Why does no one topspin their volleys?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by _craze, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Computer rated 4.5? Or self rate?

    I dunno. I don't know all that many 4.5s, but I have yet to see any with, erm, *creative* strokes.
     
    #51
  2. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    good point cindy.
    but remember, his volleys were 'unreturnable'.
     
    #52
  3. psv255

    psv255 Professional

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    OP: I think it would help your cause (and our understanding) greatly if you could capture yourself demonstrating several of these volleys.

    Never heard of topspin volleys, and can only imagine in what kind of desperate situations one would attempt such a shot.
     
    #53
  4. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    First time I've seen somebody trying to learn tennis from a video game. are you cereals?

    Go do some yoga or something.
     
    #54
  5. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Either way, I'll be at the net once I hit the volley. If I can't handle I ball hit right at me, I deserve to be passed or hit.

    But I can. I also don't play doubles. Used to, but not anymore. I prefer to rely on my own skill - I don't like trusting others to do the job.


    I can hit a topspin volley in approaching, but, and no offensive, I'm willing to bet money on my slice (at least the backhand) being among the top 5 of all posters here. If a ball is hit with topspin, it's more than likely coming back at above net cord level, and it's harder to tee off of a topspin shot anyway.

    I could approach with slicing, but that's not the point of this thread. I said "volley," not half-volley. Half-volleys, I rarely hit anyway. I usually take a groundstroke off of them. But I can slice them.


    Who says topspin can't go far? Since when did this theme become a fact? You guys need to practice the shot - *I* never really did, but I can consistently get the ball near the baseline, or on the line, kicking off the court. If your ball isn't going past the service line, you've messed up.

    Let the opponent's pace govern the power you get. Add it if necessary. All you do is control the direction, and maybe take some pace off if needed.

    As I said, I lost *one* point from the net. One.

    Computer rated 4.5? Or self rate?


    I dunno. I don't know all that many 4.5s, but I have yet to see any with, erm, *creative* strokes.


    I see many pros with "creative" strokes. And below the 5.0 mark, there is much more variety anyway. Maybe if more people actually came to the net, one would see more shots like these...like by McEnroe, or Edberg, or Sampras, etc.

    I'm self-rated. And I don't rate myself lightly. I always seemed to go back a level every winter, due to lack of hitting. Now, though, I'm still getting at least 5 hours a week. 9 PM to 11 PM isn't bad, eh?

    Things stopping me from being a 5.0:

    -Can't see as well as I should, with 20/100 vision, and I hate using glasses and contacts. I still see fairly well on most shots, but my reaction time isn't as good as it could be. I'm half as good, once the sun goes down.

    -I messed up my wrist in an embarrassing accident; my serve has degraded since. I may get a personal serving coach.

    -Getting only 4-5 hours of sleep a day.

    -Rarely eating anything.

    -Not working out.

    -My racquet - a Liquidmetal Rave with no grip, just TournaGrip. That's my main racquet. The other two are much different. I'm saving up for a mid, though.


    I still plan on getting there, eventually. And when the HS team starts, I'll- oh wait:

    -Being bored. Pushers and any lack of hitting on the court bores me and hitting constant winners bore me. Strange, huh? Probably my biggest flaw as a player.

    I'll still get it all done, come the season, but hopefully smoothly.
     
    #55
  6. _craze

    _craze New User

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    And so the first wave of keyboard warriors has arrived.

    Do you worst. I'm ignoring pathetic posts because I'm serious, here.
     
    #56
  7. _craze

    _craze New User

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    "Desperate"? I'm an offensive player.

    As I said, you'll have to wait or try it out yourself; I have to babysit tomorrow and Thursday is probably when I'll next go out.

    I'm baffled that it seems only 10% of this board has heard of this shot. No offense, but it's just the opposite of a slice volley. You can flatten it, slice it, or topspin it.
     
    #57
  8. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    so craze-when can we see this video of you only losing 1 point with your awesome volleys?
     
    #58
  9. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    So your topspin volley hit with a continental grip has enough topspin on it that it makes it hard to tee off on? that's pretty impressive.
     
    #59
  10. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Thursday, I said.
     
    #60
  11. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    oh no! i am going to miss the comments. thanks! i might try this.......
     
    #61
  12. _craze

    _craze New User

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    No, I didn't really hit with it. I told you it's been a while, so I didn't completely remember how I hit it.

    After I was warmed up, though, I went for the net points and used EE-SW grip on the forehand. You can volley with any grip, though Eastern or Continental is ideal.


    But let me ask you this: if a good topspin groundstroke is hard to tee off, why would an even faster topspin volley hit from the net suddenly be weaker and unable to pass the service line?

    If one can't get their volley past that point (slice, flat, topspin; *anything*), their technique is flawed or they're getting pummeled.
     
    #62
  13. _craze

    _craze New User

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    It's advised. Even if it doesn't work the first time, there's definitely more margin for error.

    Although I will admit hitting the angles is harder with it: it requires more brushing and touch. But the results are better. It's harder to react to this shot; at least as I hit them.
     
    #63
  14. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    i don't think topspin is hard to tee off of. a good slice is harder to tee off of.

    nobody said a topspin volley can't be hit past the service line. we are saying that it can't be hit reliably or accurately and will be slower than a slice and easier to attack since it will sit up.
     
    #64
  15. _craze

    _craze New User

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    To each his own, then. Depends on how much sidespin the slice contains.

    It won't "sit up" if hit right. It'll kick off and be off the court in a second. The slice will sit up more. That's the slice by nature.

    The only attackable volleys, slice or topspin, are those that are hit weak and in the opponent's range.

    What's unreliable? You're lifting the ball away from the net, as opposed to hitting it closer to the net and down towards it. It's harder to slice a volley with accuracy that below the net. Try it yourself: With topspin, you just "aim"....
     
    #65
  16. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    you're entitled to your opinion but respectfully i don't agree with anything you just said.
     
    #66
  17. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    This is a ridiculous thread. No pros are consistently hitting topspin volleys...
     
    #67
  18. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Perhaps you can't understand my point of view until you try it yourself? Even if I show you, you won't be able to get the shot unless you try it yourself.

    For now, I'll just have to wait and hope I have the same day then as now, that I may placate the belligerent TT Elite Crew.
     
    #68
  19. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Did you even READ the title?
     
    #69
  20. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    oh, right, the 'B' button

    now I understand!

    carry on
     
    #70
  21. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    One of the main reasons for a volley to have backspin, is so that the ball stays lower...which would mean your opponent would lift the ball more often for a put away. A topspin volley, would bounce higher and be easier for the opponent to reach well...
     
    #71
  22. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    On half volleys, one has to close the face of the racket, to adapt for the incoming angle of the ball. If the angle of the face was the same as a normal volley, the ball would basically fly sky high. So the best way to play a half volley, is with the face pointing downward (eg. 45 degrees)...so when the incoming angle of the ball eventually goes out at its normal outgoing angle, it will still be low over the net. Sometimes very little topspin is needed for this which may counter the spin on the rise and to make things easier. But this i do with a continental grip, and not a forehand grip - its more about changing the angle of the racket with your wrist.
     
    #72
  23. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    My guess is that you are not getting this shot right everytime...It is a now and then fluke shot and not the ideal way to aim for things.
    Or let me rephrase...it will hurt your game in the long run. A topspin volley as you say, is against the natural shape of a continental or traditional volley grip. Which would then mean, a eastern grip would probably be more "ideal". So now comes a higher shot or shot to your backhand...will you be able to change your grip in time for the overhead or backhand volley? Having a continental volley grip, can deal with all the shots at the net.

    The idea of topspin at the net (apart from the aggressive putaways when there is enough time) will just waste your time. Any topspin shot that is not put away at the net, will just go claycourt for your opponent, sit up and give him AMPLE time to pass you. Whereas, a blocked flat or sliced volley, will go grass court on him and eliminate his recovery time.
     
    #73
  24. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Hey, if you can't picture the shot, it's you who can't volley, not me.
     
    #74
  25. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Why couldn't an Eastern grip deal with overheads? Overheads can be sliced and hit flat with that grip. Djokovic put a lot of overheads away against Murray, as slices.

    Again, and no offense, but I still have to ask: have you hit the shot regularly enough to really *know* its strengths? Or are you conjecturing its strengths and weaknesses?
     
    #75
  26. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Post a video.

    It really needs to be taken from one of the ends of the court so that the quality of the ball that you're volleying can be seen as well as the your volley and the results of the volley.
     
    #76
  27. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    sure..

    you, of all the tennis players in all the world, are the only one who can volley.

    I can picture the shot, I just think it's idiotic.
     
    #77
  28. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Man, I play the same level as OP and I have no idea how to even hit a topspin volley. My brain literally cannot comprehend how in the world it even works. From what I understand, you are saying you are volleying with an EE/SW grip, then blocking it back as such. I'm trying to picture how this happens without dumping the ball into the net. I'm literally sitting here holding my racket with a SW grip, and the only way I can physically open up the face enough to volley puts my wrist in such an awkward position I'd probably break something on a mediocre passing shot.

    I get that you might use it for sticking volleys deep, but it's not practical when you can do literally the exact same thing with a conti grip. It's all about contact points, and I just don't see how it would be a good thing.

    -Fuji
     
    #78
  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I think if you guys just tried picturing how you'd volley with a SW grip, or full W, then you can understand it CAN be done, but it takes superior quickness, hand eye, and wrist/forearm strength.
    It IS possible to volley with full W grip, and lots of those shots would be top/sidespin almost mishit shots, that would still be putaways if the ball is chest high or higher.
    It CAN be done, it's not the ideal way to hit volleys for the majority of the playing public.
     
    #79
  30. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    You posted a video of Sampras hitting a half-volley as evidence of topspin volleys being a viable shot.

    There's really no situation where you'd want to hit a volley with topspin unless it's a swinging volley or you're stabbing for it. Half-volleys can be hit with topspin, but that's a different shot.

    Also, you can hit a topspin volley with a continental grip if you pronate your forearm enough.
     
    #80
  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I consider myself a good consistent HALF volleyer.
    I seldom hit topspin. Usually, a combination of slice and sidespin.
    My swing goes from higher to low, so an open racketface can hit the ball over the net and not too high, barely skimming the net.
    I know Sampras hits a topspin half volley quite often, as does Federer.
    I'm nowhere near their skill.
    A local former 5.0 also hits a topspin BACKhand half volley.
    But everyone underspins their volleys.
     
    #81
  32. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    It's not too tough to hit topspin half-volleys, just a matter of technique and practice. You don't have to be Federer. I think most 4.5's could pull it off without too many problems.
     
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  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I'm not saying it's tough.
    I'm just stating how I hit half volleys, at a high 4.0 doubles level.
    As a very skinny and weak person, I never tried to hit topspin on my half volleys. No need to. Good placement with some side/slice makes a good enough shot to force the baseliner to run full speed to get to the ball. If he crushes a clean winner from there, he can hit the same winner if I added a little topspin to my shot.
    Don't think I'll ever need shots to face Sampras or Federer.
     
    #83
  34. _craze

    _craze New User

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    The only difference is that the ball bounced. It's almost the exact same technique. At this point, you're nitpicking that....

    Maybe when you want to keep the ball in against a harder shot?
     
    #84
  35. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    If you are a 4.5 self rate, then you are not necessaily a 4.5 player.

    Just sayin' . . .
     
    #85
  36. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    come on guys. lets give him a chance. lets wait for the video, and if he proves himself we all look like idiots. before then lets nto jump to conculusions
     
    #86
  37. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I've hit topspin volleys before when just messing around. Don't really know why you would want to do it other than just for grins. A good slice volley is easier to hit, will move through the court sooner, and will stay lower - out of the strike zone of the opponent.
     
    #87
  38. _craze

    _craze New User

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    If you are a 4.5 computer rate, then you are not necessaily a 4.5 player.

    Just sayin' . . .
     
    #88
  39. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    and if you're a "anything between 3.5 and 4.5, depending on the thread", you're probably not worth listening to in technical discussions.

    just sayin'
     
    #89
  40. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    craze us Talk tennis forum are a bunch of crazies. just post the video and show them
     
    #90
  41. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Because your conditioning, hopeless slice, and lack of experience in working with a shot makes you so sagacious.

    Get over yourself and hit the shot. If not = "lazy". Besides, technical know-how isn't linear: many of the posters here know more about form than touring pros. It's something that gets more instinctive as you get better.

    @zapvor: I'll try my best. Thanks.
     
    #91
  42. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    be prepared for the "2.5-3.0 at best" comments.
     
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  43. Rogael Naderer

    Rogael Naderer Semi-Pro

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    Well here in the UK we just play tennis and let the scores be the only numbers worth talking about, the rating system is a vague guide at best; that's just us.
     
    #93
  44. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    I'm not saying it is not possible...I'm saying it is not ideal. At my club one of the best overhead hitters, hits with SW....But he would be better if he learned proper technique. He is merely relying on his ability which would only help so much in the long run. Whilst he hits great overheads at times, often he is very limited depending on the type of lob or how much time he has. A good example of him not being able to hit a good overhead, would be when he lets the ball bounce on the very high ones. He has to sometimes resort to a forehand then.
    Years back, before I hit overheads/volleys with the proper grip, i used to be on eastern myself. And this error on technique is a very common mistake...which could take long to unlearn.

    Now on the technique:
    When hitting a overhead with an outstretched arm, the natural relaxed position of the wrist would include pronation after contact on a continental grip. When one is on a eastern or SW grip, the natural pronation point would occur too early. This would often mean you would need to contact the ball lower to compensate...causing energy loss as well as possible wrist problems. You can compare the serve to the overhead. Ask yourself why people are serving with continental and backhand grips, and not so often on strong continental or eastern forehand (or SW) grips...Boris Becker was sort of an exception to millions of players out there.
     
    #94
  45. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    But you still want to be the best you can be right? It is never too late to adjust technique to become even better?
    We should not model ourselves to cope with club level play....we should model ourselves against the best. If we aim high, our limitations will be less even on club level.
     
    #95
  46. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Nice detective work.

    Sorry, but it is lower-level players who are the ones who think unorthodox technique is perfectly fine. It is, at the lower levels.

    Once you get to the higher levels, unorthodox technique gives poor results. Which is why I only see wonky strokes and jacked up technique at the lower levels and why you don't see pros trying to hit topspin volleys.
     
    #96
  47. _craze

    _craze New User

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    Does it matter what you think? You aren't high level. High level is 5.5+

    Unorthodox technique didn't give McEnroe poor results. Many of the pros today have "unorthodox" technique. That's completely subjective, you never even saw the shot and can't comprehend it, and you're unwilling to - you're low level if you can't hit a topspin volley. That's just how it is, plain and simple.

    Now, as a low-leveled player, like us all, you don't really have the right to say what shots will work and what won't. You haven't played that rating, and I know it.

    Also, a shot isn't a technique. It's shot selection. Technique is the fundamentals of your stroke and footwork when hitting the shot.
     
    #97
  48. _craze

    _craze New User

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    It isn't ideal, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. When you're in the position to hit an overhead anyway, so long as you can hit it well, the grip won't really matter. The serve is the beginning of the point, so the grip is more important then. Now, I still wouldn't go beyond an Eastern forehand grip for any overhead shot.

    Besides, I do have time to change my grip and I do have time to track the ball. I hit my overheads with the same grip that I hit my serve: Continental. I still hurt my wrist, but that's because I injured it off court. So I usually slice my overheads if I can. In which case the grip I'm using matters even less.
     
    #98
  49. _craze

    _craze New User

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    My serve is weak now and I have no grip or glasses, but I won't make excuses beyond that. I might use one of my alternate racquets.

    But first I have to make sure I get court time. If it turns out I'm a 2.5-3.0 level to this board, that's okay, since I only worry about my own, fluctuating self-rate and how well I perform in matches.
     
    #99
  50. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Well pretty well you are actually... Hence the whole point of the rating system. Unless your sandbagging, and thus even higher... :razz:

    -Fuji
     

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