Why oh why did Kosakowski go pro?

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by jdubbs, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

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    To be accurate, I'm not familiar with Amer Delic's schedule. I do know that he went to school while on tour.
     
  2. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Well, you can be a ball feeder giving lessons to housewives and beginners (that's where the majority of the players are in tennis) for the rest of your life, or you be Director of Tennis at a club, for instance. That takes knowledge of finance, marketing, business...all skills that they typically require a college degree for.
    Which one makes more sense in the long run?
    I know of a former pro that finished at Stanford and retired a couple of years ago to a very good professional job paying 6 figures plus.
    Not going to be able to do that when the money runs out in 2-3 years and he's faced with either paying for college or giving lessons for the rest of his life.
     
  3. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    So maybe I was off on my estimate, but there are still big tournaments to play after the US Open. There are 1000s, Shanghai & Paris, plus 500s, Tokyo, Valencia, Basel, Bejing. If you're a lower level pro, around 100, & you are able to play these tourneys, it's in your best interest to play these to gain enough pts to be able to get directly into the bigger tournaments the following year.
     
  4. socaltennnis

    socaltennnis Rookie

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    I can't believe I am having this conversation, but here it goes. You do know there is more than just one way to live life, right? Just because a college degree is the traditional way that people go before making a living does not mean its the only way nor is it even an assured way of having a comfortable living. Depending on what concentration your degree is in, your degree can have little net value in the real world. On top of that, college tennis players are not majoring in the most job-desirable majors out there. They are typically graduating in jock majors and go into jobs that are outside their degree or sticking with tennis jobs.

    A Stanford graduate having a 6 figure salary does not have general application to all college graduates just as John Isner doing 4 years of college tennis and becoming top 10 have general application to all American juniors. You are just choosing two examples at the top of their professions. And if anyone were to end up with a low paying desk job or ranked 300th in the world, who are we to judge them or their decisions?

    And why is "giving lessons for the rest of ones life" such a bad thing?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  5. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    I sort of stopped at "I can't believe I'm having this conversation"
    Sort of why they invented message boards, didn't they? I guess I could have made another Fed/Nadal thread but I found this an interesting topic.
    And, since it's generated a lot of replies, others are also interested, pro and con.

    And giving lessons is an option, not the best one, but it's always good to have options.

    I guarantee Kosakowski -and I'm just picking on him, there are lots just like him -will one day be asking himself a lot of the same questions and wonder if he had chosen another path of finishing school before going pro, whether that would have been the better option.

    Something to think about, that's all. I hope the kid makes it big...we need more great American players after all.
     
  6. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  7. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    It's not as bad as gymnastics, but in pro tennis, for the most part, the
    late teens to early 20's appears to be when most top pros start to
    make their mark. If you think you might have a chance, then you probably
    have to go for it and skip college. Not sure why it is, considering that
    for men, the age they hit their peak strength and speed may not be as
    a teenager. Not sure about reflexes, recovery, etc.
     
  8. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    You do know that Kosakowski has an older brother & sister, Marcin & Sylvia, both of whom went to DI schools for four yrs, both of whom are now, guess what, teaching tennis for a living.
     
  9. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    Easy to guarantee something which probably we'll never be able to verify!

    I guess I'm just wondering how many players like Kosakowski there really are who wind up toiling in obscurity because they gave up their scholarship.

    My guess (and it's just a guess, I don't travel in those circles) is that most guys who reach that high a level at his age end up doing fairly well for themselves, unless they make other bad choices.
     
  10. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    When I look for a new doctor I usually check to see where they
    studied and did their interning.

    When i see Devry University or University of Phoenix, I feel relieved because I know they got
    some Kwality education.
     
  11. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Another degree snob.

    All these folks here talk about kids needing to go to college, play college tennis and get their degree. Then play pro tennis. It's all because they'll never make it on the pro tour and it cost's too much, $150K a year blah, blah, blah. Then an ATP touring pro gets his degree from an credited college and then it's isn't good enough. Playing pro tennis before college or getting a degree while playing the tour, there's no way to win.

    Name one doctor who you've ever personally been to that has a degree from Devry University or University of Phoenix. Although many may not exist, you can't name one.

    I'm sure you'll scoff at the following pros who have completed college degrees.
    http://www.10sballs.com/2011/12/16/vera-zvonareva-and-mikhail-youzhny-earn-college-degrees/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janko_Tipsarević
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  12. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    For from it, mate. My objections to certain for-profit online universities is that
    they are often *REALLY* expensive and the attendees end up with huge loans.
    They are given a sales pitch that they'll make a lot of money with their online
    degree so they bite the bullet and many end up in a bit of financial
    mess when they default on a big federal loan.

    I think there are often community colleges and city colleges (both public and
    Less expensive) that would have been better options.

     
  13. formula16

    formula16 Rookie

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    I dont think isner would have anywhere close to the success he is having if it wasnt for that serve
     
  14. kme5150

    kme5150 Rookie

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    I agree, but that can be said about a lot of guys like Roddick, Karlovic, and Raonic.
     
  15. info81

    info81 New User

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    My 2 cents

    I am a newbie here but I say if someone wants to play pro they should skip collage. I did not go to collage until I was 23. I did not play tennis but worked at other things that did not pan out. If someone really wants to go back to school they will go back. 23-24 is not that old to start school and lots of people attend collage without a scholarship. If we want to have great American players they need to be dedicated. I think those years on the tour would help you in school later as well.

    Having said that it is great that tennis is a global sport and people from Eastern Europe are hungry to win. For a female athlete it is one of the only sport where you can make big money.
     
  16. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Plus, the great thing about college is that the chicks are always the same age
     
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    We should let everyone live their own life.
    K would probably never buckle down in college anyways, wasn't going to study and be a bookworm. Notice his hair lenght.
    He's more a free spirit, living out his dreams.
    And when he's 26, after graduating (if he stayed in school), he'd wonder why he didn't go for it when he had the chance.
    He made the right move, for HIM at the time.
     
  18. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Interesting post.
     
  19. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    .....................
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  20. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    i just wanted to give my 2 cents for what its worth. given the opportunity to take a stab at being a pro tennis player i think i would go for it. as for the whole free ride to college thing, my company offers full tuition reimbursement. there are a lot of companies that offer tuition, even to employees who arent very high in the corporate structure. for me college was fun and a good experience, but how many ppl get to take a stab at the tour.
     
  21. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    A few years ago I played in a pro-am during a Challenger event in Dallas. The pro I was playing doubles with had a little bruise over his left eye and I asked him about it. He shrugged it off as nothing but I got him to tell me the story. The week before, while staying in a single hotel room with five other players, an argument had broken out which involved a little pushing and shoving. Apparently, after sharing a couple of pizzas everyone wanted to take the last piece in their bag to eat the next day.
     
  22. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Point is though, you can take a stab at the tour at 22...players are all older anyway nowadays on tour.
     
  23. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    It's definitely doable and surprising how many folks don't get it still. The days of Capriatti, Agassi, etc turning pro in their early teens are pretty much over. College is a more viable option than ever to get quality competition before making the leap.

    I dont have a tennis prodigy in my house, but if I did they would be enrolling for the spring of college tennis at a minimum. Unless they were to completely dominate, they'd dabble in the pros only during the summer and fall. The safety net of a near free education with free training is too much to pass on.

    But, to each their own. College isn't an ideal environment for everyone.
     
  24. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    correct. Tomic is the only under 20 in the top 100.

    David Goffin is making his breathrough now and he is 21.
     
  25. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    I'm starting to doubt the value of college preparation in a way. I'm not sure if guys are improving the way they're supposed to. I was at the ATP qualies in ATL and I watched Pasha & Taboada play. Their backhands both needed improvement, along with their volleys. Both missed really easy sitter volleys in the match.

    Taboada especially had a noticeably weaker backhand.

    Steve Johnson, IMO, had a weak backhand in college, I havent seen him play probably since last summer, but, whenever I did, he predominantly sliced the ball from that side, which is a dead giveaway.
     
  26. brettsticker86

    brettsticker86 Rookie

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    You think because of his haircut, he's a free spirit and wasn't going to study? That sounds pretty intelligent
     
  27. The Wreck

    The Wreck Semi-Pro

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    But those guys weren't on the verge of becoming pros out of high school. They were both very good, highly regarded players, but they weren't even in a Kosaowski type situation. I also don't think that, at least Nacho, has any sort of serious professional aspirations, but that's just a guess. Can't really say that college doesn't work just based on that.

    You also have to consider nerves, level of competition, and the way they practice compared to other professionals, but still.
     
  28. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Andy Roddick had a weak backhand at 19. Still does now and still slices a lot. He stayed top 10 in the world for a decade. I don't judge a player off one aspect of their game.

    Johnson is a tough player. He is head and shoulders better than any of the UGA guys you reference. Not even comparable.
     
  29. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    Wasnt saying they had pro aspirations, but, if college is supposed to improve your game, did they forget about the backhand?? Taboada's been in school for yrs, his backhand is still a liability. They had 4 yrs to fix it, what happened??

    Wasnt comparing Johnson to either guys I mentioned, except for the fact that they have noticeably weaker backhands.

    It's been awhile since Roddick turned pro, but if I remember correctly, he didnt slice that much yrs ago. I think he started doing it more to get over the Federer hump.

    Roddick also has that huge serve, dont forget.
     
  30. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    ^^^dude, you clearly compared the UGA guys to Johnson. If you didn't want to compare them, you should have left out the first 2 paragraphs.

     
  31. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    I was stating an opinion on what I saw. Wasnt comparing directly with anyone. Im sure they arent the only college players with weaker backhands compared to their forehands.

    Now if I was comparing them to Johnson, I'd have said something like, I think Pahsa's backhand is better than SJs, or I think Taboada has more potential than SJ. That's a comparison.

    Only brought up SJ cause he's relevant right now, just got done with college, and is considered a prospect, and he's also playing the ATL tournament. And, I also think he has a noticeably weaker backhand side.
     
  32. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    Roddick also had a superstar serve and great FH, at the time, now he still has a great serve, but average FH
     
  33. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    And hence, I don't judge a player off one aspect of their game. That was my point.
     
  34. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    think about is he was still at UCLA
     
  35. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Just watched Rhyne Williams hand it to Steve Johnson. SJ needs more confidence in his BH. RW is playing very good tennis at the moment.
     
  36. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Kawasaki ready for top 50 yet ?
     
  37. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    haha, feddie sometimes your posts still annoy me, but your presence is worth it for the rare gem like this where you not only jump into a thread with an idiotic question but butcher a name in the process

    like your good old inane posts where you ask if someone is related to someone famous with a vaguely similar name

    thanks for the laugh
     
  38. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    That doesn't mean they started late.



     
  39. beernutz

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  40. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    [​IMG]

    He did 0-50 in about five seconds
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  41. Dear Djordje

    Dear Djordje Rookie

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    DK kept losing... probably would have gotten a lot more match practice by staying in college.
     
  42. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Doubt it. He's up to 237 now. His last year has been up and down. Looks like he doesn't have many points to defend until June.
     
  43. tennisplayer1993

    tennisplayer1993 Semi-Pro

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    I know a kid who got recruited by Stanford, ended up playing tennis for Columbia. He was told that he could try going pro after high school but he valued education more. He's a very tall lanky dude who was a consistent top 50 player in the country during high school and I believe a top 20 player during middle school (at one point he was 8). Very intelligent kid but he decided to get a well rounded education. Good for him.
     
  44. tennisplayer1993

    tennisplayer1993 Semi-Pro

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    Apparently Roddick was losing a lot as a junior before he got it going with his first professional coach. He was tempted to quit tennis and possibly just go to UGA (they had a powerhouse team back then) and play along his brother but I heard in the last year or so in high school, he took tennis very seriously and was the world #1 junior and didn't go to college because his coach really thought he had a chance to be a top 30 player at the time within a few years (incredible because roddick became a top 20 player by the time he was about 19 and was #1 in the world for awhile at 21).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwhITjGBbpk is a good video to see the hype about roddick around that age (17).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  45. TopDawg

    TopDawg Legend

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    Daniel Kosakowski is 1 win away from a main draw spot at the Australian Open - Qualifying bracket
     
  46. backfootgrinder

    backfootgrinder Rookie

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    did young ever go to college?
     
  47. TopDawg

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    No college for DY
     
  48. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Just wanted to update. With a 4-14 record in 2013, Kosakowski has slipped to 409 in the rankings. He made $10K last year gross.

    Again, this is not to pick on him specifically, but to give up a world class education and free ride to college, get some confidence and graduate, and still have plenty of time for tennis and a shot at a pro tennis career, is ludicrous.

    A good parallel would be Paul Goldstein, who got up to top 60 in the world AFTER graduating from Stanford, and returned to the working world and a good career.

    I'm not one to judge (ok, maybe I am) but this seemed like a poor decision for him. I wish him the best.
     
  49. tennisballer

    tennisballer Rookie

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    It's also important to note, Kosakowski was out the last six months of last year after having surgery on his right shoulder which he said began bothering him in the middle of the spring. I agree with you that he may have made a rash decision turning pro so early, but just wanted to point out the reason for his massive slip in the rankings last year.
     
  50. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    You're not telling the whole story. Kosakowski missed a significant amount of time from the tour last year with an injury which is why his ranking has slipped. He recently started competing again and is able to gain entry into a certain number of tournaments using the 'protected ranking rule' (he can use his pre-injury ranking for entry). He just beat #179 ranked and #3 seed veteran Bobby Reynolds in straight sets in the Mexico challenger to move on.

    And for many being a rookie on tour at age 22-23 doesn't work out either--so there is not always 'plenty of time' for a pro career.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014

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