Why Laver didnt win a slam after 1969?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by bonga77, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Ignorant? Mean? Okay, maybe your English isn't as good as I thought it was.

    As for Rosewall's post 31yo major titles, I wasn't thinking of pro majors. I think it bears keeping in mind that winning a two week event after 31 is significantly more difficult than winning a one week event. If Rosewall had met Connors in the first round of Wimbledon and the U.S.O. in 1974, instead of the final, he might have been able to make a battle of it.

    BTW, you forgot to give me credit for correcting you on Laver's major record in the 70's.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  2. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    No, I meant majors. That's what this thread is about, no! Laver played 8 major events in 8 years after 1969.
     
  3. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    treblings, you are right: I have just listened to that "Jazz sonata" opus 111. I had a discussion with a poster (I forgot his nick-name) if there is a jazz passage
    He denied it but as the Vienna Visionary I hear clearly that speedy jazz passage composed by another Vienna Visionary (L.v.B).

    It could easily be that I dream of Limpinhitter because I get angry when thinking of him...
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  4. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Allow me to recommend opus 109 (Gesangvoll, mit innigster Empfindung Andante, molto cantabile ed espressivo) as the finest piano composition by the Wiener Visionär.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Thanks for correcting me. That way Laver's balance is even worse regarding majors after 1969.

    You have understood my English words very well...

    You are the first since a long time here in this forum who does not consider pro majors...
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  6. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I still have Laver as the world's best player in 1970 due to his dominance throughout the year, despite his poor showings at Wimbledon and the US Open. Laver was probably seen as the best player in a given match up to 1973 by the experts, fans and players. However in 1971-1973, his consistency was dropping off a bit and his record in the majors continued to be very poor by his standards.

    In the 1970s, Laver had just 1 quarter final appearance in a major. It was shocking when Roger Taylor beat Laver at 1970 Wimbledon, and then more upsets happened and the surprise wore off bit by bit when Dennis Ralston beat Laver at the 1970 US Open, Mark Cox beat him at the 1971 Australian Open and then Tom Gorman beat him at 1971 Wimbledon. Those were terrible losses for Laver, and there's no getting around it. In the 1960s, Laver nearly always found ways to win these matches.
     
  7. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Hmmm. I think you are a little confused about jazz. This is what real jazz sounds like.

    Instrumentals:
    "Manteca" by The Dizzy Gillespe Big Band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3tNKTgjNzA
    "April in Paris" by The Count Basie Orchestra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmNeRAQUG2c
    "Night in Tunisia" by Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHKyVJ5YfNU
    "Song for My Father" by Horace Silver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLdm1yuoU_Q
    "Killer Joe" by Quincy Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqh8VSxm9Hw&playnext=1&list=PLA8217AC14765A30C&feature=results_video

    Vocals:
    "If you Went Away" by Sarah Vaughan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1EuFTL-MuY
    "I'm Glad There is You" by Gloria Lynn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYyB4tODRQM
    "Nature Boy" by Nat King Cole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSLb0Ov-jHU

    PS: If Sarah Vaughan's and Gloria Lynn's voices don't make your knees weak, then you're not human.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  8. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I don´t think you can honestly say I did not provide some data on Kodes, other than his results at the Slam tournaments.But if you need some, I´ll bring it up.

    Good quote on Nastase being probably superior to Laver ( although not by much) in 72 and 73.I think Ilie had already beaten Rod before he reached his prime, around 1970 or 1971.
     
  9. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    for me it´s time to give my laptop and myself some well-deserved rest:)
    wünsche noch viel spaß beim diskutieren und grüße nach Wien:)
     
  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In my opinion, from 1970 to 1973, the only man you could reasonably put your money in to win any given major at any given time was only John Newcombe.

    Of course, you can never underrate the talents of the greatest all time player, but Newcombe was the right guy to bet on at that time.
     
  11. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It´s not that Laver did not win a major ever since 69....it´s not he only played two non slam yet major fianls at Dallas...but in slam action, the guy did not even reach one single damned semifinal.it is a clear indicator that he could not care the less about it ( how curious is that he, instead, was hypermotivated for the Dallas showcase)
     
  12. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Fine: I also love opus 109. In the short second set there is also a jazz-like passage of about 12 notes. But I believe that the Appassionata and opus 111 are even a bit greater. But I like all 32 Beethoven sonatas. There also are the modern Diabelli variations...
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  13. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Fine, you confirm my opinion that you are ignorant also regarding Beethoven's jazz...

    I strongly guess you never heard opus 111 to judge if it contains jazz.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  14. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Yes, Nastase beat Laver in a great final at Wembley in 1971.
     
  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Schlafe gut! (sleep well).
     
  16. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    So, you know nothing of jazz!
     
  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I don't disagree but regarding 1970 to 1972 the best majors record (including WCT Finals) was achieved by.....K. R. Rosewall.
     
  18. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I think BobbyOne is Ken Rosewall's Joe Pike.
     
  19. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    And you have any proof for your claim??
     
  20. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    The only field where you are expert is to diminish Rosewall and myself. It's boring...
     
  21. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I posted my proof. You didn't listen to it because you don't want to learn.

    PS: You can lead a horse to water . . . .
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  22. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    You forgot TMF.
     
  23. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Believe me, I have heard enough Jazz to be able to judge that Beethoven is greater than Jazz (excluding his own Jazz).

    I guess I have heard more Jazz than you have heard Classic Music...
     
  24. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Maybe, but, I doubt it. You can lead a horse to water . . . .
     
  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Thanks that you remind me to your ugly insulting of TMF. You are obnoxious.
     
  26. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    No comment.
     
  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You could be right, but definitely not in 73, which is a close race involving Newcombe (AO and USO), Kodes (Wimbledon and FH finals) and, of course, Nastase (FO and Masters).I would pick Newcombe since the USO was the toughest contest of the year and Newk also won the DC finals beating Smith.

    In 72 Nastase won FH, the Masters and lost the Wimbledon final as opposed to Rosewall´s great AO+WCT duo.Close call, can go either way.Smith could also have a legitimate claim since he won Wimbledon and lost a great Masters final to Nastase, but it should be a Rosewall/Nastase race for nº 1.

    In 71, Rosewall also did the double Melbourne/Dallas in the best AO event for years, while 4 other players won the remaining 4 major titles.I give the edge to Rosewall.

    In 70, Rosewall lost the Wimbledon final but won the US Open.based on majors, Rosewall has the edge although in terms of number of events won, the edge goes to Laver.

    However, for a single match, everybody put their money on Newcombe, as I said, for 3-4 years.
     
  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Mule headed stubbornness!
     
  29. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, very reasonable analysis.

    A few comments: I believe that 1970 to 1973 did not have clear cut No.1 players.

    I rank Rosewall, Laver and Newcombe No.1 for 1970.

    Smith, Newcombe and Rosewall for 1971.

    Nastase and Smith for 1972 . I omit Rosewall!

    Nastase and Newcombe for 1973. Sorry no Kodes...
     
  30. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Your statements speak for themselves!
     
  31. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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  32. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  33. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    hoodjem,

    I love Schubert's piano music even almost more than the great Beethoven piano music: sonatas and impromptus.
     
  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes won the Wimbledon title over a field that included Nastase, the recent french Champion...don´t forget that.
     
  35. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Kiki,

    That fact has been drummed into everyone's minds by you.:)

    But I don't think Kodes was number one for 1973. I may disagree slightly with BobbyOne and perhaps rank Nastase number one for the year. Nastase also won the important Italian Open and the Masters at the end of the year.
     
  36. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Kodes is as good a choice as Nastase, but I agree Nastase´s peak is better than Kodes one.

    Similar to Budge´s peak higher than...Vines?
     
  37. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    hoodjem,

    But I forgot to mention that IMO Schubert composed the very greatest piano work: the "Fantasie für Klavier zu 4 Händen" (two players) D 940. This music brings me often to tears....
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  38. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    But he did not meet him.
     
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    pc1,

    Yes , Nastase was great that year but Newcombe won two majors including the N.1 tournament of the year plus the Davis Cup. For me a "classical" situation to rank them both No.1.
     
  40. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    and whose fault was it, Kodes or Nastase?
     
  41. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    All time greats:

    Davis,Parker,Monk,Blakney,Coltrane,Jones,Rollins,Williams,Cole,Fitzgerald,Metheny,Brecker,Marsalis and Hancock on clay/grass

    Page,Hendrix,Van halen,Townshend,Jagger,Lennon,Waters/Barret,Mercury,Angus,Blackmore,Gilmour and, of course,John Fogerty on hard/indoors
     
  42. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    However, Kodes did not beat Nastase in that tournament.
     
  43. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, and Mc Enroe didn´t beat Connors at the 1983 W final.So, let´s take that title off his record, he certainly did not deserve it¡¡¡
     
  44. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Don't try to argue like Limpinhitter or Dan Lobb. You will not totally reach them...

    I never said that Kodes' title of Wimbledon 1973 is of no worth.But it was diminished in its worth because the whole tournament was rather weak as most top players were absent and the only remaining star, Nastase, was beaten early.
     
  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg and Connors weren´t stars, right.

    Come down to our Solar System, please, for a while.
     
  46. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    In June 1973 both Connors and Borg did not be real star players.They were seeded only 6 and 5 in that weak Wimbledon field, even behind Metreveli. But Connors finished the year on a high note though.

    kiki, I just landed on earth!! It might be a great step for tennis world...(smilie)
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  47. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    a few month after that tournament, Borg and Connors were top five guys, winning and reaching major finals at will against a tremendously high level of opposition.And Connors had his best year ever, by the way.

    Metrevali had already reached a few major semis, he was not by any means in the same league as Nastase,Connors and Borg, but a consistent and dangerous player as pro peers knew.

    Did you find Nusslein in that trip overseas the Solar System'
     
  48. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Borg was a top player only almost a year later when he won the French Open.

    I met Hans ("Hanne") Nüsslein! He told me that he boycotts kiki's posts because kiki once called him a journeyman...
     
  49. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    But he was a very well paid journeyman, isn´t it?
     
  50. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    So apparently Hans starred in this show.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0948538/

    :)

    Hans was a tennis player who journeyed back in time to save players from amateur tennis.
     

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