Why Is The Clay Warrior So Hard To Beat

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Death Master, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    I think he can do a little better on the return. he still drops it a bit too short at times.


    nobody on the planet can pass as well as he can so why not jerk them around a little bit.why not drag them into the net a little more. bring them in and then ruin them.

    he can make more effective use of that slice which seems to be improving.

    a short slice can bring them in.

    he also does not use the topspin lob enough. that topspin lob comes very naturally to him since he already imparts heavy topspin off both wings.


    some of this will start to take their rhythm away. it will keep them on their toes and keep them guessing.


    I will have more to say about this later.
     
    #51
  2. redpurusha

    redpurusha Rookie

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    All you Nadal fans (I mean the super fans, not just tennis fans who respect Nadal's success). Do you play his style of game or try to copy it?
     
    #52
  3. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    I played with heavy topspin off both wings but I had a single hander (backhand).

    I played more like muster and vilas.
     
    #53
  4. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Clay counts too. Stop excluding it from the h2h as if it doesn't even matter.
     
    #54
  5. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    nadal has ruined their lives. even the federereeeeeeesian fans are terrified of nadal.

    they cant sleep at night because they think the clay warrior is coming for them.


    he is.
     
    #55
  6. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    clay counts more than any other surface under the sun.

    you really have to produce on clay.
     
    #56
  7. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Rafa is a very good competitor with a great Fh, great shots when he's pushed to the brink, and must say that he overcomes problems.
    That being said, he has a huge advantage over the field since he's a lefty. Rafa's serve and topspin backhand are average, and his slice is pedestrian. His game is mostly based on not taking risks unless he doesn't have a choice - hit high, short and middle (relatively speaking) until it's safe to hit a winner or there's no other choice. To quote Rafa himself - "I don't know how I win against Djokovic".

    I like Rafa, but let's not get carried away and go overboard because he just won the last slam. Every great player has a style of play, and a place in history. You don't have to degrade the opposition to praise Rafa.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
    #57
  8. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    we are not degrading anybody.

    its the federereeeeeeeesian missionaries who are constantly degrading rafa:

    1. he is a cheat

    2. he is a doper

    3. he is just lucky

    4. it must be the surface

    5. he sucks on indoor hard courts

    6. he is a clown and a monkey

    7. all he can do is play on clay

    8. he is one dimensional

    9. he would be no good if his uncle does not coach him from the stands


    its on and on. I mean it never ends.


    all we are saying is that we know better. we know that nadal is a match winning machine.

    all he does is win.
     
    #58
  9. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    ROTFL yes it does. Keep dreaming otherwise though.
     
    #59
  10. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Exactly. Nadal fans should simply start referring to Nadal's 21-5 non indoor record vs Federer. It would even be more valid as clay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indoor courts in importance these days (well always really).
     
    #60
  11. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    figure it out. its a little too simple.

    all 4 slams are over and done and have been decided.

    we will watch wtf because we are tennis junkies but it really means nothing in the long run scheme of things.


    what matters the most is as follows:

    1. slams won. it is the ultimate gold standard of head to head
    2. against whom those slams were won
    3. total head to head
    4. masters shields
    5. davis cup singles wins
    6. Olympic gold medal in singles



    it an individual sport. head to head is everything.
     
    #61
  12. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Your assessment is subjective. You do ignore wtf, which are played. I'm not sure where it ranks, but definitely below #3.
     
    #62
  13. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    they have been trying to save wtf for years. now there is talk that it has to be moved again.

    it may end up at Madison square garden.


    translation: nobody gives a damn about it. it is just about worthless.
     
    #63
  14. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    No, that's not true. The event is up for bids after a contract is up. I believe it's meant to be a rotating event, otherwise it wouldn't be open for bidding.

    Could you imagine if the tournament was on clay versus hc the dismay some fans would have. At the same time, if it had been on clay vs. indoor hc, and Rafa won a lot, would you rank the tournament higher in your list?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
    #64
  15. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    1. Why are you referring to yourself as "nobody?"

    2. For Novak Djokovic, last year's winner, it was worth $1.76 million and 1,500 ranking points.
     
    #65
  16. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    it does not get the viewership mate.


    its a useless event.

    the world doesn't give a damn about this event.
     
    #66
  17. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    that is pocket change to him.

    and he too can have all the wtf titles he wants.


    nadal will just take all the slams for now until he is done with them.
     
    #67
  18. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    First you referred to yourself as "nobody," now you're referring to yourself as "the world." Will you please make up your mind?
     
    #68
  19. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    I am general death.
     
    #69
  20. Graf1stClass

    Graf1stClass Semi-Pro

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    :roll:




    10cha
     
    #70
  21. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Uhm, no, not "only".

    Agassi talks about that in the same press conference someone else quoted here:
    "Q. You said you'd have the best seat in the house. I'm curious as to your impressions of the young man.

    ANDRE AGASSI: Well, he has a difficult game. It's certainly easy to see why he's won so many matches. He does a lot of things really well. Just a great mover on the court. Gets good power from very stretched positions so you're never quite sure if you have complete control of the point. I found his serve more awkward than I was anticipating because if you don't hit a good return, he immediately gets on the offense. That's a sign of a great player: somebody who can play good defense, but also when they get ahold of a point, they don't let go of it. He's one of those guys that if he gets ahold of a point, he's not going to let go of it. It puts more pressure on you to hit a quality return, and it moves a little bit. I felt like today that was a big difference. I wasn't getting neutral enough right off his serve. That surprised me a little bit."

    True, but he has played very tough players in finals. He's lost 4 finals to Fed and Rafa.
     
    #71
  22. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    This should be a sticky post for those who think Nadal fans are the ones that are out of order.

    I'd like to see a Federer fan produce a list of things that Nadal fans say about Federer that includes such bile.
     
    #72
  23. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That's so true. So many times people look at a number and fail to see what influences that number. Looking at it this way, Novak's stats don't look so bad. In those 6 losses he has only lost to Nadal, Federer, and Murray. It doesn't get any tougher than that.
     
    #73
  24. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    1. No competition
    2. Fat wife
    3. Arrogant snob
    4. Lucky
    5. Doper
    6. No class
    7. Unworthy goat
    8. Cross-dress
    9. Big nose
    10. Faker

    The list goes on and on...
     
    #74
  25. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    1. I do agree that he had no competition from 2004 to 2007, so I consider that factual.

    2. Mirka is heavy and it's probably in response to those who try to convince others that Mirka was "hot."

    3. Federer is arrogant as evidenced by comments such as "I amaze myself." and "Djokovic was lucky," when he hit a good shot to ultimately win the match.

    4. Every player gets a bit of luck, imo, nothing wrong with that.

    5. Doper? That's a stretch, but posters can't call Nadal and Novak dopers and not expect Fed to get some mug slung at him. This is in response to attacks made from a certain fan base.

    6. Again, for those who claim that he is so classy while denigrating other players.

    7. He does need to beat his greatest rivals, that is a goat criteria.

    8. Haven't seen the cross dress remarks. If so, without proof that's ridiculous.

    9. His nose is big, just like Nadal picks his bum. Can't get mad about that.

    10. Faker? Not sure about that one either.

    However, don't you think that many of the things people say about Federer are in response to the nasty things some posters say about other players? The best way to not have people retaliate, is to not attack in the first place. Otherwise, you get (not you) as good you give.

    There are so many horrible and untrue things said about Nadal on a daily basis without an iota of proof. Many of the things you listed can be proved, i.e. Federer does have a big nose, Mirka is heavy, and Federer has made many questionable comments throughout the years. Big difference.
     
    #75
  26. redpurusha

    redpurusha Rookie

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    So "Death Master" and "Dark Night" are the same person different usernames right, or is it one kissing Nadal's *** while the other one launders his towels?
     
    #76
  27. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    And you call others biased?.

    Lol :)

    A "huge" advantage?. You do realize that just like his fh goes to other players' bh, the same is true the other way around, right?.

    He hasn't been doing that much lately.
     
    #77
  28. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    I am general death.

    and we just call it like we see it.

    we are armed with the truth on our side.

    while all you are armed with is old, tired, stale, and useless rhetoric.
     
    #78
  29. MrFlip

    MrFlip Semi-Pro

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    Death Master where were you when Nadal got owned 6-0 by Djokovic in 2011? There will be better players than Nadal and Federer.
     
    #79
  30. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    nadal has a winning record against 100% of the top 30 players.

    no way around that.

    nobody owns nadal.
     
    #80
  31. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    I like that post! #TeamRafa :)
     
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  32. Backspin1183

    Backspin1183 Legend

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    Because apart from Djokovic, none of his rivals have the heart to hang with him.
    Laver would have toyed with this clay and hardcourt specialist from Majorca.
     
    #82
  33. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    That's silly. Laver is 5'8". He would be an also ran in modern game.
     
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  34. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    laver was fantastic in his era.

    he would be a towel boy in the modern era.
     
    #84
  35. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    Yep . Just like how our 3.5 TW forum members can have Nadal for their breakfast on a bad day with out breaking a sweat.
     
    #85
  36. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    The Ultimate Doomsday Stroking Machine was originally a reference to Rosewall.

    Interesting comparison.
     
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  37. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    damn. I had no idea.

    now I have come up with another nickname for the clay warrior.
     
    #87
  38. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    perhaps "the ultimate topspin death machine".
     
    #88
  39. dooknookem

    dooknookem Rookie

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    Lucifer's Hammer
     
    #89
  40. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    butt picker warrior
     
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  41. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    you can do better than that.
     
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  42. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I like that !
     
    #92
  43. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    He's a great player and great competitor. This is also what makes him a bit less endearing to me; when he is on the losing end he seems to have the aura of a disgruntled teenager, and it does not go away untill he is on the winning end.
     
    #93
  44. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Rafa keeps his mental composure on court better than any other player. This is a patently absurd comment.
     
    #94
  45. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    clay warrior has a long history of injuries.

    so he has his ups and downs as any athlete would in any sport.

    he still manages to hold his own.
     
    #95
  46. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    #96
  47. CurrenFan

    CurrenFan Rookie

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    Seriously, name any other tennis player in history who has such an angry look to his face in most of his matches. You can't do it - there has been no one like that, just like there's been no one else who is as good on clay (a statement that a biased fan might say but it is nonetheless the accurate truth). Rafa spends half his time on court with a look of savagery on his face every bit as intense as a WWE professional wrestler, in the midst of a 'roid rage, who has almost forgotten that his event is scripted. Seriously, have you ever even seen your beloved "RAFA!" play?

    Biased? Yes, it's true that Nadal is my least favorite men's player since.... well, I can't remember when - maybe McEnroe in a match when he was relying on gamesmanship instead of his tremendous talents (Mac is simultaneously one of my favorite and least favorite players). But I suspect he'll overtake Federer's record and even if he doesn't, there's truth to the point that he's the only one in his era with a winning record against ALL of his competition - that says a great deal. So the fact that I dislike Nadal doesn't mean that I can't be objective about his positives. However, the fact that you are teenager-with-a-crush-head-over-heals for the guy does mean that your bias prevents you and your ilk from acknowledging any of his negatives.

    ===================================

    To add my two cents on the issue of today's greatest versus the great players of yesteryear, correct me if I'm wrong, but since at least WWII, the sport has never regressed - each generation's players have been faster, fitter, and harder hitting than the last, correct? During the USO a few weeks ago, Tennis Channel played some sort of top-5 hardest fought US Open matches or something to that effect and one of the top matches was between Connors and Borg, occuring sometime in the wood racquet erra (T2000 for Connors), maybe 1978 to 1980. In comparison to today's game, it was almost like watching amateurs versus the pros, the lackadaisical way those two HOF players pitched a serve over the net or took a loopy topspin or chopped a lazy slice. Their effort levels were genuinely only about 60%, maybe even 50% of how the top pros nowadays play. Honestly, they were playing not much differently, in terms of effort and intensity (obviously I'm not talking skill and consistency), than I see in a hard-fought rec league match, which I've never thought of comparing versus today's pros. Clearly, some of that was the equipment plus the USO was slower back then, played on clay. However, they looked so effortlessly blase about the majority of their shots that it looked like if you sent even David Ferrer 35 years back in a time machine, he would pound those legends around the court mercilessly and just overpower them. I can't imagine that 10-15 years earlier, Laver played any harder.

    Unquestionably modern racquets and string have made a very big impact on the sport, but I wouldn't imagine that advances in equipment is more than half the story - wasn't Roscoe Tanner able, on a regular basis, to hit a 140mph serves, and had a 153mph serve, with one of those primitive wood-and-gut implements? I think fitness and effort have improved hugely since then. It's purely speculative to say whether Borg or Laver or anyone else from that wood racquet era could have increased their fitness levels and intensity of play to modern levels if they had been born 20-40 years later. But to add my speculative opinion, I'd say that based on what I've seen in some of those old matches, today's top-20 player wouldn't lose a service game and would only fail to break serve once or twice a set, if that, against those HOF players if you time-machined them to 2013 and handed them a current pro-level racquet.
     
    #97
  48. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    I have seen my beloved Rafa play, yes, and he looks extremely focused, intense and even fierce. Not angry.
    It's not a negative. In fact, I love it.

    Lol, more of your silly bias. The "fact" I'm a teenager with a crush on him?. I guess your bias doesn't let you understand that his fans love his tennis, there are people who like a different kind of tennis than what you like, just so you know.
     
    #98
  49. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    let the mindless blind hate flow freely.


    he is one of the most humble champions ever lived.


    he does what he does on the court only to drive himself. he is just trying to urge himself on.
     
    #99
  50. Death Master

    Death Master Banned

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    so what is the verdict sports fans?

    why is he so damned difficult to deal with on the tennis court?
     

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