Will Nadal ever win the year end Championship on the fast indoor hardcourt surface?

F

FedererGlides

Banned
This is a tournament that Federer has won 6 times, Sampras and Lendl have won 5 times. Borg, Agassi, Becker, Mcenroe, Connors, Edberg and Djokovic have also won this great tournament since it started in 1970. Laver didn't win it but he was way past his prime when the tournament started so he has an excuse.

The question mark beside Sampras is no French Open title. You could also level this question mark against other great players that failed to win an important title on a certain surface.

Well the question mark right now against Nadal is no year end title. Not only because it is very important title that lots of great players have, but mainly because it is the most important title on the fast indoor hard court surface.

Nadal has won the most important grass court title(Wimbledon), the most important claycourt title(French Open), the most important outdoor hardcourt titles(Australian Open and US Open). But he has not won the most important fast indoor hardcourt title - The year end championship. Will he ever win this?
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
FedererGlides said:
This is a tournament that Federer has won 6 times, Sampras and Lendl have won 5 times. Borg, Agassi, Becker, Mcenroe, Connors, Edberg and Djokovic have also won this great tournament since it started in 1970. Laver didn't win it but he was way past his prime when the tournament started so he has an excuse.

The question mark beside Sampras is no French Open title. You could also level this question mark against other great players that failed to win an important title on a certain surface.

Well the question mark right now against Nadal is no year end title. Not only because it is very important title that lots of great players have, but mainly because it is the most important title on the fast indoor hard court surface.

Nadal has won the most important grass court title(Wimbledon), the most important claycourt title(French Open), the most important outdoor hardcourt titles(Australian Open and US Open). But he has not won the most important fast indoor hardcourt title - The year end championship. Will he ever win this?
Click to expand...

The WTF is not fast by any stretch of the imagination.

Remember, Nadal did make 2 SF and one final there so how fast can it truly be?
 
Last edited:
G

Gizo

Hall of Fame
I hope not, not because I dislike Nadal as I have no problem with him at all.

It's just that I would like Agassi to remain the only player to have won all of the modern day 'super seven' events in tennis, the 4 majors, the YEC, the Olympics and the Davis Cup.

It's nice to see as many different players having impressive and unique achievements to their names as possible, rather than Federer and Nadal breaking or tying every modern day record/milestone in sight.
 
F

FedererGlides

Banned
Paul Murphy said:
I sincerely hope not.
Click to expand...

If he does not achieve this, then he can never be called the greatest no matter how many slams he does go on to win if he comes back from injury which I doubt.

To be honest, I would even question his status on the basis of him relying too much on the French Open to build up his slam total. He has won 7 of his slams on the French, and only 4 slams away from the French Open, less than Djokovic who has won 5 away from the French open.

He needs to start winning more slams on other surfaces and needs to win a year end title on the fast indoor harcourt if he ever wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Federer.
 
P

Paul Murphy

Hall of Fame
FedererGlides said:
If he does not achieve this, then he can never be called the greatest no matter how many slams he does go on to win if he comes back from injury which I doubt.

To be honest, I would even question his status on the basis of him relying too much on the French Open to build up his slam total. He has won 7 of his slams on the French, and only 4 slams away from the French Open, less than Djokovic who has won 5 away from the French open.

He needs to start winning more slams on other surfaces and needs to win a year end title on the fast indoor harcourt if he ever wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Federer.
Click to expand...

As I've said elsewhere here I like Rafa and wish he was fit and well - it's his rabid supporters who I find to be laughable.
I prefer tennis on surfaces other than clay so I am a little biased in that regard but I do agree that his record would read better had he not won so many majors on the one surface.
 
P

Paul Murphy

Hall of Fame
London is slow. No doubt about it, which is a shame.
What was also regrettable was when Paris was slowed to pull it into line with London.
It should have been the other way around.
 
P

Prisoner of Birth

Banned
Considering his win ratio in WTFs is less than 0.5 and that his prime is coming to an end, I don't think he'll win one. But we shouldn't read too much into it. He was unfortunate to have been from the same half-era as the greatest indoors player in Roger Federer, so that's as good an excuse as any. For the same reason, even if Federer hadn't won a French Open title, it wouldn't take away from his abilities. He'd just have been unfortunate to not have managed a win there before Nadal took ownership. In any other era, Nadal might've won one or more WTFs and Federer would have more than a few French Opens.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
FedererGlides said:
If he does not achieve this, then he can never be called the greatest no matter how many slams he does go on to win if he comes back from injury which I doubt.

To be honest, I would even question his status on the basis of him relying too much on the French Open to build up his slam total. He has won 7 of his slams on the French, and only 4 slams away from the French Open, less than Djokovic who has won 5 away from the French open.

He needs to start winning more slams on other surfaces and needs to win a year end title on the fast indoor harcourt if he ever wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Federer.
Click to expand...

You write this like Djoko has won RG.

"Away from the French Open". LOL.

Oh wait, I forgot, clay doesn't count.

By your reasoning, how many slams has Djoko won away from his best slam(slow HC of AO)? Just 2(1 WB, 1 USO). At least Nadal won 4 away from his best slam(clay of RG).
 
F

FedererGlides

Banned
namelessone said:
Nadal got bageled by Fed on clay and grass as well. Are these surfaces very fast?
Click to expand...

The most important point is that it is the most important indoor hardcourt title and Nadal has not won it and probably never will. But I do believe it is also fast hence the fact that Federer completely owns Nadal on this surface.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
FedererGlides said:
The most important point is that it is the most important indoor hardcourt title and Nadal has not won it and probably never will. But I do believe it is also fast hence the fact that Federer completely owns Nadal on this surface.
Click to expand...

The courts in London are low bouncing but not very fast, many players have said the very same thing. Many people here were complaining about the slowness of the court in the past 2 years or so.

The courts were faster when TMC was held in Shanghai.
 
Jackuar

Jackuar

Hall of Fame
Given his current health, poor scheduling, non-affinity to hard courts, I'd say he never will....

But more than that, my question is, why didn't he all these years? What happened in the other years when Federer didn't win it? It was some two other people who met in the final and not Nadal... Either he didn't even make it past the RR or lost in semi....

What happened when Nadal didn't win the FO? Fed won it....
What happened when Fed didn't win the WTF? Nadal didn't even make it to the finals...

2010 could have been a great chance when his hard court game was well sorted out and he was in great form - and that is still not enough to stop Fed. I'm not able to see him do it again and also win it....
 
Jackuar

Jackuar

Hall of Fame
namelessone said:
The courts in London are low bouncing but not very fast, many players have said the very same thing. Many people here were complaining about the slowness of the court in the past 2 years or so.

The courts were faster when TMC was held in Shanghai.
Click to expand...

Any idea how long will London host the show before another city gets the chance?
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
IF Nadal comes back to form, he may well win the WTF, he'll be hungrier than Roger for it. Roger will probably want to rack up some more slams, or perhaps one or two tournaments he hasn't won - MC ??
 
P

Prisoner of Birth

Banned
Jackuar said:
Given his current health, poor scheduling, non-affinity to hard courts, I'd say he never will....

But more than that, my question is, why didn't he all these years? What happened in the other years when Federer didn't win it? It was some two other people who met in the final and not Nadal... Either he didn't even make it past the RR or lost in semi....

What happened when Nadal didn't win the FO? Fed won it....
What happened when Fed didn't win the WTF? Nadal didn't even make it to the finals...

2010 could have been a great chance when his hard court game was well sorted out and he was in great form - and that is still not enough to stop Fed. I'm not able to see him do it again and also win it....
Click to expand...

That's true. Goes to show how much more consistent Federer is. The one big reason why I put him above Nadal, and everyone else, on the GOAT list. Nadal does have a really poor win-ratio in WTFs.
 
SLD76

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
FedererGlides said:
This is a tournament that Federer has won 6 times, Sampras and Lendl have won 5 times. Borg, Agassi, Becker, Mcenroe, Connors, Edberg and Djokovic have also won this great tournament since it started in 1970. Laver didn't win it but he was way past his prime when the tournament started so he has an excuse.

The question mark beside Sampras is no French Open title. You could also level this question mark against other great players that failed to win an important title on a certain surface.

Well the question mark right now against Nadal is no year end title. Not only because it is very important title that lots of great players have, but mainly because it is the most important title on the fast indoor hard court surface.

Nadal has won the most important grass court title(Wimbledon), the most important claycourt title(French Open), the most important outdoor hardcourt titles(Australian Open and US Open). But he has not won the most important fast indoor hardcourt title - The year end championship. Will he ever win this?
Click to expand...

nope

10obviousanswers
 
Z

zcarzach

Semi-Pro
No, he won't. If it changes venues to a more fitting surface, he might have a shot, assuming he comes back strong from his injury problems.
 
Apun94

Apun94

Hall of Fame
namelessone said:
The WTF is not fast by any stretch of the imagination.

Remember, Nadal did make 2 SF and one final there so how fast can it truly be?
Click to expand...

Just because Nadal made SFs and F qualifies for the surface to be slow.
This is a new low for ****s, congratulations
 
RF20Lennon

RF20Lennon

Legend
He might win in a year when feds retired and nole and murray are just playing BAD but other than that dont see him winning. Its not that he's bad on that surface its just that the weapons he has dont work there. The topspin doesnt kick up high so it just enters most players hitting zone and they just thward the ball and play aggressive. Nadal's game is solely based on drawing UE's from opponents and that doesnt work on this surface.
 
RF20Lennon

RF20Lennon

Legend
Apun94 said:
Just because Nadal made SFs and F qualifies for the surface to be slow.
This is a new low for ****s, congratulations
Click to expand...

The dude is right though the WTF is low bouncing and a slow court. Its faster than melbourne but its still pretty slow for an indoor court
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Besides Federer there's too many players that can beat him...Nole, Murray, Tsonga, Del Potro, Berdych. Even a weaker player like Ferrer and Verdasco managed to beat him.
 
M

Magnetite

Professional
You can't rule Nadal out, until he retires or drops far in the rankings.

He's a great champion, that has learned to win on almost every surface.

I wouldn't put my money on him this year, but you never know.
 
TheFifthSet

TheFifthSet

Legend
namelessone said:
The WTF is not fast by any stretch of the imagination.

Remember, Nadal did make 2 SF and one final there so how fast can it truly be?
Click to expand...

What's up with this preemptive sardonicism? I mean it's one thing to hijack a trolling thread, but this wasn't that, so why try to start a flame war?
 
Warmaster

Warmaster

Hall of Fame
If he recovers in time, he might have a shot at it this year. As we all know, being well rested is why Federer won last year!
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
TheFifthSet said:
true, but namelessone normally doesn't troll.
Click to expand...

I wasn't a troll attempt, WTF is slow.

The main thing that irks Nadal there is the low bounce where his topspin is denied.

Nadal was denied a title here and another 2 finals by Fed but he is a guy that thrives most of the time on slow and medium paced courts(doesn't mean he can't win on fast, just that it is rare) so if he made 2 SF and one final there, how fast can the court actually be?
 
Last edited:
BauerAlmeida

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
Gizo said:
I hope not, not because I dislike Nadal as I have no problem with him at all.

It's just that I would like Agassi to remain the only player to have won all of the modern day 'super seven' events in tennis, the 4 majors, the YEC, the Olympics and the Davis Cup.

It's nice to see as many different players having impressive and unique achievements to their names as possible, rather than Federer and Nadal breaking or tying every modern day record/milestone in sight.
Click to expand...

This.

10chars
 
Apun94

Apun94

Hall of Fame
RF20Lennon said:
The dude is right though the WTF is low bouncing and a slow court. Its faster than melbourne but its still pretty slow for an indoor court
Click to expand...

It's still the fastest surface on tour, and it's the same reason Fed has a winning record against Nadal
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
Apun94 said:
It's still the fastest surface on tour, and it's the same reason Fed has a winning record against Nadal
Click to expand...

Wrong. Cincy probably takes that title.

The reason why Fed has such a good record over Nadal there is because Nadal can't get a big bounce off his balls there and Fed's BH is way more comfortable in this situation. With Rafa's only big advantage being removed(the ability to restrain Fed's game through high bouncing balls), Fed is able to swing more freely. He rarely tensed up against Rafa in all their WTF clashes.
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
WTF is not fast, but the bounces are good so Fed doesn't shank as much and he has time to be aggressive and take control of points. Nadal can only win when he has assistance from wind, sun or bad bounces from terribad surfaces like Clay. When conditions are ideal he has no shot against a good aggressive player like Fed because his skill level isn't anywhere near enough to compete with such genius
 
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