Why the tennis still needs Roger Federer

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Marius_Hancu, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    To all of those saying that Federer should retire in order not to diminish his heritage:

    Your historical perspective is nil. Your view is limited.

    Think about Rod Laver, who may still be the GOAT ("Greatest Of All Time") based purely on his double calendar GS ("Grand Slam").

    He achieved those in 1962 and 1969.

    He still remained active until his late thirties, until the late 1970s.

    Certainly he knew he would not equal his "prime" 1969, that his results to lesser opponents would be going to his disadvantage. He was certainly more intelligent, in tennis terms, than any of his doubters, to realize that.

    E.g. his career head-to-head is 1-4 against Ilie Nastase, whose prime was 1972-1973 (winning the USO and the RG), who was 8 years his junior.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=L058&oId=N008

    He was 39 when he was beaten last by Nastase.

    His series with Stan Smith (also 8 years his junior), whose prime was 1972, is tied at 6-6 only because Laver continued to play into his thirties:

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=L058&oId=S060

    thus losing the last five of them.

    Laver competed in such a way and his style of play was so unique that he made any of those duels worth watching, even when the final result was not to be in his favor because of his having lost a step to age, even though his competitors might have caught up to him in terms of speed, power or even mental edge at that very time.

    Now, did he subsequently fare worse than Borg, who retired immediately he started to seriously lose, in terms of fame, because of staying in the game long past his prime?

    No, those in the know know he didn't.

    On the contrary, he's still at the top when GOAT discussions are around, for 50 years now, in the mix with Sampras and Federer.

    Like Federer today, Laver in his thirties did a great service to the tennis community by continuing to present a great style of play, even if the results weren't favorable to him.

    Thanks God for Federer. Otherwise it would be only the ugly, workmanlike, academies-sponsored game, the ugly game created by Borg-Agassi, against which the sparkling style of Nastase-McEnroe-Sampras-Federer lineage will be always pitted.

    New generations of players need Federer just for the visual gratification and showcasing of a great style of play (yes: S-Volleying, even though less than Sampras; yes: 1HBH; yes: smaller-head raquets), just as yesteryear's generations needed Laver to stay around.

    We need models and Federer is the best model against the uniformity that traps the current game. He's the model of great physical and mental talent, of great and easy shotmaking, against the great plodding.

    We need him because he is the star that was and still is both extremely spectacular and light-moving and deadly efficient while at it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
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  2. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    This is correct.
     
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  3. dirtballer

    dirtballer Professional

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    Roger is a good ambassador for the game. He takes time for interviews in several languages, he takes time for the fans, and he's well spoken. Remember when Rios and Hewitt would barely speak to the media? Actually, I think that all the top players now do a good job with the media and the fans.
     
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  4. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Life outside tennis is far more financially lucrative now than then, so there isn't quite the financial or psychological incentive to stay and prove oneself in the game. Indeed, playing past ones peak is probably frowned upon as tarnishing a legend, but I tend to agree this isn't so (or shouldn't be so).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
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  5. Tennis sensation

    Tennis sensation Hall of Fame

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    Tennis needs Federer so that Fedace can continue with his predictions. :)
     
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  6. cucio

    cucio Legend

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    This thread is worthless without a sound track. Get the following link playing and then come back and re-read the OP in a loud a clear voice, as if it were a speech in front of a crowd:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH87jt41xyA
     
    #6
  7. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    federer still makes a lot of money in tennis. outside tennis he wouldn't make much money. doesn't need it though, he already has enough of that:D.

    I think fed is still good for tennis. he is still one of the best and aesthetically great to watch. every good player helps tennis.

    I can't understand how anyone would want a top5 player to retire. the more top players there are, the better.

    If he was no.20 I would say yes he should retire. but as long as he is in the top4 and reaches GS semifinals and finals he is a plus for tennis.

    I like fed the least from the top3 but certainly anyone who says he is bad for tennis is an idiot.
     
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  8. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    #8
  9. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Agree with the statement. Let the player decide, when he thinks to be ready for retirement. An artist has much more time to explore his talent, than an athlete, who has only say 10 peak years. Its not easy to get a life after tennis, as we see in the cases of Boris Becker or Bjorn Borg, who fell into a deep hole after quitting tennis. Even now, Becker doesn't seem completely at ease with himself. And Sampras may today regret, that he didn't play another Wimbledon or two.
    In the 70s older pro players stayed in tennis, because for the first time the financial rewards were really big during the tennis boom years.
    Besides: The head to head stats on the ATP side are not complete: I have at least one Laver-Nastase match more at Wembley semifinal 1970, with Laver winning in two clear sets. There were in any case more matches, also between Laver and Smith, including some Hilton Head events and Etna World Cups.
     
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  10. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    Great OP.
    However, in the meantime the courts and balls are encouraging a grinding style of play more and more.
     
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  11. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    I've wiped Federer completely from my memory. Is he the ugly Swiss guy with the crap backhand?
     
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  12. jaap deboeck

    jaap deboeck Rookie

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    The truly sad aspect of Federer's twilight is that this will likely signal the last time we'll see the one-handed backhand atop the ATP rankings. (Even more assured in the WTA with the retirements of Madmoiselles Henin et Mauresmo.)

    Yes, Gasquet and Almagro and Wawrinka and Haas and Blake et. al. have/had gorgeous one-handers, but these are not top 5 calibre players otherwise.

    I always enjoy watching the stroke even as used only for slicing by many two-hand bashers like Roddick. A beautiful part of the game now largely destined for nostalgia.
     
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  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Federer was not even the greatest in his own era (8-15 against Nadal) then how can he be the GOAT.

    Notice how I used the past tense.

    The end is near.
     
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  14. tenis1

    tenis1 Banned

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    I agree that he should continue to play and he can be competitive (not on the very top though) for several more years, but I disagree that tennis needs him to do that. Ne needs too do that for himself if he still enjoys it and likes to compete, but the game will be just fine with or without him.
     
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  15. Winner_DownTheLine

    Winner_DownTheLine Semi-Pro

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    I agree with this post. I hate to see Fed retire, if he does I will cancel Tennis Channel coz I don't like watching wimpy two-handed boring tennis by nadal, djoko or murray.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
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  16. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Great OP!

    As for the haters....Federer has 16 slams, how many do you have?
     
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  17. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    fixed it for ya
     
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  18. Love all

    Love all Semi-Pro

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    Bcoz he plays the most exquisite shots and I started follwing tennis after seeing his play.
     
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  19. Jchurch

    Jchurch Guest

    How many real slams does Nadal have? That's right! ZERO! Possibly akin to another number you posses that reflects your intellect?
     
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  20. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    real slams?

    you mean the number of RG, AO, and WC he won against Fed?

    Seriously, I may dislike Nadal but all these *******s are turning me away...
     
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  21. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Great post.

    He's only dropped down to #3 for a few weeks and people are already calling for his retirement.
     
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  22. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Pretty much my sentiments. If he wants to play, let him play. It doesn't change tennis for me in any respect.
     
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  23. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Actually, Nadal has won 3 Slams beating Fed.

    While Fed won the FO only because Nadal was injured.

    That, combined with the Olympics Gold, overall H2H, and far better backhand, places Nadal on a whole different level above Fed.
     
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  24. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    I'd love to see him do a Jimmy Connors and keep going until he's 39, just so I can enjoy watching him for another ten years.

    Now, I'm not sure I can even see him continuing as long as Agassi did, but as long as he's around I will root for him wherever he goes and whatever he wins, Grand Slam, 250 or exhibition.

    The day he retires there will be a massive hole left in the tennis world. Christ, even last years Wimbledon final felt wrong without him.
     
    #24
  25. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I will not miss the egomaniac 1 bit.
     
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  26. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    You forgot to add "NOT!" at the end
     
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  27. Winner_DownTheLine

    Winner_DownTheLine Semi-Pro

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    Cincy is the real slam!
     
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  28. Winner_DownTheLine

    Winner_DownTheLine Semi-Pro

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    Well said, I was a big Sampras fan and stopped watching tennis after he retired until I saw Fed win the US open in 04 and started following ATP again. I doubt there will ever be a player like Fed play on the ATP ever again.
     
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  29. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    For me pro tennis will never be the same without Federer.
     
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  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    After his recent loss, he went on and on about how thw wind affected him, how he still had a great week on clay, etc. Only the author of the article mentioned that "while crediting him for attacking play ..."

    Fed still does not want to give credit to others.
     
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  31. niff

    niff Legend

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    Er no, he credited Jürgen's aggressiveness directly in his press conference many times.
     
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  32. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Which means that his wins were in a weak era where players were not aggressive like Nadal or Djokovic.
     
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  33. niff

    niff Legend

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    Where do you come up with this ****, m'dear <3
     
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  34. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    Agreed 100%
     
    #34
  35. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    you must have missed the joke about cincy being the real slam (a claim made by none other than our own TW court jester ..)
     
    #35
  36. eidolonshinobi

    eidolonshinobi Professional

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    I'm not a ******* or whatever, but I love watching the man play.

    So damn effortless. At least before this year.
     
    #36
  37. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Meltzers comment about Federer in his interview after beating Fed is interesting


    Are the players are losing a little bit of the respect against Federer?
    JURGEN MELZER: I think you always have to respect Roger. This would be lack of respect from the players if you don't respect Roger. He's a great tennis player, what he has achieved in the past... He has played tennis on such a high level that for him being 3 in the world is a downgrade, which if you think about it, it's kind of stupid.
    For me, he's the greatest player that has ever played that game. As I said, for him to lose matches, it's every time a tragic. There is a lot of players out there that would love to be in his shirt going out of that locker room and being on the court.
     
    #37
  38. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    Yea but Fed's got 4 Cincy's.

    That's GOAT level right there.
     
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  39. billnepill

    billnepill Hall of Fame

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    No cincy, no goat. Sorry.

    Haven't you heard that Cincy is the Real Slam?
     
    #39
  40. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    awesome op
     
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  41. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    I'll tell you why nobody ever asked for Laver to retire. That's because nobody gave a crap about that silly H2H stat which didn't even exist (officially) at that time. It's not a stat the ATP kept. It was only much later, mostly because of pressure from the media (the ones who need stuff to talk about before matches) that the ATP started keeping the H2H stats, said stats having no bearing whatsoever on results, rankings or anything else.

    So for the last frigging time, H2H IS A MEANINGLESS STAT. Tennis is not boxing...

    So I don't care if Federer plays until he's 70, his future results will have no impact whatsoever on his accomplishments.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2011
    #41
  42. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Head to Head always mattered, what are you talking about?
     
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  43. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Federer can stop playing now , I am content. I have seen the most graceful, intelligent, natural brand of tennis ever.
     
    #43
  44. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Remember the guy that if you added the total number of GS singles titles of all the other active ATP players it would only equal his? Yeah, that one.
     
    #44
  45. xRain

    xRain Guest

    Because calling someone the "GOAT" is down to one's own opinion and Federer can still be regarded as the GOAT to many people regardless of a head to head record.

    That is your own opinion, not something that everyone else should agree with.
    Federer has also achieved things that Nadal hasn't.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2011
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  46. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    I agree we need Federer. Federer vs Nadal is still the HOTTEST selling ticket in the world. Even in the states, this finals will draw good ratings on TV. Their contrast in styles is what gets people excited.
    Nadal vs Djokovic isn't quite the same, at least not yet.
     
    #46
  47. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    how can head to head be meaningless in a one-on-one sport, like boxing and tennis? tennis is 100% about match ups and the h2h tellst that story every time, not just Nadal vs Fed. I love Andy Roddick but his game and his prime matched up awful with Roger, just check out the h2h. Roger also struggles against quick counter punchers, check out his h2h with Gilles Simon.
    h2h is one of, if not THE, most important stats in tennis
     
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  48. Jchurch

    Jchurch Guest

    That was a dig at SUREHS. You might have heard of his now famous "Cincinnati the real slam" thread.
     
    #48
  49. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    So does that mean Simon is better than Federer and Davydenko is better than Nadal? Based on what you just said above that the H2H is the most important stat, that would be true, correct? I am sorry, but that makes no sense.

    You have to look at the totality of many things to figure out who the best player is. H2H is just one stat in a mountain of stats. To simplify the career of a tennis player based on the H2H only or as the most important thing is ridiculous when there are so many other records and achievements that need to be looked at.
     
    #49
  50. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Player A beats player B all the time. Player C beats player A all the time. Player B beats player C all the time. Who is the better player? That’s why H2H is meaningless.
     
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