Why does Andy lose speed on his serve in the 5th set.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TacoBellBorderBowl1946, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    I believe Andy will win Wimbledon this year, but he has to overome losing speed on his serve. It seems the longer the match goes, the more speed he loses. This was evident in the Gasquet match, as he served a lot faster in the 3rd than 5th set. He must solve this problem somehow before Wimby.
     
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  2. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Could it be that he looses speed because he's tired?

    Try running around and serving 100+ mph serves for 3-4 hours - takes alot of energy. Even the most fit tennis players have some fatigue in a 5-setter.
     
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  3. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    Yes, but how come Sampras never loses the speed? Also, last year Federer was serving just as hard in the 5th set in the final against Nadal as he was in the first. It must be something else.
     
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  4. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Fed does not serve nearly as hard as Roddick does. Not even close.

    I would even dare say that Roddick serves harder than Sampras. Sampras served hard and probably had the deadliest second serve in history, but he never even held the record for fastest serve in his time.


    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2004-02-06-roddick-record_x.htm

    Fastest serves

    The fastest recorded serves in tennis history:

    Andy Roddick, U.S., 150 mph, 2004 Davis Cup
    Andy Roddick, U.S., 149 mph, 2003 Queen's Club
    Greg Rusedski, Britain, 149 mph, 1998 Indian Wells
    Taylor Dent, U.S., 144 mph, 2001 Wimbledon
    Mark Philippoussis, Australia, 142.3 mph, 1997 Dusseldorf
    Gilles Elseneer, Belgium, 140 mph, 2003 Basel
    Julian Alonso, Spain, 140 mph, 1997 Long Island
     
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  5. Stchamps

    Stchamps Banned

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    Why can't I be a professional tennis player?
     
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  6. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    because you suk?
     
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  7. Forehand Forever

    Forehand Forever Professional

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    Andy's gotten 155 mph.
     
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  8. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    There is absolutely no way Roddick will win Wimbledon this year, he doesn't have the consistency or the mental and he's just back from injury. You're dreaming!
     
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  9. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

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    It must be the fact that Roddick serves much harder than either Sampras or Federer. Federer probably averages in the 110s-120s, and Sampras probably averaged in the 120s. Roddick averages in the 130s, frequently serving 140s during a "normal" game.

    Let's also consider the fact that Sampras served-and-volleyed a lot, meaning his biggest movement was up to the net. He did not chase balls from the baseline and hit a heavy forehand like Roddick does.**(Read note) Roddick puts just as much power into his forehands as he does his serves. That adds to fatiguing faster.

    And on the Federer note, Federer is a very lean player and he doesn't average that tremendously. Plus, he doesn't "gun" his second serves as much (just the occassional to throw his opponent off). He uses more kick on his serves than he does sheer power.

    It's basic mechanics. The more force you put on every shot, the more it takes out of you. What happens when your energy is taken out of you for 3+ hours in a 5-set match? You have less energy for that 5th set. Hence, you're tired.

    **Note: Before anyone starts firing away at me that I'm insulting Sampras by not giving him credit for his baseline game, you're wrong. I do not deny Sampras's court abilities (he obviously had to be able to play proficiently all around to get to the level he got to). However, I was making a point that Sampras does not play at the baseline hitting a heavy forehand AS MUCH AS Roddick does. Baselining requires more running left and right than serve-and-volleying, which contributes to faster fatigue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2008
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  10. wangs78

    wangs78 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with Blade's comments.
     
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  11. shwetty[tennis]balls

    shwetty[tennis]balls Rookie

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    Wow, are you serious? Do they not teach common sense and logic in school these days. Why does a driver fall asleep behind the whell? Why does a pitcher get relieved by another pitcher in late innings? You have got to be kidding! Really a stupid question. I'm blown away by the fact that you even asked this! The adage that there are no stupid questions is constantly being challenged with the likes of these posts. Why don't you serve 120-130+ mph over the course of 3 hours and see if you can't keep your serves top speed, Einstein!
     
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  12. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Who gives a **** about his fastball.The guy aint winning anything.
     
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  13. iamke55

    iamke55 Professional

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    It's funny how the people with the most posts are all trolls, annoying, and bad at tennis.

    Well, apart from the teaching pros who give helpful insight in the Tennis Instruction forum.
     
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  14. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Hey iam, your the biggest one here.Your post dont make any sense.Your a Fed basher.
     
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  15. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    I would have thought that you are right, that Roddicks new pusher game, where 20 shot rallies are the norm), is much more energy sapping than his old power game, where rallies usually consited of about 4 shots max.

    Why don't you check out Roddicks 2004 final with Fed in Wimbledon and see if his service speed dropped off?, if not, that would prove your theory.
     
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  16. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    That's extremely out-dated and un-accurate. I'm keeping service speed records for quite some time now. Lemme find my charts and be right back ;)
     
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  17. jmsx521

    jmsx521 Hall of Fame

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    Roddick does serve harder than Sampras on consistent basis... come-on tennis fans, it's not that difficult to recognize that. Sampras' serve however was more fluid than Roddick's... in addition to his whole game as well. So let's say both are at the 3rd hour in a 5th set: By that time Roddick's less-fluid (more rigid) game would have burned more energy than Sampras. It's not a whole lot different than aerodynamics in cars: A car that is less aerodynamic requires the engine to work harder because of the bigger drag created. More fluid serves require less energy...no!? Roddick's ball, not only on the serve but the ground-strokes as well, is more muscled than fluid.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2008
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  18. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Roddick's serve would be great if he was winning but he is not.
     
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  19. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

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    Good point. Four years ago though he was 22. He's seen much more wear and tear since then. I hope that's a valid point; it is certainly a "go-to" argument for me since you're right that that match does disprove my generalization.
     
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  20. Ryoma Kun

    Ryoma Kun Semi-Pro

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    Just a note about fed and many other pros...

    most of the time they are not serving 100%. Usually 75-80% to maintain good consistency.

    Rod-Dick on the other hand relies heavily on his serve and tries to muscle it as hard as he can, thus fatiguing his serving muscles faster.
     
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  21. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Good point.The guy tries to hit it as far as he can.The one thing also is that his placement sucks.
     
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  22. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Top10 fastest servers of all time

    1) Andy Roddick (USA) 155 mph
    2) Chris Guccione (AUS) 154.10 mph
    3) Ivo Karlovic (CRO) 153 mph
    3) Illia Bozoljac (SRB) 153 mph
    3) Taylor Dent (USA) 153 mph
    6) John Isner (USA) 151 mph
    7) Greg Rusedski (GBR) 149 mph
    8) Marat Safin (RUS) 147.30 mph
    9) Gael Monfils (FRA) 146 mph
    10) Ivan Ljubicic (CRO) 145 mph

    There you go :)
     
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  23. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    andy murray has served 145mph too.
    I think dr Ivo will break Roddicks record on championship point in wimbledon, by about 15mph.




    edit:When did Safin hit 147mph?????

    he's usually 125-135 tops.
     
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  24. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Davis Cup. Saw him with my own eyes. Served three 140+ in that match: 141, 144 and 147 at last.

    I saw Murray's 145 serve and looked like a gun malfunction, like Safin's 160 mph serve two years ago.
     
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  25. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    I think davis cup guns are rigged.Everybody seems to serve their fastest ever there.I think All of Roddicks records were hit in Davis Cup.Same with Grand slam guns, (see Roland Garros for example).
     
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  26. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    That's cause Getronics guns are probably the most accurate of them all.
     
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  27. purple-n-gold

    purple-n-gold Professional

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    With the emphasis on mechanics,Sampras and Fed much more fluid motions and Rod very explosive thus more tiresome over the course of a long match.
     
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  28. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    but if they give a higher mph for serves than the normal, then how can we say someone has broken the record?,
    or hit their fastet ever serve?
     
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  29. andyroddick1

    andyroddick1 Rookie

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    Roddick was disheartened in the match against Gasquet and was losing his focus. He has played some great five sets though. He has gone to 17- 15 and 21- 19 before.
     
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  30. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Roddick would kill to have Sampras's serve.
     
    #30
  31. DashaandSafin

    DashaandSafin Hall of Fame

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    Wow. Just because you're legend status doesn't mean you can go trolling about. Seriously this is the definition of a troll. The sh*t you're spewing out has nothing to do with the thread. You should know better by now being here 3 years. If you want to troll try MTF.
     
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  32. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Thats not being a troll, its stating the facts.What has Roddick doned?He is a good player but i am trying to state the obvious here.Quit telling me what i should post.I will assure u that i am not the biggest Roddick fan because he is a jerk on the court but i respect the guy but to me he is like the rest of the players in the atp after Federer, Nadal and Djoker.
     
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  33. MariaS

    MariaS Semi-Pro

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    Everyone knows that when you're tired, it's the first thing to go....your serve that is. :-|
     
    #33
  34. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    the motion that Roddick serves tires the arm much more than the proper motion that Sampras and Federer have.

    Roddick uses so much of his arm that by 5th set, his arm can't swing that fast any more and will double fault sometimes and lose speed.
     
    #34
  35. ndtennis

    ndtennis Rookie

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    Wouldn't you???
     
    #35
  36. samster

    samster Legend

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    I give this thread 1 star out of 5.
     
    #36
  37. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    hey ace of hearts, what have you done? Roddick has done more than you'll ever do. Why don't go to the "Federer Rules" forum instead, idiot.

    a$$wipe.
     
    #37
  38. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Shut up taco ****.U should have the last 4 words in Roddick's last name.Rod-dick is irrevelent just like all your Rod-dick post.
     
    #38
  39. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    You should add this one to the list too DashaandSafin.

    He just like the rest of of the players after the atp? He did beat all 3 of them this year.... 2 even consecutively.
     
    #39
  40. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Add this one tooooooooooo.
     
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  41. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Like i am gonna listen to a guy who has fluffy as his SN,lol.
     
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  42. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Maybe you don't realize but serving consistently in the upper 130s and 140s takes a huge toll on his body. I'd be surprised if he could even get it into the 140s as usual considering his recent shoulder injury.
     
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  43. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    Andy has served up to 155 mph, but he has even stated that he now prefers placement over power on his serve. This has helped him construct points better this year, and will be vital for him to go far in two weeks.

    ACE of Hearts, it's time you get some friends buddy. Now go cry in a corner you irrevelant little tool.

    PS- Hope you loved the June 8th Fed Massacre. More is still to come.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008
    #43
  44. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Hey taco,go suck Andy.I am not gonna get into a discussion with a little boy.Just post something thats revelant.That is all.
     
    #44
  45. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    Actually, this is his best year since 2004, so far.
     
    #45
  46. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    Why are you responding on my thread then? As I stated before, you are better suited to the Federer forums. If you don't have anything constructive to add then get off!
     
    #46
  47. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Shut up.Your post are irrevelent.Get off these boards.
     
    #47
  48. TacoBellBorderBowl1946

    TacoBellBorderBowl1946 Professional

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    arrogant tool........ i'm not surprised that your the biggest joke on these forums. Go reply at another thread you headcase.
     
    #48
  49. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Your such an a-hole.I wished u got kicked off these boards.I will never waste my time again on u, u a-hole.
     
    #49
  50. daddy

    daddy Legend

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    One word - stamina. You can not keep hiting the 150+ miles all day long. Im exausted after a six deuces on my serve, imagine a 5 setter with a lot of tight games on your serve, when you heavily depend on it ?
     
    #50

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