Why hasn't Ferrer declined yet?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tank_job, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. tank_job

    tank_job Banned

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    30 years old, as physical a grinding style of play as you can get, a chain smoking habit, and the guy is getting the best results of his career.

    Is he some sort of freak, why isn't he declining?
     
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  2. Don Felder

    Don Felder Semi-Pro

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    Wow--I didn't realize he was quite 30. I thought he was about 28. He's a model of consistency, that's for sure. Did Ferrer have as much success/play as much tennis in the early part of his career? I don't remember seeing him around THAT much until the last 5 years. Maybe he's benefiting from having a lighter match load in the early part of his career. Or maybe I'm off base on that assumption--can't look up his record right now.
     
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  3. ChipNCharge

    ChipNCharge Professional

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    Ferrer is a chain smoker?? I wonder how many players on the tour smoke reguarly?
     
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  4. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps Yannick Noah could help us with this question?
     
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  5. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    It's the smoking.
     
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  6. zcarzach

    zcarzach Professional

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    Eees jus' talent, no?
     
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  7. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I think the Ferrer's smoking has been elevated to urban legend status. Yes, I believe he smoked at one point in his career (didn't someone post pictures?). Maybe he even still occasionally has a smoke, I don't know. But, people talk about it as if he has always and still does smoke multiple packs per day. I don't think that's the case. Nonetheless, even if he smokes one cigarette per week, it's SO out of line of what we expect from professional athletes.

    I don't know why he hasn't declined. We know he is an animal in the gym and his fitness regimine is outstanding. Other than that, he seems to just be lucky withy serious injuries and he might also be lucky in that his joints are primarily still "good" despite all the grinding tennis. Also, he's small, which sometimes (not always) makes a difference in regards to wear and tear.

    He isn't THAT old, but I guess for tennis, at least historically, he is.

    Someone had posted a thread the other day about age and "modern sports medicine" (without specificying what he was talking about), and how "modern sports medicine" allows players to stay in the game at a high level longer.
     
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  8. BeHappy

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    He's a late developer, he hadn't played many matches until he was in his mid twenties because he used to lose all the time.

    Most grinders are early developers like Chang, Hewitt, Borg etc who were all top players at 17. Ferrer doesn't have the miles on the clock they do.
     
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  9. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    He's super-fit and very consistent. Almost always plays to his strengths. He may be 30 but he plays more like someone 4 or 5 years younger!
     
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  10. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Unlike what TW would have you believe not all players start and end their primes and post primes at the same age. That's why it's best to discuss the sum total of achievements rather than compare achievements at a certain age.
     
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  11. Fed Kennedy

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    The Spanish training methods are superior.
     
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  12. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    Whether in the dinner plate or in smoke form, vegetables are good for you.
     
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  13. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    Standing by for dumb PED reference in 3...2...1...
     
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  14. djones

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    As of late people seem to realize that 30 isn't really that old actually.
    I think with the right attitude and motivation players could easily play at a high level when in their 30ies.
    Agassi is an example and now Federer as well.
    And I believe there were 37 players being 30 or over at the start of this Roland Garros.
    Also Haas at 34 was having a very good tournament.

    Btw, I 'like' that fact Ferrer is a smoker, shows you can very well be a Pro tennis player with bad habits.
    I think Grosjean smoked cigarettes as well.

    At 28, I might even take some tennis lessons, maybe it isn't too late for me :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
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  15. Emet74

    Emet74 Professional

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    I don't think Ferrer hit the top 10 'til 2007, as compared to Fed who's the same age but became top 10 in 2002 and top 5 in 2003, or Roddick who's 1 year younger but broke thru' around the same time as Fed.
     
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  16. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    There is no need from such. Dr. Cotorro approves.
     
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  17. ivan_the_terrible

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    Agreed completely - look at their dominance in cycling & football and the odd swimmer. The Spanish government decided awhile back to turn their country into a powerhouse athletic empire (who cares about the economy anyway?). Rumour has it they fashioned their training on the legendary East German mantra of hard work and austerity.
    The results speak for themselves - check out their progressively increasing medal hauls in the past Olympics, their superiority in cycling, #1-ranked football team & of course the dominance in tennis.

    Or maybe it's just something in the water over there..
     
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  18. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    I see what you did there.

    :twisted:
     
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  19. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    Yeah, the Conquistadors also used PEDs in their quests in the New World. On the other hand, maybe it was (and still is) that they have cojones.
     
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  20. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    Yes, cyclist Alberto Contador is a perfect example of Spanish dominance in sports.
     
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  21. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Oh so it all comes down to who has the biggest balls? Silly me, I thought it was more complicated than that.

    I particularly like your colonialist reference, not sure of the relevance to the topic, but it does tell me something about you.
     
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  22. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    We are talking about physical strength and not talent. PEDs don't target talent.

    Yeah, it tells you that contrary to 99% of the population I know some history and I don't let my mouth run faster than my brain.
     
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  23. ivan_the_terrible

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    I'm having trouble following you. Now you're saying that 'having cojones' means having physical strength? I thought 'having cojones' meant having intestinal fortitude, that's generally what the term means.

    Regarding your Conquistador comment, let me tell you what it tells me ;)

    It tells me that you know some history (is that something to brag about??) and it tells me that you think that invading other countries, stealing their valuables and killing the inhabitants in the process - shows that the invaders have 'cojones', which you admire. You equate the behaviour of these murderous colonialists with the current dominance of Spaniards in sports today.
    Somehow, I think Rafa and co would distance themselves from your analogy, but I could be wrong.
     
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  24. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Last year and this year are his best years. I guess he understands his game better, plays a better balance between Defense and Aggression.

    He more fit now than ever....then again I wouldn't know really why and anyone here wouldn't know here. Ferrer might not even tell us why he is better.....I guess Nadal will tell us after he beats him.
     
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  25. Rjtennis

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    I hate to say it but I really wonder about steriods with him. I do like Ferrer and all of the grit he shows, but i have no idea how he can stay healthy grinding the way he does. Ferrer doesnt win many easy points, he grinds everything out.
     
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  26. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    You missed 2011, son.
     
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  27. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    good point... just how is he even competing?
     
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  28. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    First of all, having "cojones" means having courage and fighting spirit. Courage and fighting spirit most often materializes in physical strength and stamina. Not that whoever has that gift necessarily has more physical strength and stamina than someone who doesn't, but that they are willing to draw them and use them to the maximum potential.

    Second of all, I agree that colonialism has obviously its bad aspects. Just like about any type of human endeavour. When Indian tribes killed each other and engaged in human sacrifices it was just "in-fighting". When the Spaniards waged war against them it was "colonialism". My point is that reality is far more complex than the vast majority of people are willing to acknowledge. The fact of the matter is that throughout history the strong have always prevailed, and that will continue happening as long as the human race exists because it is in our genetic makeup. We can only pray that those stronger than us are also more morally evolved than we are.

    But, to the point of this discussion, I maintain that Conquistadors needed cojones to achieved what they did, regardless of any moral merit of their campaigns.
     
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  29. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    Are you implying that Nole is on the juice? Because I don't believe it (I do believe that he is in a sophisticated regime of targeted nutrition and physical exercise, however) plus the occassional dose of hypobaric chamber treatments.

    None of that is illegal.
     
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  30. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    I've always been a fan of Ferrer. To me, more than Nadal or Djokovic, he exemplifies what many people might have achieved if motivated to such extremes. Also, the fact that he is the underdog and has managed to break into the top 10 again at his age, is amazing to me.
     
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  31. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    WHAT?

    You mean, like, for example, trying to find a cure against cancer? Or launching satellites in Space?

    Your view on Colonialism is rather simplistic one. The opposite of what you claim to have.

    And ivan_the_terrible is right. Your colonialistic ideas show a lot about you.

    No, they needed the more advanced weaponry and war tactics. That has nothing to do with balls. Are you sure that you are not a fan of Nadal? The entire VB believes, that Nadal's mental strength is directly transformed in some super human physical abilities.
     
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  32. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    Can you materialize your incredulity and articulate it into something with more than 1 syllable?


    Curing cancer has a lot of downsides. Experimentation with animals, people sacrificed in inhumane drug trials? Of course, you are just looking at the end results (the cure of cancer itself.) Most of the conquistadors were also convinced they were doing something good (and in a way, they actually did, by converting a savage people which engaged in human sacrifice and even cannibalism to Christianity.) Watch Apocalypto some time, it will do you some good. It is surprisingly accurate at a historical level. And if you don't agree, don't simply respond with "WHAT?"


    You just say I'm wrong but don't explain why. You used more syllables this time, but said as much as you did in your first response. Good try, but you need to try even harder.


    Of course weaponry and tactics were vital, but they needed plenty of cojones. They were vastly outnumbered and an extremely high percentage of them died. Can you understand that fact and at least appreciate the individual courage involved by the colonial soldiers?
     
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  33. The Hype

    The Hype New User

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  34. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    I am implying, that PEDs can give an athlete better chances to use his talent. Not to mention, that it is rather difficult to determine, what is talent in sport. Some people consider the hand-eye coordination a talent. And there are drugs, that can enhance indirectly your hand-eye coordination.

    As for Djoker. If something is too good to be true, it probably isn't.
     
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  35. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    Well, I agree with you to a point (regarding your first statement that PEDs might improve somebody's abilities to "better use their talent.")

    The problem is that steroids (if that's what you mean by PEDs) and their effects on the human body actually are detrimental to a tennis player. Not to mention that they shrink your family jewels :)

    As for Nole being on the juice, I don't believe it and I frown on those who do those sort of veiled and unsubstantiated accusations. As I do of those who do the same with Nadal.

    Here's a hint for you: Good nutrition and obsessive exercise will do wonders to anybody's body.
     
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  36. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    PEDS do not improve agility, athletic skill or cardiovascular capacity. In fact, there are studies that show they decrease these attributes.

    However, they do increase muscle bulk, strength and endurance by helping the body retain and maximize the use of protein(s), which in turn helps decrease recovery time between workouts or matches.

    It makes no sense for tennis players to abuse PEDS. A cycle or two here and there within the calendar year to maximize the retention of proteins is very likely however.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
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  37. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    I can and I have.


    Are you a PETA activist as well?

    What country do you live in? Because in the country, where I live, "inhumane drug trials" are prohibited by the law.

    So, Christianity was a gift to the indigenous people and somewhat superior to their own rituals and believes? I am pretty certain, that a lot more people were sacrificed in the name of this peaceful religion, that in the name of all the heathen Gods put together. Does the word "Inquisition" ring a bell?

    And what a hypocracy to claim, that Conquistadors went to Mexico and South America to spread Christianity. In the best case scenario, Christianity was a mere instrument, to spread influence. The real reasons to go there and stay there were a lot different.

    "Watch Appocalypto". My friend, Apocalypto refers to the Maya civilization. One , that was extinct several hundred years, before any Conquistador set foot on the American continent. There are a lot of sources, from which you can get your knowledge. Movies are not one of them.

    And the WHAT was not referring to your Colonialism remarks.

    What number of cojones would you say each and every one of them had? Just to quantify "plenty".

    I cannot understand the fact, and I highly doubt, that anyone, who was born and raised in today's relative rich countires can. Including you.
     
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  38. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    I don't remember you doing such a thing.

    I'm not a PETA activist. It doesn't take one to realize that many animals deserve to live far more than some so-called "human beings."

    Any ritual that involves human sacrifice and cannibalism in order to appease a pagan God I am certain needs to be exterminated.

    As far as The Inquisition being responsible for more deaths than all pagan religions... Don't make me laugh. Please do some basic research. How many people do you think "The Spanish Inquisition" (the one with the most infamous history, which, by the way, is highly undeserved) executed during all its history?

    I never said that was the primary objective of the Spaniards. Re-read my post. I said that most of them believed part of their mission was to christianize the heathen natives. And this served in many cases as a justification to commit their own inhuman acts and atrocities.

    Fair enough. I agree with you, and I don't claim to be a master historian. I was unaware of the Maya civilization.

    "Plenty" did not refer to number but to size. It is a very well established colloquial form of the term.

    In any case, enjoy your false sense of superiority and confidence in our times. Humanity is but a mere step from going back to the Stone Age.
     
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  39. BeHappy

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    Why are the French so much better at sports than the English? England doesn't have a single player in the 100. Steroids?



    Answer please.
     
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  40. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    All of the above! :)

    (Except for those who started ranting about completely unrelated cyclists :roll: )
     
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  41. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    No. The French simply bribe the ATP officials, umpires, and other people of influence in the highest spheres of professional tennis by baking them delicious bonbons and regaling them with free cheese platers. :)

    The joke above works on so many levels. In case you missed part of it: English cuisine sucks ballz. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
     
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  42. ViscaB

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    They invest much more in their "system". The French have a very different attitude than the English have. The French like to organize things from above. To plan things. You can see it in sports, in politics and even in city planning.
     
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  43. ViscaB

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    Exactly, he has much less mileage on his body being a late blossomer.
     
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  44. t135

    t135 Semi-Pro

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    There was a story about Ferrer giving up on tennis at one point in his career. He quit playing and with no education and job skills wound up working as a brick mason making next to nothing. After a while he realized what a gift his tennis career was and went back to it completely inspired and motivated. The rest is history.

    I like the guy. He's a good role model except for the smoking.
     
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  45. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Nonsense.

    What finishing school of soccer did THeirry Henry, Zinidene ZIdane, Nicolas Anelka etc go to?

    Why Has Sweden so many top tennis players? Even today they have Soderling and Johannson won the AO a few years ago, and the other johannson was unlucky and had to retire. Edberg, Wilander and Borg have over 20 slams between them, how did that happen?

    Why did Belgium produce Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters?
     
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  46. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Human sacrifices were a product of the belief systems of those times.

    Colonialism was a carefully planned move to usurp land and wealth and control the people for the benefit of others, often on a foreign continent.

    Because there was slavery in the US does not give sanction to Russia to invade the US. A civil war in one country can cause justified international peace efforts and failing that, some military action, but colonialism was not that. It was just going and sitting on someone's else's property, with some loose legal justification like forcibly signed consent agreements or some fake moral outrage against "uncivilized" activities.

    A couple can have disagreements but a third person cannot occupy the home because of that. The state may interfere if children are in danger, but some arbitrary guy cannot go and drive the parents from their home.

    There have been many side benefits of colonialism, including tennis and cricket and education, and many colonials were ordinary people making a living where they found opportunities. That does not justify the system. It is like forcibly putting a police officer in your home and claiming that he is there to protect you. And he may be just an ordinary and good guy, but you will not accept it.
     
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  47. Wolfman Jack

    Wolfman Jack Banned

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    I kind of understand your point of view (which is the run-of-the mill perspective that colonialism is bad and colonial powers are just selfish.)

    My point is: So what? Like I said, tribes in the American continent were in constant war against each other. Battles with undiscriminated bloodshed, rapes, killing of innocent children, and capture of slaves, were commonplace.

    The Spaniards established a more humane society, and took whatever wealth they could find along the way. Do you think that wealth belonged to the natives by virtue of the fact that they were born in that land? Native Americans didn't even have the same concept of property and ownership that was prevalent in civilized countries in Western Europe.

    The strong always conquers and takes away from the weak. It happens at the cellular level, and the political level, and everywhere in between.

    The Spaniards ended a backwards civilization that was keen on sacrificing children and extracting the hearts of still-alive captives to appease their gods. All South Americans are indebted to Spain for ending such horror. Obviously, the process wasn't painless, but surgery always involves a certain degree of controlled destruction.
     
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  48. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Huh?!?

    Have you looked at the Olympic medal table for the Summer Olympics for France and United Kingdom?

    All time and the most recent Beijing Olympic games?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairefontaine

    And there are such centers on lower levels in many parts of France.

    Besides, France profits from its vastly superior gentic pool, due to the infiltration of citizens from its former colonies. Especially in Football. Which is not the case with UK.

    Next time, if you do not know, ask.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
    #48
  49. BeHappy

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    Haha what?????????????????????????????????????????

    If you think England doesn't have enough "infiltration of people from it's former colonies" I don't know what to tell you! 15% of prisoners in the UK are black.

    Why is France currently better at tennis , Rugby and Soccer? The three sports England invented and concentrate on.


    Tennis: Ten top 100 players for France, 0 top 100 players for England.

    Soccer: France won the world cup in 1998 and were finalists in 2006, England hasn't won a world cup or been to a final since 1966.

    Rugby: France reached the final of the last World Cup and won the Grand Slam in 2010. England hasn't won the Grand Slam in 10 years.

    Clearly there is a steroid programme in France!



    And subtract the cycling medals and France is doing far better than England in the Olympics!
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
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  50. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

    Why subtract the cycling medals? Why is England doing better in cycling than France, the home of the Tour de France and of many more recognized international cycling events?
     
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