Why dont racket companies sell the rackets as the pros use them?

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by mTm28, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. mTm28

    mTm28 Rookie

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    I mean when i was younger i was intrested in trying the "latest" federer racket, which isnt actually the federer racket. Why dont the companies just sell them as the pros use them, with all of the modifications and that or just add them to the new line of rackets?
     
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  2. 120mphBodyServe

    120mphBodyServe Banned

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    Because, I'm guessing their costs would go up...
    The quality control measures that go into making the racquets for the pros would be much higher...
    They are all usually made at the factory by the same person, all to the exact same specs, no ifs or buts...
    In my view it's better to ignore what the pros use, and find the racquet that's right for you...
    Support companies that have good quality control standards...
    So that counts out Wilson, Babolat and Head...
     
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  3. canadave

    canadave Professional

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    Ironically, the Fed racquet apparently is pretty similar to the one sold in stores, from what I've read....more so than most other pro customized racquets. Anyway....

    There are a couple of reasons I can think of. One, I'm sure pros change up their "setups" relatively often, and it'd be hard for companies to "keep up" so that the models were absolutely identical. Two, I get the feeling from the little I've seen of pro spec'ed racquets that they are significantly heavier than most amateur players would be able to, or want to, handle. Three, what do you do if more than one pro player uses the same model of racquet? ;)
     
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  4. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I always thought this argument was nonsense. Most of the "tour" player's racquets that are sold are recommended for 4.5-5.0+ players anyways. This would imply that only 1% of the population can really handle these racquets. Why create such a racquet when you can create one that is usable by such a small minority of the population AND is authentic in that its the racquet that the pro actually uses.

    I mean really, if a 5.0 uses a 13 oz. racquet, does that mean that a pro player is using what 16-17 oz. racquets?
     
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  5. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    A better question is why try to play with the exact setup as a player on the tour?

    There's a reason why all the pros have different setups for thier sticks, it's customized for thier game.

    Find a stick you like, set it up so it matches your game and have fun. Playing with a k6.1 with Fed's setup isn't going to make you play like Fed.
     
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  6. FedererForehand

    FedererForehand Banned

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    Most recreational/ competative players would not be able to handle professional players set-ups.
     
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  7. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    So how come you can if you are not a pro?
     
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  8. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    I'd say almost 100% of tennis players could play with a pro's set up. For example, I've hit with wood rackets or a K6.1 and I could hit with each.

    HOWEVER - playing well with either of those sticks was a totally different issue.....
     
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  9. FedererForehand

    FedererForehand Banned

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    Sorry- but I missed where I said I could handle a pros set up... :confused:
     
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  10. johnkidd

    johnkidd Semi-Pro

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    I hit with a K90 over the w/e. Feels great when you hit it dead center, but it was really tough to hit a two-handed bh with.
     
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  11. ayuname

    ayuname Semi-Pro

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    It's marketing. Just because it says a special ranking requirement people will still spend the bucks to look like their idol.

    I could like Djokovic's play style and buy the Speed Pro and be terrible at tennis for a really long time, but at least I got Djokovic's Speed Pro.
     
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  12. Hidious

    Hidious Professional

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    Recreational hockey players can easily buy prostock sticks from many places. And believe or not, retail hockey sticks are now even more expensive than racquets. Prostock sticks are cheaper.

    Racquets don't break though, maybe selling prostock would affect the market too much preventing the birth of some great frames.
     
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  13. Virtua Tennis

    Virtua Tennis Semi-Pro

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    Most pros racquets come from the factory as blank frames meaning no grips no weights. (and I do mean no grips) Pros send their frames out to special custom shops that will mold custom sized and shape grips and weigh and blance it to their specs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
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  14. henryshli

    henryshli Semi-Pro

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    Pros being pros uses rackets that will suit their game down to the T.

    Pros being pros means that they can actually play tennis so their set up is more than likely to create a racket that is very demanding for people who can't play tennis but better than stock if you can.

    How many men in the top 100 can use Federer's K90 without their game suffering as a result? Maybe 5? Maybe not even 5. So in order for Wilson to sell more than 5 rackets and make a profit they product rackets that will be playable for the public.

    I don't agree that it would cost more to produce a k90 with Federer set up than say the current k90s in the market. If they wanted to they would have just created a federer racket like they would any other.
     
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  15. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Isn't it true that the K90 is a big seller, despite its unplayability? If people are willing to buy this pro racquet then they are willing to buy any pro racquet. Obviously there is a huge market for recreational racquets as well though because most players would rather use a racquet that fits them, rather than being a poseur and using a pro's racquet.

    This why the argument about unplayability can't be true. There are plenty of racquets that aren't real suitable for 99% of the tennis population, yet they are being solid.
     
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  16. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Not true. Some of the Pro's rackets are made from completely different materials that are more expensive. Read Seles Hall of Fame acceptance speach. Also, they are all carefully matched and made to sustain more stress.

    As for handling the Pro stick -- some are so demanding that we cannot handle them, however, most of them may actually improve our game.

    Last night, I was hitting with the PT57E (obiously a Pro stick), then with the Volandri's rackets and was definitely hitting a 1/2 the level better... We'll see if it happens again tonight and tomorrow night...
     
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  17. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    That's why Wilson makes 99 other racquets - for the other 99% of the population that can't handle the K90. The K90 is meant for the 1% of the population that can handle it. So that's still big enough of a market for them to sell the K90 since there are more than 100 different racquets on the market.

    With some other pros' actual racquets, pretty much 100% of the recreational players wouldn't be able to handle it.
     
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  18. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    they should sell same the racquets that the pros use for premium prices like porsche does, you have the basic boxster and then you have the real high end porsches that perform like race cars.
     
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  19. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    What pro has a racquet more demanding than the K90?
     
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  20. ckledzepplin

    ckledzepplin Semi-Pro

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    I don't really think that you have to use a racquet that is recomended for you skill level. I'm about a 3.5 and I use a stock K90, and I rarely frame the ball (maybe 3 times a match). to me the k90 fits perfectly.
     
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  21. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Do you like the KZen? I liked that stick even though it's not wildly popular. Stiff though.
     
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  22. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    i always thought companies should have a professional custom service, where you make everything to your preference, get the paint job, model, weight, grip type etc. Most table tennis companies do it, but you have to pay anywhere from 190$ to over 300$.
     
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  23. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Many or even most of them.

    For example, Djokovic's racquet weighs 360g, has a flex of only 51, and has a swingweight of 371.

    Taylor Dent's racquet weighs 375g and has a SW of 378.

    Gasquet's racquet weighs 361g and a SW of 381.

    Andy Murray's racquet has a SW of 404.

    Even the stock retail KPS88 weighs 363g with a SW of 345, but Sampras still adds a ton of lead tape to his so his KPS88 probably weighs closer to 390g with a SW closer to 390.

    How many average recreational players can handle racquets like these? I certainly couldn't and I'm a pretty good player. That's why manufacturers don't sell most pros' actual racquets.
     
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  24. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    well really its more about customizing the way You want, but have the cosmetics and outer look of federer's or djokovic's etc. And why does Andy Murray use such a heavy racket?
     
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  25. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    You can buy the racquet that looks like Djokovic's racquet. It's called the Head Youtek Speed Pro: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCHEAD-HYTSP.html
    But don't expect it to play anything like Djokovic's actual racquet. They don't even have the same string pattern.

    The retail K90, however, is the same racquet that Federer uses except that he adds some lead tape to the hoop.

    And Murray uses a heavy racquet because it fits his game. That's how he's able to redirect his opponent's power so easily.
     
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  26. trenzterra

    trenzterra Semi-Pro

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    i think the main reason is because pros usually stick with what they've used for years.

    companies, on the other hand, want to introduce 'new' technologies every two years or so to get consumers to change their racquets.

    therefore, if they sell the racquets as the pros use them they'll probably have a new model only every ten years or so
     
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  27. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Even though the k-90 is recommended for 5.0+, it is still a huge seller among the tennis population. It doesn't matter if these racquets are too demanding for the average player, if people believe they are authentic racquets of their favorite pros, they will buy them. I can't imagine that the average player can play with the K-90 or kps88, but they can't play with Djoker or Murray's racquet?
     
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  28. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Head has it's next three technologies lined up at any given time and if working on the 4th. I've bought enough racquets in the past couple of years so I am not going to spend any money on Youtek.

    That does not mean the technology is not legit. It is to sell racquets, as you state or they would go out of business.

    Microgel works for me. I love the feel of the frame and the kind of "exploding" feeling when you hit the sweetspot.

    The pro's have different needs altogether. They can't just pick up any frame and go play. IF my current frames were taken I'm sure I could find a YOUTEK model that I would like just fine. I could care less about scouring for HEAD models from 15 years ago -Pro Tour this etc etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
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  29. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    I don't even know how to define an avg tennis player. In any case I think Murray used the same Frame I play with although I'm sure his is leaded up.
     
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  30. Dark_Angel85

    Dark_Angel85 Rookie

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    simple. every pro player almost always customises their racquets.

    It's sometimes a simple logic of...

    1. They do take the stock racquets.
    2. Play with it, dislike or like some parts of it
    3. Modify it slightly, weights here and there

    and does this count as the stock racquet? does this count as NOT using the original stock racquet?

    Not all pro players will take stock racquets and modify them accordingly, but I don't think that really matters eh?

    Lets say, I love Davydenko and I'd love to be able to hit like him, does it mean that I'd go get an O3 Tour and find myself Davydenko-ish.

    Get real.

    Get a Kit-Kat.

    HEHEHEHE
     
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  31. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Well the point is, there was a day when all players had to play with wooden racquets that are more demanding than any of today's racquets. There are people on this board who claim that some of the pros' racquets are unplayable because they are less than 1 oz. heavier than top-selling racquets like the K90.

    Also there are lots and lots of K90 users who bought the racquet not because it is a good racquet for them, but because they like Federer and want his racquet. They might not have their best results with it, but they obviously don't care.

    So I say, why would that be a good reason not to actually sell the exact racquets of other top pros on the market if thats what customers would prefer?

    Oh and being leaded up is not the issue. Anybody can add lead to their racquet but I'm talking about the having the same stock frame as a pro.
     
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  32. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    well i mean not like that, youtek speed pro sucks btw, but what if i wanted maybe a 18x20 string patter for w.e. reason. I mean Im fine with k90, best stick ever. And I thought you said in another thread that fed has been using the same stick for years lol?
     
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  33. DownTheLine

    DownTheLine Hall of Fame

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    Doesn't FED lead his racket up to be pretty heavy? I heard like 14 oz or maybe 13.2 oz. Do you know the swing weight and the weight of his stick?
     
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  34. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I'm an average player and I can play with the K90, but no way in heck could I play with either Djokovic's nor Murray's racquet nor even Sampras' KPS88 as he specs it.
     
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  35. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Have you ever tried to play with a racquet with a swingweight of 404? You would barely be able to move the thing. And even if you could, you would be exhausted after 20 minutes or your arm would fall off.

    There's a huge difference between a swingweight of 336 and 404. What's the swingweight of your regular racquet? I'd bet it's under 330.
     
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  36. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    He has. When did I state otherwise? :confused:

    He's been using the K90 since 2002, even though it was only released to the public in 2007.
     
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  37. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Federer's actual racquet is only 12.8 oz. and has a swingweight of 338, so he doesn't add too much lead.

    http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs/federer_wilson_k.html
     
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  38. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Break please explain swingweight for me
     
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  39. Even though I disagree with BP quite a bit, I have to say I've noticed he does make a lot of sense sometimes.
     
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  40. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Because I worship, adore, idolize, and adulate eveything there is about Roger GOAT Federer. It doesn't matter how I play, only that I have eveything just like he has . . . even his underwear.
     
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  41. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Oh maybe that is what you meant. I believe you said that in the "Is Federer's Dip in play due to racket?" So wilson has had that racket for awhile now.
     
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  42. DonBot

    DonBot Semi-Pro

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    And most recreational players buy their raquets at walmart and hit two or three times a year. The only thing this segment wants is a cheap prestrung raquet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
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  43. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Do a search in the Racquets forum. Lot's of threads about swingweight there.

    Here's TW's definition:

    Swingweight: Measure of how heavy a racquet feels when swung, i.e. maneuverability. Also known as Moment of Inertia or Second Moment, swingweight is dependent on several factors, including racquet weight, length, balance, head size. A heavy swingweight racquet is more powerful than a light swingweight racquet (ATBE), but will be less maneuverable.
     
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  44. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    yeah but you said you could play well with a wood racquet and djokovic said it's mighty tough to play well with a wood racquet :)

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2007-06-20-raquet-tech_N.htm
     
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  45. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    But that's only because I grew up playing with a wood racquet but Djokovic didn't. If he had grown up playing with a wood racquet, I'm sure he wouldn't find it so tough. And since my strokes were grooved using a wood racquet, my game is more suited to a wood racquet than Djokovic's is. :)
     
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  46. Aces09

    Aces09 Semi-Pro

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    Pros use the racquets they grew up with and are comfortable with. They feel like the racquet is an extension of their arm, When they change racquets, ex: Ljubicic to head from babolat, and Djokovic to head from wilson, the results are rarely good. Ljubicic was top 5 when he switched and he dropped quickly, even though his new racquet (extreme) was a widebody like the pure drive. Djokovic switched racquets a second time, going from the 16/19 to the 18/19 or 18/20, not sure.

    The racquets pros will be using in ten years are the racquets that todays ten year olds are using. For example, my brother is using the babolat aeropro drive with cortex. He's used to it, he likes it, it works for his game. He's already saying it's the racquet he wants to use forever. I doubt Babolat's frames in 2019 will tempt him away from his aeropro. Sampras grew up with the jack kramer prostaff (i think) and he found the prostaff 6.0 85 and apparently fell in love. Would you switch your beloved racquet for some newer shinier one? Nooo.
     
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  47. Terr

    Terr Semi-Pro

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    Because tards at my local club, who can't even manage a forehand use APDC.

    I'm not sure if it's the racquet holding them back or their complete lack of hand-eye coodination, but the racquet surely can't be helping.

    It's different for higher level players of course. But I don't personally know anyone who has played with Fed's racquet and liked it. And that's without the extra weight he has on his actual racquet. Chances are, if you can handle a pro's racquet, you are a pro.
     
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