Why so much interest in what the pros use?

[West Coast Ace]

aye..that's one of the reasons why i've retired from golf, in addition to expensive, time consuming, fattening, etc

I'm a retiree too Mojo - the time (and the likelihood that a 6 was as good as I'd ever get) and expense. Wish I had the years (and cash) back I was obsessed with golf.

One interesting difference: many pro golfers have changed sticks - usually with disastrous results. Bill Rogers won a few majors and switched - and never was the same (also did a lot of exhibitions); Corey Pavin started playing those funky Cleveland irons - didn't win much after. Tiger Woods was smart - he went to Nike and basically had them taken his Titleist clubs and make something very similar - with the Swoosh of course - and send me huge endorsement checks.

With all the silly lawsuits in the world today I expect to hear about someone suing over a paintjob one of these days.

 

[Lambsscroll]

This is why. We all see pros hit harder, make better, more accurate shots. And, when you have the physical size that a pro has, you start to really wonder how much is in a "pro racquet", and how much is them. Well, let me tell you, it is all in the weight and to a lesser extent, balance, of a racquet. I weighted down my wilson tour 90 to 13.5 oz and made the frame basically an even frame like Sampras had(though his was slightly heavier and had a smaller head), and, this is important, with not much technique change, basically the same strokes. Serves, about the same speed, no change. Groundstrokes=insane amount of more power. And, what i mean about power, is not power going out of bounds uncontrollable power, but penetrating, driving power from the ball gettting pummeled by a much heavier object. Volleys=night and day better, no form change.. Why?.. physics again, a heavier frame flattens that tennis ball out and keeps it from jumping off the racquet and causing it to sail. So, i can really DRIVE my volleys hard into the court. Approach shots=night and day difference.. with no grip change my short ball troubles are WAYY over since now i can drive a ball harder with the SAME STROKE, keep it from floating, and make it a winner or a winner off the next easy volley. Also, with the "new frame" I can volley better from farther back because the racquet gives soo much more velocity to the ball. And, my backhand?.. Used to be my weakness, now, with the same form, i can pummel backhands that used to land short, and they have soo much pace on them i would swear they came from my forehand or i was lefty!
Now when i hit my other 2 same frames that i haven't weighted down yet, they feel like feathers(at probably 12 to 12.5 oz), and i feel the ball float or not stick and not have nearly the same velocity on shots. Also, my forearm, and body used to be "late", and still sometimes is when warming up. But, now my forearm just automatically makes a stronger contraction to handle and swing the heavier frame.
Yet, again, everybody is right when they say you could not swing a pro frame. If you are an armswinger, and never learned to use your body to make power, don't even think about it(and, that counts for about 90 percent plus of people i see hit the tennis ball). Your arm will wear out quick and you may get injuries hitting the ball late. I adjusted my serve to get more shoulder turn, so not to use as much arm and much more body, and my consistency and power are up also.
So, bottome line, if you have good biomechanics and always wanted to hit a ball like the pros, do it. If you are an armswinger you can try it, but if your arm rips off, don't blame me. (I put the weights in the 10 and 2 positions, though i believe it was just important to get more weight in the hoop to achieve the proper total weight of the frame and also to achieve an even balanced frame vs the tour 90's head light balance)

Having said all that do you realize guys like Nadal and Roddick use rackets less than 12 ounces (strung with overgrip). So from what you said its more a matter of using your body for power which can be done with a 13.5 ounce racket or a racket less than 12 ounces to achieve Grand Slam winning effects, he he.

 

[tennis playa]

My thoughts exactly!!! people are so gullible, it seems that it all stems from being seen at the country club with latest gear, and half of these guys with the 'latest gear' can't play to save their lives. Like Agaas used to preach: Image is everything. How sad.

I'm curious as to why there is so much interest in
what the pros use. There was a time when racquet manufacturers made racquets that appealed to pros then marketed them to the general public essentially saying 'if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for you'. Then racquets were all named after pros, i.e. the Jack Kramer, the Pancho Gonzalez, the Tony Trabert, the Chris Evert, the Stan Smith, the Arthur Ashe, and on and on. That all changed when Prince came out with the oversized racquet. The pros did not immediately take to them yet the public bought them like hotcakes. Just a couple years ago the best selling Wilson racquet world-wide was a Triad when not a single pro on either the men's or women's tours used one. Is what a pro uses so important? Are people still so starstruck that they will rush out and buy a racquet for no other reason than their favorite pro uses it?

 

[tennis playa]

in answer to your Q

This is my answer to your question, I put this on earlier re: the interest in the new wilson K frame.

...guys on here go on about rackets in a way that might be deemed 'unhealthy'. They are after all bits and pieces of fibre glass, carbon and whatever else the manufacturers choose to include to send all you 'nerdy types goggle eyed. Sometimes i read the posts and i have to shake my head at the sheer banality of the entries. I play tennis and i play to a good standard, i can play with ANY frame as long as i have the right size grip and if i'm unhappy with the wieght i add a little lead, but i'd NEVER ever allow myself to be so consumed by the products the way some of you guys are, i mean a guy from the states ordering a frame from Japan??? for what to be the first on the block with a piece of brand new shiny equipment?PLEASE!!! And the tragedy of it all is so many of you guys out there are conned by paint jobs. WAKE UP PEOPLE, PLAY THE GAME, ENJOY THE GAME BUT DON'T BE CONSUMED BY THE GAME.

 

[sypl]

I think part of it is the mystique that maybe, perhaps, the pros are using something a little different that's giving them the edge (and not the hundreds of hours of training). I'd like to get my hands on a pro's racquet one day, swing it about a bit and confirm that, yes, I suck.

 

[travlerajm]

Having said all that do you realize guys like Nadal and Roddick use rackets less than 12 ounces (strung with overgrip). So from what you said its more a matter of using your body for power which can be done with a 13.5 ounce racket or a racket less than 12 ounces to achieve Grand Slam winning effects, he he.

It's not about the static weight. It's the swingweight.

Nadal and Roddick have swingweights of about 370. Roddick's swingweight is probably close to 370 too.

There is a very clear correlation between a pro's ranking and his swingweight.
Pros using the optimal swingweight have good rankings. Pros using less than optimal swingweight generally have poor rankings.
Please see my Pro Swingweights thread if you want to learn more about this.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=110239

 

[Lambsscroll]

Well sure, you need mass behind the ball I'm just saying you don't have to weight up your racket beyond 13 ounces to drive the ball nicely. You can have a higher swingweight to do this.

 

[travlerajm]

This is why. We all see pros hit harder, make better, more accurate shots. And, when you have the physical size that a pro has, you start to really wonder how much is in a "pro racquet", and how much is them. Well, let me tell you, it is all in the weight and to a lesser extent, balance, of a racquet. I weighted down my wilson tour 90 to 13.5 oz and made the frame basically an even frame like Sampras had(though his was slightly heavier and had a smaller head), and, this is important, with not much technique change, basically the same strokes. Serves, about the same speed, no change. Groundstrokes=insane amount of more power. And, what i mean about power, is not power going out of bounds uncontrollable power, but penetrating, driving power from the ball gettting pummeled by a much heavier object. Volleys=night and day better, no form change.. Why?.. physics again, a heavier frame flattens that tennis ball out and keeps it from jumping off the racquet and causing it to sail. So, i can really DRIVE my volleys hard into the court. Approach shots=night and day difference.. with no grip change my short ball troubles are WAYY over since now i can drive a ball harder with the SAME STROKE, keep it from floating, and make it a winner or a winner off the next easy volley. Also, with the "new frame" I can volley better from farther back because the racquet gives soo much more velocity to the ball. And, my backhand?.. Used to be my weakness, now, with the same form, i can pummel backhands that used to land short, and they have soo much pace on them i would swear they came from my forehand or i was lefty!
Now when i hit my other 2 same frames that i haven't weighted down yet, they feel like feathers(at probably 12 to 12.5 oz), and i feel the ball float or not stick and not have nearly the same velocity on shots. Also, my forearm, and body used to be "late", and still sometimes is when warming up. But, now my forearm just automatically makes a stronger contraction to handle and swing the heavier frame.
Yet, again, everybody is right when they say you could not swing a pro frame. If you are an armswinger, and never learned to use your body to make power, don't even think about it(and, that counts for about 90 percent plus of people i see hit the tennis ball). Your arm will wear out quick and you may get injuries hitting the ball late. I adjusted my serve to get more shoulder turn, so not to use as much arm and much more body, and my consistency and power are up also.
So, bottome line, if you have good biomechanics and always wanted to hit a ball like the pros, do it. If you are an armswinger you can try it, but if your arm rips off, don't blame me. (I put the weights in the 10 and 2 positions, though i believe it was just important to get more weight in the hoop to achieve the proper total weight of the frame and also to achieve an even balanced frame vs the tour 90's head light balance)

This is a great post!

You make a good point about the armswingers. There didn't used to be such a thing as an armswinger because you couldn't swing a wood racquet fast enough to create pace - you needed to let the racquet's weight do the work.. But the low swingweight modern recreational racquets created armswingers, as well as a whole new generation of players with poor form.

I used to be an armswinger, but now that I use a pro-style weighting (which is much heavier than a modern stock racquet, but still much lighter than a wood racquet), I've left my poor habit behind, and my strokes are 100% better, with more spin, pace, and control.

 

[VGP]

"When I was in China on the All-American Ping Pong team, I just loved playing ping-pong with my Flexolite ping pong paddle. " - Forrests Gump

Now we know that THIS IS A BIG FAT LIE!!!!!!

 

[JW10S]

After reading the responses to this thread, as well as others on this and the Racquets and Strings forums, I am able now to answer my own question. The mentality is that the top pros have not achieved what they have by the years of practice, hard work, sacrifice to hone their technique--no, it's much simpler than that. They win because of a strategically placed strip of lead tape that may weight all of a gram, it is because of the brand of string they use for their mains, it's because of the type of overgrip they use, it's because of the 'old' model racquet they use, yada, yada, yada. People actually believe that 'if I get my racquet to have the same strings and specs as Roger Federer's I'll finally be able to hit a backhand down the line!' (Please read the above with sarcasm.) I can hit a backhand down the line with any racquet simply because I have hit zillions of them--it's me, not the racquet that does it.

What it boils down to is that most people won't take responsibility for their failures. It's not their fault they lost, it's their racquet's fault. If they are hitting the ball too short going out and practicing, drilling and working on their game is not the answer--it's lead tape! That'll cure it! From reading this board one would think that lead tape has almost magical powers to cure whatever is lacking in your game. There just has to be an easier way to get good. All this practice, drilling, off-court training and match play is just too hard--I'll just buy a new racquet. Or I'll ask people who I've never met or seen me play how I should modify my racquet, what racquet I should buy, what I should string it with, how I should string it, what brand grip I should get, even what color strings I should get. It's not me who sucks it's the racquet I tell ya.

Tennis is an individual sport. Until you are able to think for yourself and have confidence in your decisions success on the court will be hard to find. Demo some racquets, pick one YOU like then push away from the keyboard and get out on the court and hit balls. Respect the work the pros have put into their games. It should be of far more interest what your favorite player's practice routine is than what racquet or strings they use. There are no short cuts to getting good. The racquet that a pro uses is not the reason he or she is where they are now. The reason that racquet companies are continually coming out with new products should be very evident to everyone from reading these boards.

When tennis coach Vic Braden was asked by someone what racquet they should use he answered: 'It doesn't matter. They are all engineered far beyond your ability to use them.'

 

[federermcenroeagassi]

well i like finding out just to establish patterns between what pro's use and then trying to figure out WHY that is.

for example, lots of pro's use smaller grip sizes than a person their height and size normally would (mostly 1/4 and 3/8 ), and maybe that's because they can hold it all the way around and brush up on the ball better to create better topspin.

 

[mctennis]

A lotta wanna be's out there. Why do people like to wear baseball, football, hockey or basketball jerseys with a players name on them. Same thing. I don't understand it either actually.

 

[Lambsscroll]

After reading the responses to this thread, as well as others on this and the Racquets and Strings forums, I am able now to answer my own question. The mentality is that the top pros have not achieved what they have by the years of practice, hard work, sacrifice to hone their technique--no, it's much simpler than that. They win because of a strategically placed strip of lead tape that may weight all of a gram, it is because of the brand of string they use for their mains, it's because of the type of overgrip they use, it's because of the 'old' model racquet they use, yada, yada, yada. People actually believe that 'if I get my racquet to have the same strings and specs as Roger Federer's I'll finally be able to hit a backhand down the line!' (Please read the above with sarcasm.) I can hit a backhand down the line with any racquet simply because I have hit zillions of them--it's me, not the racquet that does it.

What it boils down to is that most people won't take responsibility for their failures. It's not their fault they lost, it's their racquet's fault. If they are hitting the ball too short going out and practicing, drilling and working on their game is not the answer--it's lead tape! That'll cure it! From reading this board one would think that lead tape has almost magical powers to cure whatever is lacking in your game. There just has to be an easier way to get good. All this practice, drilling, off-court training and match play is just too hard--I'll just buy a new racquet. Or I'll ask people who I've never met or seen me play how I should modify my racquet, what racquet I should buy, what I should string it with, how I should string it, what brand grip I should get, even what color strings I should get. It's not me who sucks it's the racquet I tell ya.

Tennis is an individual sport. Until you are able to think for yourself and have confidence in your decisions success on the court will be hard to find. Demo some racquets, pick one YOU like then push away from the keyboard and get out on the court and hit balls. Respect the work the pros have put into their games. It should be of far more interest what your favorite player's practice routine is than what racquet or strings they use. There are no short cuts to getting good. The racquet that a pro uses is not the reason he or she is where they are now. The reason that racquet companies are continually coming out with new products should be very evident to everyone from reading these boards.

When tennis coach Vic Braden was asked by someone what racquet they should use he answered: 'It doesn't matter. They are all engineered far beyond your ability to use them.'

There is a reason why 60 to 80 percent of pros use poly. The reason why doesn't matter but does show that poly is significant enough for pro players to use it. This mass exodus from GUT to poly needs looking into and might even benefit the club player. Gathering and experimenting with new info is always a good thing.

 

[tennis playa]

All paintjobs prove to me is that there are two technologies: 1) for the pros, who basically use no gimmicky technology, no BS frames, and paint them, and 2) BS technology frames for the consumer. Racquet technology is like fashion, if it's so good why do they keep changing it each year?

This is exactly what I've been trying to get across the folks on here, pro's have no interest what so ever in the so called latest technology, they're concerned with strings, grip size/shape and weight. All the other stuff has no meaning for the pro's and is strictly for consumers

 

[MacBorg18]

There is a reason why 60 to 80 percent of pros use poly. The reason why doesn't matter but does show that poly is significant enough for pro players to use it. This mass exodus from GUT to poly needs looking into and might even benefit the club player. Gathering and experimenting with new info is always a good thing.

I tried ALU Big Banger briefly to see what the buzz is all about on the Tour. I hated it. Little to no feel. Natural gut works best for my style of play (and I don't hybridize mains and crosses).

Regarding this thread, I dare say that most if not all of us are some mix of player and consumer. The marketing strategy used by racquet manufacturers appeals to the consumer side of us--just as we buy other products endorsed by so and so who's famous. But depending how much of a player you are versus a consumer, you'll figure out that while it may be interesting to learn about what the pros use, you'll stick with what works best for you.

I agree that the whole paintjob story is a legal landmine waiting to explode. If you're going to sell something to the public based on the fact that so and so uses that product, then it had better be the case that so and so actually uses that product. Otherwise, it's called false advertising.

 

[s_andrean]

Having worked in a pro tennis shop for the good part of 2 years, i've learnt that it depends on the person.

Guys that actaully post regularly on this board generally know about racquets, so are not starstruck 'he uses this so it must be good...etc'

Its when the kids come into the shop and say 'is this the nadal racquet' and 'is this the federer racquet' etc, its just been well marketed to them. That especially goes for clothes + other apparel

They all want to appear like and, in their minds, play like the archetypes in tennis, who are the top players in the world. That is why the average joe would have so much interest.