Why has Murray's level dropped since the USO?

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Mainad, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. MonkeyBoy

    MonkeyBoy Professional

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    If we're going to strip Murray of the USO due to environmental factors, we might as well strip Federer of Wimbledon by the same principles. Do you deny that Federer benefited more from the closing of the roof than Andy did?

    Yes, Federer was spent in the final. It's completely wrong to take from this that Murray did not deserve the gold, or somehow got lucky at the Olympics. Fed wasn't spent due to extratextual factors; he was playing in the same competition as Andy, and if he had a more harrowing ride to the finals, it was purely due to his inability to deal with the circumstances as well as Murray did. The only thing you can complain about is Federer having a harder draw, but I don't think that's evident. Tell me, what's a more impressive feat: Beating DelPo in 4 1/2 hours, or beating Djokovic in less than 2?

    Another thing to remember that people never bring up is that, while Fed/Mur both crashed out early in the men's doubles, Murray was competing all the way through in the mixed, while Federer wasn't.
     
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  2. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    Oh yes, absolutely. He won the second set with the roof still open and had enough momentum to win the match in those conditions.

    Murray did deserve the gold. The point is: that medal does not prove that he somehow reached the next level and is expected to maintain that level permanently.
     
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  3. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    He only narrowly won the 2nd set. The closure of the roof changed conditions completely and definitely favoured Federer. Had Federer lost that match you would no doubt have used the closure of the roof as an excuse just as you seem to think the wind blew more strongly on Djokovic's side of the court than it did on Murray's at the USO!

    Well, he went on to win the USO but, oh I forgot, that one was down to the wind (because we all know that Murray is the only player on the tour that isn't affected by the wiind). I guess if it weren't for hurricanes and tired opponents, he would never win anything, would he?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
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  4. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    ok murraa is great we get it :)
     
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  5. MonkeyBoy

    MonkeyBoy Professional

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    I'm not saying Federer wouldn't have won with the roof open (I think it was his day). But the roof closing did help him. The point: It's all part of the game. Because Murray dealt with the weather better does not detract from his victories, nor mean he necessarily would have lost those matches without it.

    Murray's been operating at 'that level' for quite a while; he's just lacked mental resolve to replicate it in big matches. I think the Olympics and USO have helped 'unblock' him in a pretty major way.
     
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  6. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    No, why would I use it as an excuse. Closed roof conditions should favor Federer. My point is: he was not losing the match even with the roof open, so obviously conditions were not a deal breaker.

    In the USO final, the conditions completely disrupted and randomized the game, nullifying Djokovic's advantage in class. That match does not indicate any "new level" of Murray that would "suddenly drop" after the USO.

    There was no drop, as there had been no raise.
     
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  7. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Don't tell me, tell Netspirit. He seems to be the one who doesn't 'get it' ! ;-)
     
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  8. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    The first two sets were narrowly fought wins by both players. After the roof closed, Federer's level went up significantly and he cruised through the next two. Kudos to him.

    Both players were precisely and evenly matched in that final and both were equally affected by the coinditions. Both said so afterwards. Djokovic levelled the match at 2 sets all (funny how the wind didn't stop him from doing that) and then Murray did something he had never done in a Slam final before, he raised his level to take the final set and took it convincingly with 2 breaks of serve! He was clutch on one of the biggest ever stages when it finally mattered and that was a definite first for him!

    Unfortunately, he forgot this lesson in his next 3 tournaments, especially in the final of Shanghai which he definitely should have won. His level undoubtedly dropped further at the WTF when he blew leads in his matches against both Djokovic and Federer.

    I'm hoping that he will rediscover the form which netted him the Olympics and the USO when the new season starts. I think he will.
     
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  9. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Oh please, enough with the inane attempts at detracting from Murray's USO win.

    When Roger beats Agassi at the USO in the middle of a gale, it's evidence of Roger's skill and adaptability; ditto when Rafa destroys Murray in the final of Indian Wells a couple of years ago. But when Murray adapts better to the conditions than his opponent then it is down to dumb luck? A Random outcome of the prevailing conditions? Did you see the 5th set? Did Novak lose it because of the wind? It wasn't even blowing by the end of the match - novak still lost.

    Murray is USO and Olympic champion. The End.
     
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  10. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

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    So what happened at the Olympic semi final?
    What's the excuse there?
     
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  11. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

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    Fixed. 10 fixes.
     
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  12. nethawkwenatchee

    nethawkwenatchee Professional

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    Insane! The whole match is available on youtube and I would recommend revisiting it when you have time. The first two sets were evenly contested with the first set tie break as a very key point in the match (and this was in the middle of the wind storm at its worst) Murray simply out played Nole on the biggest points and stole the breaker. The second set you could argue that the wind favored Murray as he went up 4-1 with Nole making alot of errors (long windy points ETC.) but Nole actually was able to tie the set up and again played tighter on the crucial points at five all and again down 5-6. The third and fourth sets Nole clearly loosened up and Murray maybe tightened up a bit, but Murray nearly fought his way back into the fourth set and was very close to regainning break at that point, although he eventually lost the set to a very in form Nole. The Fifth set was Murrays carrer definning moment and out-played, out-lasted, and simply broke Nole's will... No excusses needed here and Nole confirmed this in his post match interviews!
     
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  13. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    ...mostly because of the wind that made any shot-making impossible.
     
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  14. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Murray won the US Open fair and square, but I think that winning that final may have been his peak. After that he may enter a slow decline (a few slam finals, mainly semifinals) for a few more years.
     
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  15. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    Yes, prime Federer is incredibly adaptable and essentially impervious to conditions that don't involve red filth and sidespun moonballs to the backhand.

    Federer played in god mode despite the wind. That being said, he would have won regardless of it, and it is a reality that no one disputes.

    Nadal is the best wind player in the game because he will do anything to just get the ball back in play, and nothing more. It's the essence and substance of his game. It's why Nadal always slaughters Murray; Murray is a wannabe Nadal copycat. Ergo, Murray plays less badly than his opponents in the wind, but is not in the same league as Nadal.

    Actually Djokovic lost in the fifth set because he had to play on consecutive days while Murray had a full day of rest. Djokovic was clearly on fumes in the fifth after mounting a courageous comeback.

    If not for the wind, Djokovic would have won in straights. The first two sets were close even with the extreme wind. Bear in mind, if not for the wind, Djokovic would not have had to play on consecutive days either, so he would have been wholly fresh. I think the Australian Open 2011 is a good template as to what happens when a fresh and in-form Djokovic takes on Andy Murray.

    On grass. Djokovic sucks on grass. Murray should be grateful he did not end up with Del Potro in his half or he'd be polishing his irrelevant bronze medal right now.

    Honestly I think it is time to concede Olympic tennis back to the amateurs, where it belongs. It is quite clear professional players think of it as a joke, and even the ATP only awards 750 points for a gold.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
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  16. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    You sound like a true *******. Fed's wins are all down to pure genius and are not affected by the conditions whereas Murray can only win if the windy conditions are present which somehow only blow on his opponent's side of the court! Do me a favour, please! You believe that if you want to. Please don't expect serious and unbiased tennis fans to have to swallow it!

    So is Nadal aided by the wind in his matches or not and, if so, does that place an asterisk against his windy victories just like you are asking us to place against Murray's USO win because he too apparently played better in the wind than his opponent??

    Murray played an average of 5 hours more on court than did Djokovic during the USO and had to fight his way through several 4 and 5 set matches whereas Djokovic just cruised through every single match for the loss of just 1 set in his weather-interrupted semi against Ferrer. That more than compensated for any supposed advantage Murray may have had by having a day off between his semi and the final. Naturally when Murray had to play over 3 days consecutively at the 2008 final (2 day semi with Nadal because of bad weather followed by the final next day) whereas Federer had a nice 2 day rest, that didn't count I suppose because Federer is just a god who can play like one no matter how much or how little he is rested! Although when it comes to discussing the Olympic final, how come Federer's lack of rest is dredged up as an excuse for him whereas Murray is not accorded similar considerations? Strange one that!

    Absolute horsesh1t, as I've just explained above. Murray was a much improved player since 2011 AO and learned a lot from that experience. Plus nobody else could handle 2011 Djokovic, at least not for the first half of that year and not much after that either. 2012 Djokovic came down to Earth a little and other players, like Murray, were better prepared for him. In the 5th set of the USO final, Murray turned the tables on Djokovic and completely overwhelmed him. There wasn't much wind blowing at that stage. Djokovic tired himself out by trying to keep up. Murray simply outlasted him and there are not many players on tour who can ever say they managed to do that!

    ROTFWL oh sure, because Del Potro is an absolute winner on grass, isn't he? Remind me, how many grass titles has he got? How many grass finals has he even reached? What is his current H2H v Murray, achieved mostly in 2009, the year of Del Potro's greatness? Whoops, 5-1 to Murray. So much for that theory!


    Yep, Federer clearly didn't give a rat's ass which is why he busted his gut trying to beat Del Potro 19-17 in the 3rd set of their semi-final and talks even now of staying active until Rio 2016!!:rolleyes:

    I'm guessing somehow that if Federer or Djokovic had played the final, we would be hearing what an important tournament the Olympics now are for the top players and how prestigious it would be to win it. Am I right?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
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  17. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    LMAO!

    Mainad, mate your sarcasm detector is seriously broken :).
     
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  18. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Have to respectfully disagree, given the fact that ATP awards a whooping 1500 points for a worthless cheesy exo ( or at best a 250 event if we're being generous) that is WTF, 750 points just feels way too little for an event that is much more prestigious and valuable than even slams ever since 2008.
     
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  19. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Zagor, if you're going to tell me he's just trolling, forget it. I think he means every word. IMO it's a kind of double-bluff for him, making you think he means the opposite of what he is saying but really meaning it all the time. That way he gets to say what he really means without too much comeback because you and others think, "Tee-hee, oh that TTMR, what a card he is! Ha ha ha!"

    I've decided to call his bluff. If he's just trolling, he'll have to prove it to me! :twisted:
     
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  20. nethawkwenatchee

    nethawkwenatchee Professional

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    This is tough to read. Djokovic has a wimbledon title (not his best surface but formitable and able to compete with anyone on any surface), Murray a final and a pair of semi-finals (a natural grass court player with great movement and variety on the surface), Nadal-Fed grass warriors. Del-Potro? You must be thinking of someone else here :)
     
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  21. Razoredge

    Razoredge Banned

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    Olympic Murray would've slaughtered Del Potro in straights, no contest.
     
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  22. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    If not for the wind Berdych would have beaten Murray and may have gone on and beaten Djokovic. (He was winning in the periods when the wind lightened up)
    Too bad he only plays at that level once in a while.
     
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  23. nethawkwenatchee

    nethawkwenatchee Professional

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    In 2012 Murray beat Berdych three out of three matches on hard court (only loss came on clay). I agree that Berdych played an unbelievable match against Federer in the QF but wind or not he wasn't getting by Murray that day. Murray was superior on all counts.

    Batz, Fedex, Mainad, Myself and others have to continually hear this milarky about the wind and I for one am tired of it. Murray was simply going to win this US Open come Hell or High Water and he outlasted all comers. Just give him his credit and quite playing up all those who didn't get the job done. God Knows Murray had to hear the same advice enough times.
     
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  24. Razoredge

    Razoredge Banned

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    Because he's back to his choking ways. How else do you squander match points like he has been doing these past months? Absolutely disgraceful for a reigning GS champion to be doing that.
     
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  25. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not sure I'd call it trolling (borderline maybe), more like being a passive-aggressive sarcastic smart-ass with a very one-dimensional/tunnel vision of this forum.

    However I can guarantee he was being sarcastic, trust me on that.
     
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  26. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Of course, as evidenced by the fact that when they next met in a perfectly controlled environment (indoors) Berdych trounced Murray, oh wait...
     
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  27. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    But berdych @ the YEC wasn't in good form, he was @ the USO ...

    I know some here are taking away lot of credit from murray's win with excuses .... but without the wind , berdych would have a better shot, IMO ....

    Funnily enough, I think murray played at a higher level on average @ USO 2008 ( till the finals , he was sub-par in the finals) ,@ AO 2010 and @ wimbledon 2012 than here @ USO 2012 .... just that he was mentally tougher in 2012 than @ USO 2008/AO 2010
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
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  28. fps

    fps Legend

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    Because the rest of the year after the USO doesn't matter so much, because he's been doing a lot of publicity. Because he's just achieved his dream and mentally that is something he has to learn to live with. Because he needed just to enjoy his tennis for the rest of the year because his next real goal is the Australian Open, and next year is the biggest of his career to date, one in which he has a real shot at achieving his other big dream of becoming world number 1.

    A decline is not something you measure over a period of two months.
     
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  29. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Same as Murray! :)

    Top players have to learn to play in whatever conditions they face. No doubt it would be lovely if we could always be guaranteed a warm, sunny, cloudless day, not too hot, not too cold, not too windy etc. but, unless all GS events are moved to California or a tropical island, it is impossible to guarantee such conditions as we've just seen this year when every one of the GS finals was affected by adverse weather conditions at some point. The USO, in fact, got off more lightly than any of the others as it was the only one that was not actually delayed or disrupted because of the weather! But whatever the conditions, they are always the same for both players!

    I think I agree with you here. Murray actually played better at the AO and Wimbledon but was mentally stronger at the USO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
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  30. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Fair point. I am just disappointed he didn't end the year on a high, especially when he passed up so many chances. But onwards and upwards. A new season beckons!
     
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  31. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    You guys are missing the point. When I said, "too bad he only plays at that level once in a while," I meant that he only plays at that level once in a while.

    Not that hard to figure out.
     
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  32. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    At risk of repeating something already said (I skimmed the thread) and the obvious - it's normal for a player's form to drop after winning their first slam. Several tennis pundits predicted a slump was likely, and warned the invariably unrealistic British public not to expect too much. Going by their predictions, Andy's predicted slump wasn't that slumpy, especially when you consider that he was slightly under the weather in Asia, and no-one cared about Paris.

    Folk really need to give the "it was windy in NY" a rest. How Andy can go from being the best player to never win a slam, to fluking a win, is remarkable. Wind is one of the natural elements, and it is something all players should expect to play in. If they can't play in wind, they either accept they'll lose matches against players who have a more rounded game (especially when they are ranked higher and beat them indoors), or they put some hours in on practice courts in windy locations.

    Andy struggled with the heat and humidity in week one of USO. If he'd gone out early, would anyone have said it was unfair that his opponents are naturally better suited to heat? Most people just recognised that he'd missed his usual Miami training block which he normally uses to acclimatise to the heat for the North American season. As it turns out, he was sufficiently better than his opponents that he was able to win the matches, despite playing below his best.

    To win in conditions that suit your opponents style better than your own, you either have to be much better than your opponent, or have a Plan B in your arsenal. Sadly for Berdych, he only has a Plan A, and he was playing against a better player who also has a Plan B & C. Realistically, if there was no wind on Andy's side of the court, not just Thomas's, Andy would have played a lot better than he did too.
     
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  33. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    I believe this point was eloquently addressed by Netspirit here:

    These were not regular winds we hackers often have to put up with; these were 50 km/h or greater gusts generated by a major hurricane.

    The semi-final between Berdych and Murray was played because the organizers knew Murray was more likely to prevail in these unprecedented winds. Casual fans do not know Berdych; they might know Murray. Name recognition is imperative for TV ratings in tennis. Why do you think they've slowed down the courts? Because the organizers don't want to see Federer beating up on random nobodies in finals and winning 25 slams. They've leveled the playing field by giving slow court grinders with some name recognition like Nadal, Murray and Djokovic a leg up, creating a false near-parity with Federer. Their goal is to ensure a competitive final between two known quantities.

    The above brings us to the following reality: They postponed the Djokovic/Ferrer match because, as it was going, they would have been looking at a Murray/Ferrer final on Sunday, which would have been disastrous in terms of ratings. The wind was actually slower during the Ferrer/Djokovic match yet they postponed it anyway. These actions are not random and arbitrary; they have a very clear purpose.

    As netspirit said, these abnormal and extremely adverse conditions entirely prevented players from hitting shots with power, nullifying the advantage in class Berdych and Djokovic have over Murray. Murray didn't rise to the occasion; the occasion fell to him. Good on him for seizing it, but I don't think the air of flukiness that surrounds his first slam is going to go away any time soon. Nor should it.
     
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  34. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I think TTMR is giving too much credit to Murray. He didn't seize any occasion. He was basically just a bewildered spectator in all of his matches at the USO this year. Bogomolov just wouldn't let him lose, Dodig and Raonic were clearly frightened off their A games by the night-time conditions, Cilic clearly got rattled at the thought of having to play Federer or Berdych in the semi-final and decided to choke away his big lead, Berdych couldn't serve or put a ball into court due to the gale-force winds while Djokovic was clearly exhausted and traumatised by actually losing a set to Ferrer in their Grand Slam semi-final and, as everybody knows, he has never been able to play in windy conditions.

    It's a little known fact, but quite apparent at this year's USO, that strong winds actually favour Murray because his serve is so weak and slow that in calmer conditions it would rarely cross the net. A strong wind actually adds the missing speed and power to Murray's serve that wouldn't normally be there. Nadal also has a notoriously weak serve and usually does well in windy conditions for the same reason. However he is more versatile than Murray and when there is little or no wind around, as at the 2010 USO for example, he just adapts his serve to hit it harder and faster. Murray cannot do this.

    Djokovic and Federer, on the other hand, have such fast and powerful serves that they are very well suited to windless conditions eg. indoor. Strong gusts of wind, however, just carry their serves and groundstrokes too far out of court and so they very often miss whereas Murray's naturally weak serve is given an extra boost and is carried, more often than not, to just within the line.

    In short,TTMR is quite right. A combination of strong wind, choking and/or intimated opponents and an exhausted and traumatised final opponent must make the 2012 USO the flukiest outcome of all time. It's just so fluky that we can't really consider that Murray won it at all so much as all his opponents lost it! On this account, I think we should re-admit Murray to the Slamless Players' Society until he can prove that he can win a Slam in proper conditions against opponents who are actually willing to play!!

    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
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  35. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice. Especially in the final he just hit the ball in a vague direction and let the wind paint the lines for him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
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  36. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    for your information: the slowing down happened before fed won his first slam.

    It was mainly because in the 90s tennis was becoming an ace fest (becker, krajicek, goran, sampras...).

    in case you don't know there was tennis before nadal and federer...
     
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  37. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Berdych beat Murray once in a slam and that's FO (we all know Andy's not that great on clay), I'm not about to presume he would have beaten Murray at USO just like that if the conditions were different, he could have but my bet is Murray would still find a way to claw past him.

    Regarding Novak, while I think his chances would have been better in different (non-windy) conditions, fact is he and Murray were neck-to-neck in their HC encounters this year, aside from Dubai and Miami all of their matches were as close as they come so regardless of the conditions their USO final was bound to be a close encounter.

    I do think people are taking away credit from Murray's USO win with wind excuses, just as they are taking credit from Fed's Wimbledon win this year with "roof" excuses.

    Fact is, players are supposed to adapt to various different conditions and the players of today due to homogenization of surfaces/conditions have a luxury of having to do that to a lesser degree (by some margin) than say players of 80s and especially 90s had to.

    P.S. I don't think Murray's form at WTF this year was anything to wrote home about either, ever since he won USO he seems to have been a bit spent mentally which is perfectly understandable.


    Yes but the difference from 2008 USO and 2010 is that in 2012 Wimbledon and 2012 USO he kept his tourney average level of play in the finals and mentally seemed ready to fight to the last point while in 2008 USO, 2010 and 2011 AO he couldn't handle the slam final pressure.
     
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  38. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Murray has matured. His game has matured, his mind has matured and he's ready to compete for majors.
     
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  39. fps

    fps Legend

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    How do you fancy his chances of winning a slam next season?
     
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  40. nethawkwenatchee

    nethawkwenatchee Professional

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    Andy's past two seasons:
    (2011) 3X Semi-Finals 1X Final
    (2012) SF, QF, F, W

    I'd say he is a strong contender :)
     
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  41. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Now that's he's won one, I rate his chances a little bit higher than I would otherwise. Now that he's got over that first hurdle, I think it will give him that little bit extra confidence when playing in his next Slam final. I'm hoping so, anyway.
     
    #91
  42. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    I think this is an extremely apt description of Andy Murray and his presence on the court. In fact, it explains why Murray can so suddenly become frustrated and belligerent, and appear to have sudden drops in form. Murray has little control over the outcome of a match. He gets the ball back in play. The onus is on the shotmaker on the other side of the net to ensure balls don't come back. When the shotmaker starts shotmaking rather than shotmissing, Murray starts uttering obscenities, cursing his box and clutching his calf. It's because Murray has no answer. All he can do is just hope the other guy dips in form.

    Murray's lone slam will always be seen as a fluke because he is just not someone you imagine to be a slam winning guy. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Del Potro: these are slam winning guys. You step on the court against them in a big moment, and you know you're in tough. You can see the fear and resignation on their opponents' faces during slam matches. That expression is entirely absent when some journeyman or rookie comes up against Murray. They all know they have a shot at beating him. Murray is just not someone you think of when you think 'grand slam champion'. Nothing against him, he's just not a slam winning guy.
     
    #92
  43. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    I am sure his next slam final will be a lot closer than his first four.
     
    #93
  44. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    You have it exactly right. I don't think I have ever seen Murray win a match on his own merit. In nearly every case, his opponent is having an off-day either due to illness, plain tiredness or because he has personal problems or because he just cannot cope with adverse weather conditions. Murray just has this uncanny ability to sense when an opponent is off his A-game and he then hits as many balls as possible back across the net knowing his opponent will soon get frustrated and make an error. This is particularly true when he comes up against the top players and especially in Slams.

    Spot on again. Murray has never had to face any real opposition. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all had to struggle against Rosol-like goating up-and-coming young players from the bowels of the rankings when they played their first Slam finals, Del Potro had to play prime Federer whereas all Murray had to face was an exhausted, clapped-out Djokovic clearly traumatised at having to play two matches in a row in windy conditions. He just lucked out once again. Quite pathetic really although you can't really blame Murray if everything conspired to hand it to him on a plate.

    Nope, IMO we will just have to write off the 2012 USO as a no-show. Maybe one day, Murray will be able to win it or any other Slam when he has to face fully fit opponents in windless conditions. Until then, he is just a fluke who cannot be taken seriously as a Slam winner or as a top tennis player at all!

    :)
     
    #94
  45. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    While I agree that Netspirit managed to write eloquently, it didn't make their arguement any more compelling. A few slightly bigger than usual words thrown in doesn't stop it looking like fan sour grapes.

    Playing in the wind is a skill. Having a wider selection of shots to help you adjust to conditions is not a fluke, it's the result of natural talent and hard work.

    Everyone always says that slams are special because the winner has to beat seven players in five set matches across two weeks. Lesser players might manage one lucky match-up against an otherwise superior player, but across the whole tournament, a wider range of skills will be called upon. If you are lacking, you'll get dumped out sooner or later. Wind is always a factor in AA, and this year more than usual, so it's only right that this year's winner is someone who has put the hours in to develop a game to suit those conditions and the intelligence to know how and when to use which shots. Any player that has crossed their fingers and hoped that it doesn't get too windy so they can play their normal, limited game, doesn't deserve to win.

    I'd be interested to find out if any players who came unstuck in the wind stop moaning about it for long enough to work on it for next year.

    What next? Nadal's French Open wins don't count because his opposition isn't as good on clay? It's an equally bonkers proposition.
     
    #95
  46. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    In a way, yes. Not all eras are created equal. Nadal thrived against a notoriously desolate clay court field. Guys like Kuerten, Bruguera and Moya didn't have that luxury. Once Coria succumbed to the yips, the red carpet was all but laid out for Nadal.

    Contrarily, while clay court tennis was experiencing its most threadbare period ever, the mid-2000s saw the strongest hard court period in history, with big names on the cement like Hewitt, Safin, Roddick, Blake, Nalbandian and Agassi in full force. Unfortunately for them, prime Federer was simply too good for them to mount more than the most dispensable of challenges.
     
    #96
  47. Desertman

    Desertman Semi-Pro

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    Goodness, I'm amazed that three months on and several people here are still trying to deny the fact that Andy Murray won a grand slam tournament. All this talk about windy conditions etc. is really pointless. Two guys faced each other on a tennis court under the same conditions. It was a fair match and Andy Murray beat Novak Djokovic - plain and simple.

    Can we move on and just accept that Andy Murray is a grand slam winner. Much as it annoys and frustrates some posters on here, facts are facts. The record books, long after you or I or anyone else on these forums is long dead, will still have Andy Murray's name as 2012 US Open Champion.

    Get over it people.
     
    #97
  48. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Hear, hear. Well said! :cool:
     
    #98
  49. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Indeed. Murray has suffered enough by losing all those finals. If the Murray haters still aren't satisfied, then they will never be. Besides, he is going to win grand slams, under "normal" conditions, anyway. It's just a matter of time, so what does it matter?
     
    #99
  50. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Until he wins another slam under normal conditions this time...

    NO! 8)
     

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