Why do so many good servers THINK they carve the ball?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by HunterST, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    A good server can hit slices, topspin, top/slices, flats, and twists to all 3 quadrants of each service court.
    Using just slice, the bounce height is usually right where the returner likes it. Some players can use a combination of slice and UNDERSPIN, to keep the ball around lower thigh heights at the baseline.
    Top/slice and tops usually get the ball to bounce around 5' high at the baseline, while twists can go a bit higher, into the 6' range for good twist servers.
    I would HOPE all of you can hit all your various serves to the 3 quadrants of each court.
     
    #51
  2. Kilco

    Kilco Guest

    It seems to just be this forum but everyone is obsessed with every possible variable and every imaginable shot in tennis.
    Topspin and sidespin forehand and inside out spin, backhand slices with sidespin and from left to right and right to left. Ridiculous stuff

    Serves with twist, with topspin and slice, with pure topspin with kick.

    Even pros dont think about all this stuff.
     
    #52
  3. coolschreiber

    coolschreiber Semi-Pro

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    haha ok... let compromise
    slice+topspin=American Twist
    what do you say
     
    #53
  4. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but slice-topspin != American twist. The twist bounces in the other direction.
     
    #54
  5. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    For a rightie server, slice moves to the left after the bounce. Twist is movement to the right. It is also a different kind of motion compared to the slice serve. The slice is hit more to the right of the ball, but the twist is hit more from beneath the ball, like a conventional topspin second serve.
     
    #55
  6. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    like this?:)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6icR4QaI84
     
    #56
  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Your vid, like the other one on rolling over the ball, is just ONE Federer stroke. Tons of other ones where he rolls over the ball as he hits.
     
    #57
  8. ProgressoR

    ProgressoR Hall of Fame

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    Isn't a twist serve (or a kicker, that is what I really mean - I dont know what a twist is to be honest) just a top slice with a lot more top and slice?

    Sure the contact point is different but isn't the spin imparted just a sub set of top slice - thought a lot more top and slice, than a regular topslice?
     
    #58
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Spin is similar, but ball path is very different, resulting in the extra bounce height.
    Most top/slices go the same direction after bounce as a slice serve.
    All twists fly in one curvature, bounce, and kick off the other direction.
    Swingpath is hugely different between twist serves and top/slices, as is strikepoint location.
     
    #59
  10. ProgressoR

    ProgressoR Hall of Fame

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    Yes, the ball path is different, but isnt it different just because there is roughly the same directional spin (combination of top and slice) but just a lot more of it?

    And the swing path and strikepoint is different just so to impart this greater degree of spin. Not to impart a different kind of spin.

    This is my reading of it, coming from a cricket point of view when strong legspin (equivalent of topslice) arcs to the right then turns left upon bouncing. Like a leftie's kicker.

    Of course I could be wrong and happy to be corrected.
     
    #60
  11. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Maybe you need to try it in a tennis application.
    We can swing much faster on top/slice serves.
    Swingpath for twists go up and out, so it's harder to swing nearly as fast.
    Ball clearance on twists are usually much higher, unless you're going out wide.
    Contact point on twists is lower and more atop your head.
    While some guys can hit twist serves at maybe 90 mph, most of us barely break legal freeway speeds.
    I'm not talking from a theory background. My twists generally bounce about 5'9" high at the baseline, good ones higher, bad short ones lower of course, while my top/slices bounce maybe 4'9-5'5" high at the baseilne, and can be hit much faster than any twists.
    My first flats only bounce about 30" high at the backboard, because I have a low contact point, am relatively short, and play in sub 60 degree weather mostly. I seriously doubt they're going 100 since the start of my rock over brick project, which takes away all shoulder livelyness.
     
    #61
  12. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    But we don't really need the high speed video, do we? It only confirms what common sense tells us, i.e. that a player can't 'carver the ball'.

    Why do they think they do? Can't answer, except that alot of people have a shocking ignorance of physics. Being a good server doesn't mean you understand science.
     
    #62
  13. Kalin

    Kalin Professional

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    Weren't all those great ad-court DTL can-opener aces by Murray to save multiple BP's vs. Janowicz pretty much pure slices? Not that much speed or height, just wicked placement and enough sideways bounce to avoid the receiver

    I also feel like I'm carving the ball when I hi a slice. FWIIW I'm a 6'1.5" 4.0
     
    #63
  14. BeGreat

    BeGreat Rookie

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    A lot of tennis myths have been perpetuated by "coaches" and analysts who don't know better. This is one of them.

    The same applies to type of string material, which the same high-speed video analysis has shown wouldn't matter because the ball isn't on their long enough to "feel" the string.

    Unfortunately, on TT, people will ignore what's right in front of their eyes and continue to believe whatever allows them buy more things and improve their racket setup.
     
    #64
  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Even I can feel the difference between a soft copoly and a multi
     
    #65
  16. Kilco

    Kilco Guest

    You really confuse me a lot of the time, every time you try and be funny, I just never get it :-?
     
    #66
  17. dlam

    dlam Rookie

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    I have a huge serve
    As i been told by everyone I played in my league this past year
    I do feel like I'm carving
    Wether it's true or not doesn't matter as I am trying to get the "feel "
    Of the serve
    What I notice is that better servers use the magic of the right forearm to align with the racket face by the time the serve motion gets to the back scratch position
    It really doesn't matter how one looks in the preserve routine or beginning but by the backstratch position all good serve look in the same rhythm into impact
     
    #67

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