guy with the return game and movement of a SLUG. He was one of the few guys to ever take Rafa 5 sets at the French



    How does Isner take Nadal to 5 sets, yet Fed couldn't? Hmmm Ill tell you why because of the heavy hitting/big serving of Isner. Which IMO would probably make Sampras more possible to score an upset over Nadal at the French than Federer. Soderling also proves this theory. Mainly because of how hard he hits the ball.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    #54
  5. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    According to your OWN post, Nadal was injured! LMAO Are you going to argue with yourself now?

    You're saying Soderling gave Nadal trouble and hence would be troubled by 90's clay courters in this thread.

    In the other thread you said the only reason Soderling won is because he was injured.

    Case closed!
     
    #55
  6. 90's Clay

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    Nadal wasn't injured when Isner was taking him 5 sets. He was injured vs. Soderling but still Rafa should have won the match.
     
    #56
  7. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    At least Fed made it further than the 2nd round (see Nadal 2013 Wimbledon).
     
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  8. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    it's true.

    young tennis fans are clueless.

    not to say your fanboy fellas, glitter and sniffer aren't good....
    they are. but you never watched tennis prior to this era, other than washed out youtube videos.

    stats just don't matter, ask serena. she's the best to ever play women's tennis. no stats, just game.
     
    #58
  9. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ferrer, Nalbandian, Del Potro, Soderling, Almagro, Coria, Robredo, Wawrinka, Hewitt, and many players are better cc than Sampras.
     
    #59
  10. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    ROFLMAO.. Yea all those guys accomplished so much on clay.



    :shock::shock::shock:

    Coria-MUG, Choker (Sampras would have destroyed him at the French if it was a final). He couldn't even beat Gaudio.
    Hewitt- Seriously?? HEWITT? What the hell has that guy ever done on clay?
    Wawrinka- Whats he done?
    Almago- Whats he done?
    Robredo- Well he did beat your hero just a few nights ago at the USO (the guy he was 0-10 against ROFLMAO)

    You seriously aren't trying to compare that clay field to Bruguera, Courier, Muster, Kafelnikov, Agassi etc.??
     
    #60
  11. ubi1

    ubi1 Banned

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    I agree :lol:
     
    #61
  12. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    Wouda coulda shoulda .......So now you have to resort to five set matches to prove how much trouble Nadal would be in the 90's on clay?

    Should we draw a conclusion from Sampras' 5 set matches at Wimbledon too?
    Ok...Petr Korda took Sampras to five sets in the Round of 16 at Wimbledon in 1997.

    If Petr Korda can give Sampras so much trouble, then any player in the top 20 today would give him a tough match on grass.
    See how easy that is? :lol:
     
    #62
  13. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    All I'm saying is these guys can beat Sampras at the FO. If Sampras was constantly flaming out in the early round against mugs, certainly he can lose to these players and many more.

    Bruguera, Courier, Muster, Kafelnikov, Agassi are not as good as Nadal, Federer, Nole, Soderling, etc....
     
    #63
  14. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Coach died or dog died does not matter at the end .

    Final results shows 8 first second round losses and without even 1 major final to boot, his clay record at major STINKS.
     
    #64
  15. 90's Clay

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    The point I'm not trying to make and refuted already Sampras WASN'T flaming out in the early rounds of the French during his clay prime. It was until AFTER 96 when he started to focus on other things except clay.

    He was consistently getting to QF and a SF and losing to former French Open winners (Bruguera, Courier, Agassi, Kafelnikov)
     
    #65
  16. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    You know that Ferrer would destroy all of them, correct?
     
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  17. 90's Clay

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    Off PEDs or on them? :twisted:

    Ferrer isn't better than those 90s guys on clay. He doesn't have weapons. Its the main reason why hes like 3-10000000 vs. the top guys. No weapons
     
    #67
  18. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Agreed, and the tennischannel is about as solid a source for the sport as E! Online is for objective, hard-hitting information on entertainment...

    ...and that is true--both are great players, but not at the French Open.
     
    #68
  19. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    He only made one semifinal and only with the help of Courier who choked while being up 2 sets at the quarterfinal.

    Making quarterfinal isn't much to brag about since there's many journeyman makes quarterfinal at the slams. To be great, a player has to consistently making multiple finals.
     
    #69
  20. 90's Clay

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    To be great on a surface you need to win the whole thing a few times.

    Federer-Sampras have 1 French Open title between them.

    Case closed.. Neither are great clay court players. Good clay players (yea Sampras was good on clay) but neither great

    And actually I think Federer SHOULD have been much better on clay.. He grew up playing on the surface afterall. No one in the U.S grows up playing on clay so its more understandable why Sampras wasn't great on the surface. But Fed SHOULD have been
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    #70
  21. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    How many players in the open-era have made at least 5 FO finals ?
     
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  22. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    LMAO You're talking about those guys...Let me show you who Sampras used to lose on clay,

    Gilbert Schaller ------------ LMAO Who???? Whats he done?

    Magnus Norman ---------------- Greatest Clay courter of the 90's.............NOT! Whats he done?

    Ramón Delgado -------- Whats he done? Hewitt, Wawrinka, Almagro, Robredo, Ferrer would destroy him in their sleep

    Andriy Medvedev ---------- ROFLMAO Whats he done?

    Galo Blanco ------- Yeah Sampras would beat Hewitt, Wawrinka, Almagro, Robredo, Ferrer on clay but can't get past Blanco!

    Andrea Gaudenzi --------- This guy would've given this generations clay courters a run for their money....Just kidding...He would be destroyed!

    and these are wins after Sampras started winning majors.........LMAO I take it back...Putting Nadal in Sampras' era wouldn't make any difference whatsoever...because he wouldn't even go deep enough to get to Nadal....There is a chasm between Sampras and Federer on clay....No matter how you try to polish that turd.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    #72
  23. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    What a joke lumping Federer with Sampras. They have one title between them? Yes but it happens to be Federer's. He also has 5 finals and 6 masters. That's a good resume on the surface, especially considering he lost most of those finals versus the greatest clay courter ever.

    Federer is a great clay courter. Sampras was a decent claycourter if you look at his whole career, if he retired in 1996 he would have been a good one. But as comparing the two? They're FAR apart.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  24. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Don't you mean Fed has 1 FO, 5 finals whereas Pete has only 1 semifinal?

    To each his own. Federer is in the top 10 greatest cc of all time, I would say he's a great cc.

    Nadal won 8 RG and he's the cc goat so of course there's nothing left for the field. Any great cc wouldn't have won RG either if they play in the same era with Nadal. However, Roger is right behind Nadal, given that he win quite a few RG without Nadal.
     
    #74
  25. mellowyellow

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    He also lost to Chang in 89, the year he won it, and Norman who may have finaled that year cant remember. It was normal back then for certain types of players to lose early at the RG. The 2 Brits, Edberg, Becker, Krajicek, guys like Myrni, Larson, Roset never did well on clay in general.
    Note, Norman finaled in 2000, QF in 97 when he beat Pete, this is also before the heart surgery...
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  26. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks Omega. I was just about to list the name of the player Pete lost.

    The fact that Pete was losing to these journeyman doesn't show his vulnerability. He can lose to any player on a given day.
     
    #76
  27. 90's Clay

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    Fed shouldn't be on anyone's list of top 10 dirtballers of all time. He shouldn't even be top 20 all time
     
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  28. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Why not? He's got 5 finals, a title, a winning percentage hovering around the top 10 all time on the surface and several masters titles. All of which would be better had he not had to face Nadal so much. You can make a case for him being top 10 in the Open Era and top 20 all time easily.
     
    #78
  29. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    Care to tell us who these top 20 clay dirtballers are?
     
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  30. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Without evading the question, llist the 10 or 20 players with better FO and clay record than Federer.
     
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  31. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    Who cares? This thread is ad big a joke as Kneedulls 2013 USO draw. Should be locked as ther is no evidence to disprove that clay back then was played way different than the other surfaces. Seems today even the grass has more rallies than mid 90's USO ever did.
     
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  32. Crisstti

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    I cannot believe we actually agree about something :)
     
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  33. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    No need to compare the surface then and now.. The question is simple .. With 8 first round losses and 1 semi in a 13 year career, inspite of having one of the greatest serves, that shows how much he SUCKED on clay.

    The strong era is a bogus defense, Sampras never even made it closer to meeting the top clay guys.
     
    #83
  34. heftylefty

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    I hope you're not holding your breath.
     
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  35. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    This is easily recognizable by Borg's back to back runs. Any moron recognizes this as something special, it became even more difficult with the new racqets as it polarized styles even more. So anyone not recognizing the Clay Era as such is not recognizing Borg. There, could have saved a few pages of HS that constantly muddle this forum.
     
    #85
  36. 90's Clay

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    All time?

    Borg, Nadal, Rosewall, Wilding, Cochet, Lendl, Wilander, Kuertern, Laver, Lacoste, Vilas, Drobny, Courier, Muster, Khodes, Emerson, Bruguera, Vilas, Santana.


    ... Should I keep going??
     
    #86
  37. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    So two of the greats Pete lost too in the RG? 4 of them played in his era? Nice hole lol,
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  38. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    You prove my earlier point: using runner up placing to elevate Federer one of the great French Open players.

    He--like Chang--are settled at one FO title. Not the work of all-time great French Open players.
     
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  39. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Open era top 10 please..
     
    #89
  40. 90's Clay

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    Then it wouldn't be ALL TIME:shock::shock:
     
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  41. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    So, 4 of the greats play during Sampras era, and he comes into the pros at the end of 2 others careers. what does that tell you?
     
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  42. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    Who are the 20 players who were better on clay than Federer?

    A French Open, 4 other FO finals, 4 Hamburg, 2 Madrid, 3 Rome finals, 3 Monte Carlo finals later....still no respect on clay, I guess.
     
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  43. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    One cant discount that Pete may not have went to the last few French with intentions of doing much in hopes of being fresh for grass. Yes he talked about the desire to do well...
     
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  44. Omega_7000

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    You're cornered. LMAO

    Resorting to players from the 1920's just to make your point...Also, how do you know all these players were not playing in a weak era? What is your criteria for judging them?
     
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  45. 90's Clay

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    How am I cornered? I said Fed isn't top 20 all time on dirt and I have provided names who are greater.
     
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  46. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Agreed completely.
     
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  47. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    Why are those 20 players better than Fed on clay? :-?
     
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  48. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    The fact that Federer made 4 other RG finals proves his title was in fact NOT a fluke. That's the opposite of fluke. Now if Sampras had won the title the one year he made a good run, that would have been the very definition of fluke.

    You can thank me for this free lesson.
     
    #98
  49. 90's Clay

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    It would very well just be Fed's inability to get the best of his main rival for 10 years as well.

    Both are holes in their respective resumes when considering their greatness. Pete didn't win RG, Fed couldn't deal with his main rival
     
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  50. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    So why are those 20 players better than Federer on clay again?
     

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