Why do so many pros live in Switzerland or Monte-Carlo?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by papertank, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. papertank

    papertank Hall of Fame

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    I was randomly looking at ATP profiles of the top ranked players today and I was surprised to see that a huge amount of players, if they don't still live in their birth city, live in Monte-Carlo, Monaco or somewhere in Switzerland. What makes these places so attractive to pro players?
     
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  2. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    They're extremely nice places to live and they can actually afford it. Same reason so many wealthy americans move to SoCal.
     
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  3. mikekelley

    mikekelley New User

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    That and they probably pay way less taxes there than in their home country
     
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  4. canadad

    canadad Semi-Pro

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    Lifestyle would be one reason, but I believe that residents of Monte Carlo do not pay income tax.
     
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  5. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Monaco is a well known tax haven and pros from countries with high taxation make it their official residence to save on tax. Not sure about Switzerland though, definitely can't be for tax advantage (unless there are specific regions where tax is low). Just that it is a nice place to live in.
     
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  6. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    I've heard this is true.
     
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  7. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    Ideal destinations to travel around.
     
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  8. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    Also, Switzerland has an old population and is quiet/boring so good to be there if you don't want to be disturbed by party/nightlife.
     
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  9. Numenor

    Numenor Rookie

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    Not just tennis pros. Most F1 drivers live in Monte Carlo or Switzerland. Recently Fernando Alonso moved back to Spain from Switzerland, and he had to pay a titanic sum in back taxes.
     
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  10. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    1) The beauty of those places has NOTHING to do why the pros REGISTER to live there. They spend most of their lives on Tour and back at real home places. They are just registered to live in those countries
    2) Monte Carlo is a tax heaven where taxes are extremely low or none. ND, for example, has calculated that it is better to invest into an apartment and purchase for $10+M and save in taxes, than to pay taxes in Serbia and invest those $10M somewhere else.
    3) Switzerland is a known tax heaven where rich can actually NEGOTIATE tax rate with the Government. So, end up paying very low taxes there, the Government still gets a "free money" and the Pros are still happier than paying 5x the amount somewhere else...

    Then, there are places like the USA where they "double" tax you. Therefore, none of the US pros "lives" in MC or CH. For example, if you live and work in Europe and are a Resident/Citizen of the USA, you have to pay to the IRS the difference in taxes you paid abroad, although you worked ZERO days in the USA and made money thousands of miles away. It does not work the other way around (you do not get any refund if you paid more). Believe it or not, a lot of (not all) the European countries have lower income tax than the USA... It sucks...I just experienced 2 years of that...
     
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  11. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Switzerland and Monaco, like Luxembourg and Singapore and similar, aren't real countries.

    Imagine the tax rate in Manhattan if they could divorce themselves from America.
     
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  12. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    As far as I know, this only applies to foreign citizens living in Switzerland, the Swiss pay their taxes normally (ie Federer and Wawrinka sure aren't living in Switzerland to pay less taxes...) ;)
     
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  13. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Let's not use Monaco and Monte Carlo as if they're interchangeable. Monaco is the country, Monte Carlo is one of the 5 political divisions, neighborhoods really, in Monaco. As for Monaco not being a "real country," it's actually been a politically independent entity since something like the 13th century, albeit with a treaty that calls for France to provide for its military defense. Not sure what the French get from that other than jobs -- something like 50,000 workers commute daily from mostly France and to a lesser extent Italy to work in Monaco.
     
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  14. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    I'm gonna have to go with your signature here, the answer to that question is Federer in 2.
     
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  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Can you explain what you mean by "difference in taxes"?
     
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  16. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yeah Switzerland is allowed to hoard criminal and political money from all over the world. If it had not been a Western nation, the US would have invaded it over the amount of terrorist money sitting there. It is also protected by NATO in case of war. Nice cushy position to be, making overpriced chocolates and watches no one actually needs.
     
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  17. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    #17
  18. spoutnik12

    spoutnik12 New User

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    So obviously you're talking about a place you've never gone... And by the way G. Monfils is well known in my town to be a real party banger. So not sure he's come here to be quiet.

    Most of the players who live in Switzerland are French players. They come here because of some fiscal advantages they can get. Of course they can go live in Bahamas, Singapour, etc., but France is next to Switzerland (like Monaco is). Paris is just les than 3 hours from where I live, no big problem for them.
     
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  19. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Do you think it might have something to do with 0% income tax?
     
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  20. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Fiscal paradise(s) obviously.
     
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  21. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Because they really like mountains.
     
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  22. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    TAXES (well the lack of them for a well paid athlete)
     
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  23. jmjmkim

    jmjmkim Semi-Pro

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    A lot of pro golfers line in Florida. I wonder it Florida has some tax breaks too ....
     
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  24. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Yes like Texas no state income tax, when you make $$$$$$ that 3.5 to 10% is huge - also cost of living much lower overall than west coast. Add the weather factor and the abilyt to play year round it's a no brainier why so many golf and tennis pro live there.
     
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  25. roysid

    roysid Professional

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    So it's respectful for Nadal and Murray to stay in their own country and pay good amount of taxes.

    Murray is a miser anyway so for him it doesn't matter. And Rafa- there was some report of him not paying taxes.

    I wonder what Federer's tax statement would be. He stays half the the time in Dubai. Does he pay tax there too
     
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  26. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    He is? There was me thinking he lived in £5M mansion in the Surrey stockbroker belt and the story about him buying his brother a house as a wedding present was true.
     
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  27. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    and yodel...
     
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  28. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    ROTFL.

    It's clear that they wish to be close to the spot where God was born.
     
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  29. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    In Switzerland you get reduced price Toblerone
     
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  30. Emet74

    Emet74 Professional

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    Re Nadal: he pays Spanish taxes. He got into some trouble because he'd set up a bunch of companies in the Basque region which has special tax breaks but a govt investigation later concluded the businesses didn't have enough community ties to deserve the breaks - Nadal has relocated the companies to Mallorca and paid the extra money the tax authorities requested.

    Fed: Dubai has no income tax. Fed is a swiss resident and pays tax as a swiss. Like United States tax rate can vary depending on where you live and the neighborhood where Fed lives has pretty low rates compared to other regions.
     
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  31. jack crack

    jack crack New User

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    No income tax?
    Great climate?
    Awesome history/architecture/activities/quality of life?
    You can speak spanish, italian, french, english and who knows what else and have communication problems?
    The Mediterranean?
    The Mountains?
    The beautiful people?
    Lowest poverty rate in the world?
    Most per capita millionaires and billionaires in the word?
    Awesome stuff like f1 races in the streets?
    Safe, not a constantly war torn country?
    Nothing in the way of a communist uprising and being terrorist target?

    The real question is not why pros live there. It's how much they must hate being away!
     
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  32. ThePerfectMan (unlike me)

    ThePerfectMan (unlike me) New User

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    Effectivement c'est tout à fait ça :)
     
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  33. ThePerfectMan (unlike me)

    ThePerfectMan (unlike me) New User

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    And I'm not a real person I guess. You say that very often, care to elaborate for once? What are the criteria for a real country?
     
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  34. Numenor

    Numenor Rookie

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    You know batz, I'm surprised that Murray still lives in the UK. He could easily have followed the lead of Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton in moving out and buying an apartment at Monte Carlo. I'm impressed that he hasn't done that (yet).
     
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  35. daddy

    daddy Legend

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    Taxes are lowest and you make a lot of friendships with powerfull people who you can work with once your career is over, for example Djokovic was honoured with something by prince Albert of Monaco just recently. Its not just tennis, Shumacher and many other champion chose MC, since you obviously make more money and get a ton of benefits.
     
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  36. laughingbuddha

    laughingbuddha Rookie

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    They live in Monte Carlo to discover Djokovic's secrets and in Switzerland to discover Federer's secrets. They do not live in Spain because everybody knows the Dear Uncle's secrets- doping, MTOs, injury-faking, moon-balling, stalling, taking a bathroom break before the opponent's match point, on-court coaching, etc.
     
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  37. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Answer to the real question is that the weather is awful and Federer trains in Dubai. Others train in Florida, California, Spain, etc.
     
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  38. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    They also don't like to touch any of the things that he has touched with his fingers
     
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  39. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    A place where convicts were shipped or something like that. :):)

    Also, kangaroos and wallabies. Does Switzerland have kangaroos?
     
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  40. AM95

    AM95 Hall of Fame

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    this is a stereotype and is absolutely not true.
     
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  41. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Sorry, missed this one...
    The US Citizens/residents have to pay the difference in taxes they paid in the country they work and the taxes they would pay in the USA if they earned the same amount. Of course, you get nothing (credit) back if you paid more taxes in the country you work.

    For example, I worked in 2010/11/so far in 12 in the Czech Republic where the income tax is flat, 15% and limited to certain amount. The US income taxes are higher than that, therefore, we ended up paying a pretty big amount (a value of a car) to the IRS last year...
     
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  42. analysis_king

    analysis_king Rookie

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    same reason why mitt romney keeps his money in switzerland...
     
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