Why Has Murray Beaten Nadal The Last Three Time They Played?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheRealTruth, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. TheRealTruth

    TheRealTruth Rookie

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    Yes Nadal has won the Australian Open so he is no slouch on hard court. But why has he been owned by Murray the last 3 times they played on hard court whilst Nadal is number 1? Was Nadal fortunate to not play Murray at AO?
     
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  2. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    Yes Federer has won the US Open so he is no slouch on hard court. But why has he been owned by Murray the last 4 times they played on hard court whilst Federer is number 2? Was Federer fortunate to not play Murray at AO?

    Same applies for Djokovic and last two times they played :)

    So Murray is regularly beating all three players ranked above him.
     
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  3. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    Because Murray is a better player than Nadal.

    Next case!
     
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  4. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    Murray knows Nadal's weak spots.
     
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  5. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    Because he's a better player on hardcourts- simple.

    Murray could've def. won the AO only if Verdasco wasn't on fire.
     
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  6. TheRealTruth

    TheRealTruth Rookie

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    Good point. I agree Murray would've beaten Federer too had they met at AO. But the question here is about Nadal, Federer is not number 1 anymore lets talk about the new king Nadal. What do you think about this business of Murray owning Nadal?
     
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  7. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    ^^Would of won me thinks.
     
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  8. TheRealTruth

    TheRealTruth Rookie

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    But not on clay surely?
     
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  9. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Murray doesn't own Nadal. Murray has beaten Nadal twice, the second time when Nadal had one functioning leg.

    As a Murray fan, I'd love to be able to say he owns Nadal. Fact is, he doesn't.
     
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  10. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    Only problem with your argument is Nadal was able to beat the on fire Verdasco and Murray could not.
     
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  11. TheRealTruth

    TheRealTruth Rookie

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    He actually has beaten Nadal 3 times including Abu Dahbi although it was an exhibition match but anyone who saw the match knows they were both serious, slam serious. As for whether he owns Nadal, I think it's fair to say he owns Nadal on hard court, at least.
     
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  12. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    The problem with your statement is that the on fire Verdasco was tired from playing a five-set match against Murray. Espeacially when Nadal had very easy rounds leading up to the semi final.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
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  13. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    I saw the match; it was great. But it was a exo, a friendly, a practice match. It doesn't count. I wish it did, but it doesn't. Doesn't really matter whether they tried or not, it was not an official match.

    I don't see how you can say Murray owns Nadal on hards when their head to head is 2-4 and one of the 2 was close to a walkover. Like I say, I'd love it to be otherwise, but it ain't so.
     
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  14. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    because simon is a better player than Federer?

    because Stich and krajicek are better than Sampras?

    because santoro is better than Safin?

    next case!
     
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  15. RalphNYC

    RalphNYC Semi-Pro

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    Very simple just watch the matches. Where Federer does nothing with Nadal's 2nd serve to his BH, Murray pounds it. Where Federer is neutralized by heavy topsin balls to his BH inh rallies, Murray thrives on those balls and returns them just as deep, penetrating and dangerous, where Federer can make an occasional saving shot lunging for one of Nadal's huge angles off the court, Murray gets there and often squeezes out solid winners on those. And Murray's first serve is quite huge. In one sentence, Nadal's winning strategy "Dictate the points by heavy FH topsin balls to my opponent's weaker side" does not work if the opponent has no weaker side. Murray and Djokovitch are both in this category.
     
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  16. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    Why doesn't it count? You think they were playing for free?
     
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  17. TheRealTruth

    TheRealTruth Rookie

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    I agree it doesn't count as an official match as there were no ranking points offered. But the way they played you know they were both seriously, unlike those Fed/Sampras exos. Besides anyone knows Nadal is not a quitter he takes every match seriously and he so wanted to beat Murray in that exo but failed in the end.
     
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  18. GameSampras

    GameSampras Banned

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    Well the matches have been on HCs. ANd Murray is the master of 3 set HC matches. These days Murray is a tough son of gun for Nadal to beat on HC's. He can handle Nadal's topspin and bully him from the baseline.

    If Murray ever learns to how to play on Grass and Clay. Look out Nadal
     
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  19. saram

    saram Legend

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    Murray doesn't get enough credit for this point construction and thinking while on the court. I think he understands how to beat Rafa and implement his game.
     
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  20. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    The current state of grass, I don't think Murray has much of a chance. Clay wise, he'll never be able to beat a 90% Nadal, let alone a 100%.
     
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  21. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Murray would have been a nightmare for the best s&v and best baseliners of all time.

    He has:

    - huge serve
    - amazing returns
    - solid and powerful off both wings, can produce winners from either side and great passing shots
    - great anticipation in general and reliable at the net
    - great court coverage, among the quickest I've seen (but somehow, this attribute doesn't translate well on clay)
     
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  22. miyagi

    miyagi Professional

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    He has improved his game greatly and you have to remember that Hard is Murrays very best surface.

    So I think most of their matches will be tight especially 3 set matches.

    Plus I think Murray matches up to Nadal well on hard...I think he may well struggle with players like Tsonga

    Lets not talk about clay, no way murray even takes a set off Nadal and even grass I think Nadal wins in straights....
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
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  23. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Simple, Murray outplayed Nadal a few times and also Nadal was too injured to perform optimally for a few of the losses v Murray so he would have lost to any number of good players.
     
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  24. danb

    danb Professional

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    Murray is so great ...
    He chokes when it really matters and wins the small tourneys. And yes he can beat a one-leg version of Nadal.
    All Murray wins will matter only the day he starts winning GS.
     
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  25. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Funny how all Nadal losses have that excuse, no?
     
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  26. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Because it doesn't appear in the ATP record book. Whether they were paid or not is irrelevant. Like I've said already, I wish it did count, but it doesn't.
     
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  27. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    The thread was about Nadal and the OP didn't even mention Federer, yet you make most of your post (#2 in the thread) about Federer. You are obviously obsessed with him.

    Anyway, Murray's game matches up with Nadal's game nicely on hardcourts. He can take his backhand early so the Nadal crosscourt forehand doesn't bother him on a medium-fast hardcourt. I think at the AO, Murray would have had trouble with Nadal though. Nadal probably wouldv'e won.
     
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  28. Frankauc

    Frankauc Professional

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    As a fan of Nadal, i can say that Murray could be his Nemesis on hard courts. I hope nadal will find an answer to beat him
     
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  29. DoubleDeuce

    DoubleDeuce Hall of Fame

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    Actually, watching Murray recently against Nadal, and playing in London, I think Murray has good chance. I am hoping he's in his half because he's perfect matchup against Nadal with his long rallies. My money is on him if they meet in semifinal this year, even against 100% Nadal.
     
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  30. LanceStern

    LanceStern Professional

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    Because Murray plays excellent in hard-court three setters.

    He's been beating EVERYBODY in hardcourt three setters. It was no surprise to me that Murray won.
     
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  31. Cloudy

    Cloudy Semi-Pro

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    At the USO he was awesome except for in the final when he was tired and didn't play well. He outplayed Rafa simple as that.

    The exo - don't think it was indicative of form they looked to be going for it but its an exo you don't know what either was holding back.

    Rotterdam - Rafa was clearly injured he never drops his serve like that. Andy let it affect his game and he shouldn't have done.

    I love Andy am a huge fan but I don't think he has the measure of Rafa yet in the same way that he does Federer. He is marginally better if they are both on, on hard. On clay and grass I think he would get hammered.


    I'm not sure Fed will ever beat Nadal again and I don't think he will beat Andy on a hard court. Grass and clay different can of worms.
     
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  32. Nadalator

    Nadalator Banned

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    HMMM

    US Open...1
    Rotterdam...2

    TWO...Or does Murray own Federer 6-2? :twisted:

    Why does Nadal own Murray 5-2? :p

    Why can Murray only beat Nadal on a hardcourt? :p
     
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  33. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Murray's game is more natural for Hard courts than Nadal's. It doesnt diminish Nadal's hard court prowess but just that Nadal's game isnt exactly nbuilt for Hardcourt.

    In general, the top 3 or 4 players of the world are often seperated by little intangibles. So it is no surprise if one beats the other. After all most players become #1 after serving in 2,3,4 ranks for some time.

    Murray beat Nadal those times because he played well. I personally believe, on hard courts, Murray always has good chance of beating Nadal. On Clay courts, Murray might as well not show up.

    Murray poses the same problem to Nadal that Nadal throws to Federer. Nadal chases down Fed's shots and then put them into Fed's weak corner (back hand). Murray chases Nadal's shots and puts them in ridiculously impossible positions that are tough even for an exceptional mover like Nadal.
     
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  34. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I guess because he played better than Nadal in those last 3 matches?

    Lol,somewhat true.However he did seem bad in Rotterdam although Murray might have won regardless,hard to tell but Nadal was injuried.Murray's USO win though was completely legitimate and great display of tennis from him as far as I'm concerned,Nadal didn't seem tired to me personally in that match regardless of what he(and his fans)say.
     
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  35. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Because he played better than Fed in those 5 encounters on HC,however he doesn't "own" Fed,you don't own the guy who beats you convincingly in a slam.
     
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  36. miyagi

    miyagi Professional

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    Nadal seemed "flat" but Murray won that match fair and square even Nadal said it himself...Murray has caused Nadal problems the last few times....But Nadal was clearly injured in Rotterdam.
     
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  37. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    Nadal was injured the last time they played so that one shouldn't count. One was an exhibition and a very close one at that. Nadal was a little rusty. The US Open was a fast surface that suits Murray's game perfectly. Slow hardcourts and grass favor Nadal though. See Toronto and Wimbledon for that.
     
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  38. sheq

    sheq Professional

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    its 5-2 head to head for nadal and we are still talking about how murray owns rafa..is it a joke or not ?
     
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  39. drive

    drive Semi-Pro

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    I would say that he owns nadal on HC, at most. Remember last year's Wimbledon ownage.
     
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  40. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know, the way the grass was playing, I think Nadal would edge out against Murray. However, if they sped up the grass to help out Murray (which is a very big possibility) I think Murray would actually enter that match as the favored player.
     
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  41. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

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    It was playing quite fast. Murray just doesn't move as well on grass as on hardcourts.
     
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  42. capriatifanatic

    capriatifanatic Banned

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    Capriati would overpower Nadal easily. She would take his moonballs on the rise and slam winners. I think Murray plays similar to Jen Jen and that is how he does so well vs Nadal.
     
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  43. capriatifanatic

    capriatifanatic Banned

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    Stop making excuses. Nadal hits moonballs which is why he gets overpowered by big hitters like Murray, Djokovic, the Williams sisters, Capriati, and Tsonga.
     
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  44. capriatifanatic

    capriatifanatic Banned

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    Yeah I agree. Murray isnt quite good enough to own Rafa but he gives him some trouble. If he had the forehand and mental toughness of the great Capriati to go with his backhand, return of serve, serve, and athletic ability he could own him though.
     
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  45. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    He was lucky not to have to play Murray at the AO for sure although Verdasco certainly gave him something to work with! Now the term "own" is inappropriate as Nadal won a set in their last encounters and their matches are generally tight (unless you want to use the last set of Rotterdam and pretend it had nothing to do with Nadal being injured). The exhibition they payed was extremely tight and AFAIK exhibitions are never taken into account in official head to heads, so Nadal leads Murray 5-2 (and not 5-3).
    Murray is still improving on hard courts and he's definitely gonna become the biggest challenge to Nadal on that surface. I'm not convinced that challenge will remain unsolved though. Djokovic beat Nadal on hard courts several times but at the Olympics, Nadal found a way to prevail. That's what Nadal does best: finding ways. When Tsonga blew him off the court at AO 08 people intimated that Tsonga "embodied" the way to play against Nadal, the way to neutralize Nadal's weapons, there were even posts back then stating that people were starting to figure out Nadal's game (on hard) and that Nadal would subsequently be beaten more often and drop in the rankings. We all know what happened after that when Nadal met Tsonga and we all know he didn't drop in the rankings and even won his first hard court slam. So I would be a little more cautious before stating that Murray will systematically block Nadal in the future.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
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  46. capriatifanatic

    capriatifanatic Banned

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    #46
  47. arnz

    arnz Professional

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    Nadal's weakness has always been, and will always be, hardcourts. Look at the losses he has had against the top 10...how many were on clay and grass? Murray has improved the most on hard....with Nadal the second most improved on hard courts. On grass, Nadal will own Murray, and on clay, well is that even a discussion?



    Nadal will have his chances on hard, especially with his mental toughness. He used to be beaten by the likes of Blake/Tsonga/Youzhny. I think those days are past. But the 2 top hard court players, Djokovic and Murray, both have the potential to beat him at anytime
     
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  48. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I don't know what things Capriati could do to Nadal but beating him at tennis is probably not one of them ;-)
     
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  49. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    ROTFL! The top 2 hard court players now, outside of Nadal himself, are Federer and Murray. Djokovic is at best the 4th best hard court player now.
     
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  50. capriatifanatic

    capriatifanatic Banned

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    Well her power is far too much for all the other women, and made her pretty much unbeatable to other women in her good years. It has me thinking what she would do to men, especialy those who play a style she could overpower.
     
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