Why does he use a starting clamp?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by David123, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifpg...p=1E4A64F96BF219BC&playnext_from=PL&index=181 (part 1)

    In this video the person is using the Alpha Revo 4000. The machine that i will most likely end up getting. Now i have 3 questions.

    1. How come he just doesnt use one of this fixed clamps to clamp the beginning string but uses a starting clamp. Which do you reccomend for a better stringing job?

    2. I see he hasnt tensioned the first string but just pulled on it manually. Yulitle tensions it then clamps. Which one will end up producing a better stringing job? Or does it not matter?

    3. Why is he saying that the string feels rough at the beginning after he tensions it? Something wrong with the gripper? or is it the machine? (In addition after he played around with the screw, at 1:32) in the part 2 (below) he says he doesn't think there should be any hard part to the string, and after he adjusts the screw he says its a bit better) :S is it just his machine?

    Also in this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss5HdTnNqM0&feature=related (part 2)

    at 0:18 he mentions a problem. Is it supposed to happen on all Revos if so what are the effects? are they big or not? he says it will change the tension a bit?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
    #1
  2. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    I don't really get why he's using a starting clamp to start the mains. I always do what I saw in a Yulitle video, which is pull both mains at once, clamp one of them with a fixed clamp, then pull the other to start mains. I've always been happy with that method, and it's Yulitle sanctioned!

    http://www.youtube.com/yulitle#p/u/41/1NDlkeJ5E4U
     
    #2
  3. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    Also does he tension the knot properly? it seems like he's pulling the main string too hard upwards? (Part 2 at 3:52)

    Also last question. When tying ending knots. Are you supposed to go over, under and through the same way twice? or the second way the opposite way?
     
    #3
  4. 10ACE

    10ACE Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,170
    1) I wouldn't use a starting clamp like that because it can scratch or mess with the frame. I would and use a fixed clamp. and do both string at the same time.

    2) Yulites

    3) this happens his gripper might be loose and it pulls a bit before truly gripping the string. I get this when I go from a 1.20 to a 1.10- I need to tighten the gripper or else it slips too much.
     
    #4
  5. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    The tie-off seems /generally/ correct, in that he has the arching motion to pull up the slack. Though, since he has a starting clamp, he should really be using that instead of pliers.
     
    #5
  6. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,885
    Location:
    Northern NJ, USA
    This technique, as 10Ace mentioned, is not a good one as it can damage both the racquet and the string, especially if the starting clamp slips. Stick with Yulitle methods and you cannot go wrong.

    It's not that something is wrong with the gripper, he just has it adjusted too loosely and it's slipping with the diamond dust scaring the string. You want to make sure that the gripper is set will enough to hold the string without crushing it or letting it slip. It's just an adjustment issue.

    Again not a real problem, but one that can happen with crank machines when the string length shortens as you get to the end of the mains or crosses in a frame. A small adjustment in where the frame is mounted will fix this issue.

    Another thing that I had issue with was the way he mounted the frame and tightened the supports. You want to tighten the supports simultanously from opposite sides to make sure you have equal pressure on both sides of the frame. This will limit any frame distortion equally.

    Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
     
    #6
  7. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Because using the center clamp to start the mains could damage the center clamp, and puts undo stress on it. (However, not in the method used by yulitle)

    As for yulitles method, it is a sound method, but pulling tension on both strings,clamping just one, and then releasing both strings accomplishes absolutely nothing. One could easily just clamp the string (without pulling both) and accomplish the same thing.

    Here is Ron Yu of Priority One stringing one of Murray's frames. Note the use of the starting clamp to start the mains.

    http://downloads.lta.org.uk/webservices/video/video7.html
     
    #7
  8. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,859
    Location:
    A green and pleasant land
    Rick

    on the UKRSA Pro Stringers course you use both a machine clamp and a starting clamp, the benefit being that the machine clamp doesn't take all the pressure. You pull both centre mains, clamp the long side away from the tension head and the short side near the tension head - the starting clamp backs this one up. You then release and pull only the short side main - as you pull a little tension release the clamp base on that string and the clamp will slide as the extra creep is taken out of the string as it reaches full tension. clamp off here and you have true tension on your mains. A little Liam Nolan magic!!!
     
    #8
  9. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    ^^Ash, thanks for the explanation on that. I remember Liam trying to explain it on the UKRSA website, and I wasn't able to follow his explanation. LOL

    However, yulitle does not do this methdod. His method of starting the mains is very different. As stated, I never really understood the rational for starting mains the way he does. The Liam method seems very sound. I'll try it out, and check out the DT to see if get a different reading than the method I use.
     
    #9
  10. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,859
    Location:
    A green and pleasant land
    ^^^ No worries, I was hoping that would make sense!!!

    You can either put the starting clamp directly behind the machine clamp or outside the frame (my preference as it means one piece of the main string doesn't take all the strain of both clamps). Also, when pulling the short side main on it's own wrap around the diablo twice so that a fresh part of the string is in the tension head.
     
    #10
  11. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    ^^Excellent tip about wrapping twice. Good stuff!
     
    #11
  12. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    This feels like a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway:

    When you say the starting clamp backs up the machine clamp, does that mean it is in front of or behind it? In other words, would the starting clamp be closest to the frame, w/ the machine clamp next? Or would the machine clamp be closes to the frame, and the starting clamp next?

    It would seem to me that the starting clamp needs to be closest to the frame, otherwise, the machine clamp is still taking all the force; it just has a starting clamp banging into it as well.... unless I'm /completely/ misreading your description, which is possible.
     
    #12
  13. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    Why do you need to pull both mains at the start when you're only clamping one with fixed clamps?
     
    #13
  14. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,859
    Location:
    A green and pleasant land
    I tend to go on the outside of the frame, but you would put the starting clamp behind the machine clamp (machine clamp nearer the frame). It helps stop any string slip through the machine clamps - very useful when stringing soft multi's which may mark up (ghosting) or even be damaged if the main clamps are too tight - there's a lot of pressure on those first pulls.

    I know Paul (Uk_skippy) doesn't like the starting clamp on the outside of the frame as the part of the string that gets clamped forms the loop through the next grommet and could therefore be more succeptable to breaking in the grommet but I've never had that issue.
     
    #14
  15. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    Honestly, I don't know. After reading some of the other comments on here, it really /doesn't/ seem like it accomplishes anything.

    I just follow what I saw in Yulitle's video, but I'm beginning to think that on this particular case, his method doesn't offer anything special.

    That link to the guy stringing Andy Murray's video actually had me tempted to try the starting clamp method!
     
    #15
  16. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    yeah i dont understand where to exactly put the starting clamp. Is it outside of the frame on the short side? and which do you clamp first? and i still don't understnad? arent the clamps meant to take pressure? or is the first intial pressure bad?
     
    #16
  17. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    That first video you posted seems to show how to do it, though it is a bit nauseating to watch due to the "camera work."
     
    #17
  18. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    oh the way hes doing it is the way ash proposed?
     
    #18
  19. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    Ya got me... Without seeing a video, I don't think I can get my head around how Ash proposed doing it.

    I wonder if you could:

    Clamp with a starting clamp outside the frame
    Pull tension on that center main that you clamped w/ the starting clamp
    Clamp with machine clamp (near the tension head)
    Lace and pull next main (say the "right" side)
    Clamp with machine clamp
    Pull tension on string with starting clamp
    Remove starting clamp
    Clamp with machine clamp
    Lace and pull "left" main

    Go from there?

    But I don't know. I'm just making stuff up, right there! Don't listen to me :p

    EDIT: The more I think about this, the more I think "Mmmm... No." :)

    EDIT 2: No? No. I don't know. What do I know?!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
    #19
  20. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,047
    Location:
    Waterlooville, Hampshire, UK
    This has come up before and I created a page to show different starting methods - www.theracquetstringer.co.uk/startingclamppage.htm

    Ash, I never had this problem while I was using it, but I now prefer my method. I don't want to risk doing it when I'm stringing with thin gauge gut, or as in the case of some pro's, using high tensions and I'm talking 72/74lbs re:V. Spadea or J. Meltezer. I don't have a problem with anyone else using this method, I just prefer my method.

    Regards

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
    #20
  21. decades

    decades Guest

    what do you mean back up the machine clamp? where does the starting clamp go when you are backing up the machine clamp? thanks
     
    #21
  22. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,340
    On many fixed clamps, the machines clamp is approx. 2 inches long that it clamps the string. If you pull both strings, and clamp the anchor string with the one machine clamp, then the string inside that 2 inches of the machines clamp has some tension on it, otherwise there is no tension at all on those 2 inches of string, granted when you pull tension and release that clamp, the tension is applied, but how much of that 2 inches draws back to the previous string, so in essence it gives some tension to the string thats inside the clamp, and if you also back up the anchor clamp with a starting clamp as many do (as that first pull is the most force on a clamp during the entire stringing process), with a starting clamp it even adds more length to the amount of untensioned string inside both clamps, as compared to pulling both mains and setting the anchor clamp.Then pull each string and ttension each.Hope this makes sense.
     
    #22
  23. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    Paul,

    Why place the starting clamp on 2LM and pull tension on 1LM as opposed to:

    Place starting clamp on 1LM and pulling tension on 1RM?
     
    #23
  24. Virtua Tennis

    Virtua Tennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    576
    The way yulittle starts its kinda pointless to pull the 2 strings then only clamp one side. Unless you want to prestretch the 2 center strings but even then it does nothing.

    I usually clamp one of the center strings on the outside of the frame not from the inside just so I don't damage the frame or grommet.
     
    #24
  25. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,340
    I clamp inside the racquet as normal with the machines fixed clamp, and never damaged the frame or grommet yet. I have strung a lot of racquets.The knot will disfigure a grommet more than any clamp would, and if the clamp is fixed, it would not rub against the racquet to damage anything anyways.

    As I mentioned earlier, YULitles method places some tension on the string thats basically inside the clamp itself, which is approx. 2 inches, and even more length if its backed up with a starting clamp.
     
    #25
  26. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    Thanks for this Paul.
     
    #26
  27. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    No this did not make sense unfortunately :S what 2 inches of string?
     
    #27
  28. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    Oh now i get it Thanks Jim. So you will basically lose some tension if you don't tension the first two mains. And Jim are you referring to the way the guy does it in the vid? do you reccomend it over just using fixed clamps?
     
    #28
  29. sstchur

    sstchur Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    OH! I totally get this!

    So, actually then, if you were REALLY anal, you could make the same case for the staring clamp method, right? Albeit, only about 1/2 inch instead of 2 inches.

    So couldn't you pull both mains at once, clamp with your starting clamp (so that that 1/2 inch within the staring clamp is tensioned) and then proceed as normal?

    Granted, I'm not necessarily suggesting that you SHOULD or NEED to do this, but I'm asking more about the principle of the thing.
     
    #29
  30. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    yeah i get it too and thats what i am thinking too. So start it the exact same way the guy does in the vid except just tension both main strings?
     
    #30
  31. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,859
    Location:
    A green and pleasant land
    Fair enough :)

    I can see how with gut or at a really high tension this could put undue stress on this part of the string.
     
    #31
  32. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,810
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    So you won't damage the string. With tension on the string it will be straight through the clamp, it will not slip as bad when you pull tension on the next string, and will not ride up (or down) when you release the clamp.

    Irvin
     
    #32
  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida

    Just wanted to provide a quick update. I popped the strings on my frame last night, and tried this method last night. DT reading is the same as using the method I use.

    Thanks for the clarification of Liam's method. One more thing I learned. :)
     
    #33
  34. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,859
    Location:
    A green and pleasant land
    ^^^ good to know.

    Cheers Rick.

    Ash
     
    #34
  35. TearSNFX

    TearSNFX Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Because he uses a lockout machine he's trying to minimize tension loss. I have tested your mentioned method by pulling both strings and clamping them both. Then pulling on 1 of the strings then releasing one clamp and found the tension to start going up from the mid 30's. Also tested by clamping one side and pulling tension and then clamping the pulled side and proceeded to pull the strings from the other main and noticed it started about 5 ~ 10 pounds below the tension. Considering I can get away with being lazy since I have a continuous pull stringer but the person in the video uses that hand crank machine with a lock out mechanism which doesn't pull anymore once it is locked. Just my 2 cent.
     
    #35
  36. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,885
    Location:
    Northern NJ, USA
    Missing........

    I think you are missing the point in Yulitle's method. The reason he is pulling both mains is to set the clamp on the string. In other words when you pull the first mains the string will get thinner (eg 1.30g could become 1.25g depending on string type), so this helps to set the clamp so that you avoid slippage and ruin the string. Hope this helps.

    Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
     
    #36
  37. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    Wait, isn't it so that you can actaully tension the string? because with no clamp or starting clamp, the string will just slide through one grommet to the other lol.
     
    #37
  38. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,880
    So when i get my Revo like his i should use his method right? the guy in the video's method?
     
    #38
  39. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,810
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    No you have it completely wrong. With the tension set in the clamp you will have a much less chance of damaging it. I have messed up some gut and soft multip by not setting the tension in the clamp. Remember you are pulling two strings at once so only hald the tension is on each string. It has nothing to do with tension.

    Irvin
     
    #39
  40. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,810
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Sure that is it I think you have it now. Which one of the for videos are you talking about?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifpg...p=1E4A64F96BF219BC&playnext_from=PL&index=181
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss5HdTnNqM0&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/yulitle#p/u/41/1NDlkeJ5E4U
    http://downloads.lta.org.uk/webservices/video/video7.html
    http://www.theracquetstringer.co.uk/startingclamppage.htm

    Irvin
     
    #40
  41. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,047
    Location:
    Waterlooville, Hampshire, UK
    With my method the 1st 2 strings that are tensioned are the centre two. If I put the starting clamp on 1lm and tensioned 1rm, the machine clamp would be at the other end of the frame. If that were the case then you could either thread and tension 2rm and move the machine clamp back up the frame, or tension 1lm. By doing the 2nd scenario it could be difficult to have both machine clamps at the same end of the frame hold tension of 1lm & 1rm.

    There's no reason why you could use the 1st method Ive mentioned, but I've decided to start the mains in the manner that I do.

    What I also do, as I have swivel machine clamps (Star 4), is that when i tension 1lm with the starting clamp on 2lm, i use the righthand machine clamp to clamp 1lm. Then when ive tensioned 1rm I move that clamp to hold tension on 1rm. Then I'll tension 2rm and hold tension with the same clamp. Finally I'll tension 2lm and hold tension with the left hand machine clamp. Hope this is clear.

    Regards

    Paul
     
    #41
  42. TearSNFX

    TearSNFX Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    I'm not telling you what to do with your stringer. It's up to you to decide what you like best. Experiment with your stringing it's the only way to get good at it. Good as in making recommendations to potential clients and finding settings for yourself through massive trial and errors.
     
    #42

Share This Page