Why don't people use it more often?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Up&comer, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    I'm talking about a deep, high, cross court topspin forehand. It's a very high percentage shot. I'm not saying use it over and over, but when the opponent isn't already moving that way it is a very difficult shot to do anything with and it opens up the court to go hard to the backhand side. Even against a rightie's forehand, if they don't get there and take it early, it forces them to go for a lower percentage shot or give up a short ball. I've noticed even the very good players I've played have trouble doing anything meaningful with it.
     
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  2. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Funny you mention that, it's pretty much my bread and butter shot. I use it with great success and it's pretty easy to get good at as the swing path is pretty well identical from anywhere on the court.

    -Fuji
     
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  3. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Hahaha! Welcome to the world of high percentage tennis. Actually, you should do it, over and over and over, until your opponent either hits an UE, hits a short weak shot that you can attack, or makes the tactical error of trying to re-direct your high deep forehand dtl, leaving himself out of position. Then, if he doesn't hit it wide, you crank your backhand cross court into the open court and, if it isn't a winner, repeat what you did on the forehand side.

    Continuing the basics of percentage tennis, so, what do you do when you draw that short weak shot? If the ball is a high sitter, well above the net, when you make contact, you have a large clearance over the net, and much more court angle to hit to. In that case, it's a high percentage play to go for a winner into the open court. What if the ball is below the level of the net when you make contact? You hit a dtl approach shot deep to your opponent's corner (within 5 feet is a good margin for error), and position yourself at net favoring the side you hit the ball on, taking away a dtl pass attempt and forcing your opponent to attempt a cross court pass. This is the high percentage play. Why? First, a cross court approach shot is a tactical error because you have left your self open on both sides - a dtl pass, and a cross court pass hit behind you while you scrable to cover the wide open dtl pass you left for yourself. Second, forcing your opponent to pass cross court, from behind the baseline (if you hit your approach deep), gives you more time to get to the ball and gives your opponent about a 2-3 foot window to get the ball by you cross court and keep the ball inside the sideline.

    On return of serve, your primary target should be to the opposite corner. On serve, your primary first serve should be out wide on both sides, opening up the court. Your primary second serve should be to your opponent's weakness to prevent him/her from attacking your second serve.

    All together, that's about 90% of high percentage tennis. Play that way with discipline and you will win a lot more matches.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
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  4. Bergboy123

    Bergboy123 Semi-Pro

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    I actually have trouble on the high CC forehand! :( I'm much much better at an inside out forehand. Not sure why, but I really have trouble getting the ball to go actually wide, even within like 5 feet of the sideline is hard for me.
     
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  5. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    Same for me. Trick for me was to hit even earlier for a start, and if that wasn't possible, then to hit reverse FHs. Manages to load the CC shot with plenty of topspin too.
     
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  6. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    because i want to have fun. and for me not setting up the point and just crushing the ball is more fun.
     
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  7. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Limpinhitter, I actually play and have always played a high percentage attacking game. I'm just wondering why it isn't taught more or utilized more. The aforementioned shot is one of my favorite shots to help set up a more aggressive court position.
     
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  8. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Haha, it always is.
     
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  9. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    One of the disadvantages that I can think of during a normal rally when both players are in a neutral position is that it opens up an opportunity for your opponent to go cross court at an even more acute angle, which is more natural and easier to hit than say a DTL shot.
     
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  10. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Indeed. That's why I say use it when your opponent isn't already moving that way. The thing is, in order to hit that acute crosscourt angle, they would need to take it early, which is difficult to do off that shot, or step back, allowing you to, despite the acute angle they hit, hit a offensive shot, such as a drop shot to the backhand, making them cover a lot of court.
     
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  11. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    IMO, tennis is a cross court game. Other than practicing serves and returns (the 2 most important shots in tennis), the most important practice anyone can do is cross court drills. During a match, it's important to know that you can hit cross court indefinitely, with enough pace and depth to keep your opponent from attacking.
     
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  12. OldFedIsOld

    OldFedIsOld Professional

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    I must be playing incorrectly because I bash a majority of my forehands down the line or inside out. :) Of course on the backhand I play a majority cross court, except on the attacking slice where I hit down the line.
     
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  13. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    haha only when you can keep it in court, thats my problem hahaha. but to answer your topic in a more serious way.

    the reason why a lot of people dont play that way is because its rec tennis. the majority of us havent had formal training. you notice the 3.0s who are older and have years of playing experience play a high % game, while the younger 3.0s are usually the ball bashers.
     
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  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Only works for me against lousier players than even myself.
    Once I play someone good, they take it on the rise, shorthop it DTL a little farther than I can get to, or they flick it topspin behind me to where I was previously standing....neither good for me.
     
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  15. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Great shot in doubles as well if you're playing the ad side. Hit this shot to your opponents BH until they cough up an error or a short ball. It's also effective if you hit it, then follow it in to the net as the volley is a simple FH down the middle.
     
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  16. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    It's a great shot for doubles. I use it all the time when returning serve against a team that poaches actively (until the server decides to S&V). If you can really load up the ball with top and hit it deep, it will put a lot of people on defense, and if you follow it in like a good aggressive dubs player, you will get the opportunity to hit put-aways.
     
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  17. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    good shot but not a put away. most opponents (for this player) get it back and resets the point...back to the baseline grinding. :neutral:
     
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  18. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    It's not meant to be a put away. It's meant to either make your opponent hit a difficult shot or it makes them step back and give up court position, allowing you to take control.
     
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  19. Up&comer

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    Again, making sure they aren't already moving that way is the key. Even if they are, making them take it off the rise is a good way to throw off their rythm. And to add to the last part of your post, the blue chips I've hit with generally handle it too well for it to be used effectively. However, I've played 3, 4, and even 5 stars that can't do anything with it and either take it on the rise and miss it after a couple tries or step back and hit a looper to my backhand, which is my favorite shot to take early and attack with.
     
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  20. Kam2010

    Kam2010 Rookie

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    I get accused of being a pusher when I hit deep topspin shots, it's not as though they come slow he just can't do anything and gets frustrated /waiting for your comment ..
     
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  21. Up&comer

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    The shot I'm talking about wouldn't be called a pusher shot by anyone unless, as you say, he/she is just frustrated by it, in which case I say it again, why don't people use it more often?
     
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  22. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    If cross court groundies aren't your primary play, then you are not taking full advantage of high percentage tennis. BTW, an inside out forehand is cross court, although, you are a bit more out of position than you would be with a cross court backhand.
     
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  23. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Tennis is a percentage game, not a "put away" game. Points are won on opponent's errors far more than on "put aways," even at the pro level. Modern tennis, with 100sq.in. racquets and polyester strings, is a grinding game. Going for "put aways" in low percentage situations is not a winning approach. The winning approach is to hit high, looping, topspin balls, cross court, until your opponent gives you a short and/or weak ball to attack. More often than not, the point will end in an unforced error or a tactical error than a "put away." But, when you do get the short and/or weak reply, THEN it becomes a high percentage play to go for a "put away" into the open court if it's a high sitter, or an approach shot dtl if it stays low. That's high percentage tennis.
     
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  24. Pet

    Pet Semi-Pro

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    Is a defensive shot, If you always put a crosscourt forehand, your partner is going to acomodate and hits more dtl and open your court.

    I think its fine to defend, but you need surprise sometimes too.
     
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  25. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    yes i use that shot when deemed appropriate then use a put away when opportunity suggests the point can be won as such.
     
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  26. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    mine is more of a put away when the opportunity arises. reads yours is percentage. whatever brings home the win...
     
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  27. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Hitting dtl from a cross court shot doesn't open your court as much as hitting cross court from a dtl shot. In addition, re-directing a cross court shot dtl also raises the issue of directionals, making the percentages of going dtl even lower. If you wait for a short and/or weak shot to go dtl, you raise your percentages dramatically.
     
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  28. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Well put. I wish I had something to add.
     
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  29. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Again, that's why I say to not use it over and over. Regardless, you either have to short hop and redirect which is difficult or step back and give the opponent (you) time as well as the opportunity to take an aggressive stance because they are now deep in the forehand corner.
     
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  30. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    You like to do a lot of extra running!
     
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  31. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Can be used for defensive, but is a GREAT Setup shot for certain offensive patterns!

    Too many players think one shot at a time, but tennis is like boxing in how it works well off good combinations!
     
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  32. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    That's what I'm really getting at.
     
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  33. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Well there you go.

    I also think the shorter angled slice is underused.

    Many things are not used enough due to the common practice where we hit together friendly...
    being nice and hitting back to one another..developing habits.
     
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  34. Pet

    Pet Semi-Pro

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    Definitely, all depends in what cir****ances...

    I played last day with a semi pro player in hardcourt, he smashed the forehands in all positions, but the backhand no, if i had played crosscourt to the forehand... 6-0 6-0
     
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