Will "seniors" with 2HBHs quit tennis?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by widmerpool, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,398
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    heycal,
    the point with the lesbians i understood, but who are the gay men?:D
    but there seems to be a lesbian who sports a 2hbh too.
     
    #51
  2. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Federer, Gasgay, and apparently, as I'm just finding out from this thread now, Becker.:)
     
    #52
  3. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    Thanks for coming out and letting us know from your personal experience that Nadal and Safin are "extremely virile men". :lol: LOL ;)
     
    #53
  4. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,398
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    heycal,
    i don't know about gasgay, but i'm astonished to find out mirka is a man.

    the gorilla,
    since becker is still alive and kicking do you suggest he WAS gay in his active period and turned hetero after he retired?:p
     
    #54
  5. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Those of us who are manly enough to handle using a two-handed backhand don't have hang-ups about acknowledging that there are other virile men among us. But apparently you are at peace with your own sexuality as well, since you've come out as a loud and proud 1 hander. I applaud you.

    Guess you haven't some of those Mirka-related threads around here...
     
    #55
  6. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,398
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    heycal,
    i read some of those threads and i remember her having been called fat, chunky and whatever related to weight issues, but does that make her a man?:D
    but, what does this have to do with seniors using 2hbh? would i not be allowed to play my trusted 2hbh if i don't divorce and renegate my child?:D
     
    #56
  7. widmerpool

    widmerpool Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Atlanta
    fgs,

    this is my point. it sounds like you grew up when it was at least 50-50.

    30 yrs later, you are the minority.

    so what happened? one of the following...

    A) people with two-handers aren't very good on average and so don't play in your 40+ tourneys

    B) two-handers switched to one-hand

    C) two-handers quit competitive tennis.
     
    #57
  8. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Or D) Most guys who learned to play tennis 30 years ago are still using the 1 hbh they learned with.

    I don't know where you got the 50-50 figure from his post. The 1 hbh was the standard for men back then; it wasn't 50-50.
     
    #58
  9. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,398
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    widmerpool,
    what happened:
    the 45+ guys have learned 1hbh and the few who use 2hbh have picked the game up late and have been taught 2hbh. so it's rather natural that in this age group, 45 and up, the 2hbh would be rather the exception (not even minorty).
    the guys i have grown up with have stayed with the 1hbh (i said that i initially learned 1handed and switched about 6 years later to twohanded!), so it would be natural to still have a minority in the 35-45 age group. the minority is around some 20%. while others had borg and connors, we here had nastase in the 70's, so 2hbh was minority or girlie.
    the young guns (from 16 up to 30) i play in the open tournaments have gone in the vast majority to 2hbh (90%). what they will do when they get to 45-50 i can't tell. as for me, i have currently no intention to switch to a 1hbh in competition, mostly because of the additional stability i get on service returns. the guys i'm playing, even in the +40 group, know how to hit a fast ball (the vast majority being former players like myself), so i'd really run into trouble.
    from the guys i've grown up with, quite a few have given up on tennis because of the walk of life they have pursued (i myself have been away for 19 years). i simply guess that if they were to pick up tennis again, they'd go back to the technique they used in their "active" years, so the conclusion that the 2hbhanders have quit competitive tennis is not valid or does apply to the same extent to the onehanders. from the ones i know and meet frequently in tournaments, i don't know of any to have switched either way.
     
    #59
  10. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,519
    TE more than likely with a one hander-case closed..


    In all my years i never heard of a two hander being girly lol. This must be old jokes from old farts who grew up playing in the 70's, EARLY 70's :) Heck playing tennis in general is considered girly to many.
     
    #60
  11. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    Not true. 30 years ago when I was learning to play tennis, all the kids were copying Borg and Connors and hitting 2HBH's. One of the top players in my high school used a 2HBH.

    But now, I've noticed the same thing as widmerpool has. NONE of the people my age use a 2HBH anymore. So from at least half (but probably more) kids my age using 2HBH's to today in which all those kids are now the same age as me but none of them use 2HBH's anymore. So what happened? The logical conclusion is that either they all quit playing tennis or that they all switched to 1HBH's.
     
    #61
  12. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Poppycock. I refuse to accept that your purported experiences and memories in this area have any bearing on what was going on in the tennis community at large. You seem to be the only one disputing that the vast majority of men who learned to play tennis 30 years ago played with a 1 hbh, as did the vast majority of male pros at that time.
     
    #62
  13. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    Not just me but also widmerpool, and I'm sure many others. Did you learn to play tennis in the mid-70's? Were you there? If not, how would you know what all the kids were using? Believe me, ALL the kids wanted to play like Borg and Connors because they were winning all the majors and they were the #1 and #2 players in the world. Just like today all the kids want to play like Federer, Nadal, and Roddick. The difference is that Federer has a 1HBH, whereas, BOTH Borg and Connors had 2HBH's!
     
    #63
  14. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Yeah, I was there -- and first learned to use a 2 hbh ala Connors! But I was a lefty who batted righty in baseball, a hotheaded rebel, and I was not the norm. Plus I soon switched over to the McEnroe-Laver-Nastase-Vilas-Ashe-blah-blah-like one hander that most of the other guys were using.

    Are you seriously sugggesting to us that you think just as many kids -- maybe even more than half -- used a 2 hbh in the 1970's? Is that what you're trying to peddle here?? (As for Widerpool, I got the impression he was a bit of a kinder who wasn't even alive back then, though I could be wrong about that particular issue...)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
    #64
  15. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    This discussion is degenerating guys... Who really cares who did/does play a one hander or a two hander now or ever?

    As for this girly nonsense, c'mon, that's really puerile. Oh wait, some of you are.. Oh well...
     
    #65
  16. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    Yes. Half of my high school team used 2HBH's. My regular hitting partner had a 2HBH. This was all in the late-70's. With Borg and Connors dominating the tour at the time, I'm sure this was not unusual at most high schools.
     
    #66
  17. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Yes, Virginia, there is a bit of slide going on here. But I think we can revive it. We just need to (re-)establish that the 1 hbh was a much more popular stroke among males in the 1970's than it is now and that's why old geezers of today favor it, and that those guys currently using two handers will continue to do so without ill-effect when they get older. Once we get all that nailed down we can move on...:p
     
    #67
  18. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Trouble is, heycal, that simply isn't true. Old geezers, as you so charmingly put it, will probably but not definitely continue to play what they are used to playing, be that one handed or two handed.

    By the way, those same "old geezers", provided they've stayed reasonably fit, still play a pretty decent game. :)

    P.S. I don't know anyone from "the old days" who has/had TE using the old heavy wooden racquets.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
    #68
  19. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Can you round up of some super 8 film footage and/or sworn depositions from these goofy clowns you claimed to have played with?:p I'm afraid we're going to need some proof that you went to a school that produced an unusual 2 hbh cluster. I saw something about such things occuring on the Discovery Channel once...
     
    #69
  20. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    In other words, you agree that ancient codgers likely WILL continue using what they've been using all their lives. How is that really any different from what I'm saying? What "simply isn't true" about my claim? Sure, some of these decrepit old 1 hbh types may switch to 2 hbh once the TE kicks in, and maybe the rare senile and drooling two handed player will switch to a 1 hbh after losing an arm to diabetes, but basically, these very very old dogs won't be learning new tricks for the most part.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
    #70
  21. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    OK, maybe I misunderstood you. But how about you quit with the "old codger", "decrepit", "senile and drooling" language - anyone who's over 60 and is still playing tennis won't be decrepit, senile or drooling. If I were a sensitive person (which thankfully I'm not), I might be offended - after all, I AM an old codger (or perhaps I should say, "codgeress").
     
    #71
  22. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Sorry, I calls 'em as I sees 'em, Grandma Moses.;)

    Hey, at 44, I consider myself an old codger on these boards...
     
    #72
  23. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    If you dont' believe that all the kids in the mid-70's tried to copy Borg and Connors then you must also not believe that all the kids today try to copy Federer, Nadal, and Roddick. :roll:
     
    #73
  24. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Good point, er BreakPoint. :)
     
    #74
  25. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Those kids trying today trying to copy the great Federer (or Sampras yesterday) seem to have forgotten the 1 hbh part, huh? These two GOATS have been the kings of tennis for oh so many years now -- yet more kids use a 2 hbh now than ever before. Ergo, your Borg/Connors creating a massive wave of 2 hbh's in the 1970's theory is a bit suspect... Apparently, what one or two stars do has less influence on trends in teaching and learning technique than do other factors.

    I thought we had an agreed upon set of facts here:

    1) The males who learned to play 30 years ago generally used a 1 hbh.

    2) The males who learn these days use the 2 hbh much more frequently.

    Is there anyone here besides Breakpoint who disagrees with this basic premise?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
    #75
  26. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    I see lots of kids today out there trying to learn 1HBH's, mostly because of Federer. In fact, I've heard a lot of teaching pros say that in 10-15 years, we'll see a lot more 1HBH's on the pro tour because so many kids learning the game today are trying to emulate Federer by hitting 1HBH's.

    BTW, Federer, Nadal, Roddick - 2 out of 3 use 2HBH's so 2/3 of kids today also use 2HBH's.

    Borg, Connors, McEnroe - 2 out of 3 also used 2HBH's. So it would follow that 2/3 of kids at that time also used 2HBH's. So to say that only 1/2 used 2HBH's is rather conservative and does not actually follow the logic, as many more should have, and possibly were, using 2HBH's.
     
    #76
  27. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    It's official: You are completely off your rocker if you list 3 players from the 1970's and say since 2/3's of them used a 2 hbh, it "Would follow that 2/3 of the kids at that time also used 2 hbh's."

    Any sane people reading this who remember the 1970's, and can inform Breakpoint here that his memories of the prevalance (and the 'logic' he uses to support it) of the 2 hbh 30 years ago is a bit... faulty?
     
    #77
  28. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    Those 3 players happen to be the 3 top ranked players in the mid-to-late '70's. Kids tend to want to copy the top players.

    How many kids today try and copy Federer, Nadal or Roddick versus the number of kids who try and copy Gilles Simon, Florian Mayer or Radek Stepanek?
     
    #78
  29. astra

    astra Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Messages:
    176
    I have been playing for 22 years from the age of 20. In summer I play 4-5 times a week, in winter 2-3 times. I have had TE troubles only when I experimented with grips or technique (especially on FH side or serve). Therefore I doubt about TE problems due to 1HB.
     
    #79
  30. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Surely a lot would depend on whether a kid was having coaching or not? Coaches tend to be conservative and teaching methods don't vary too much and they often teach methods they themselves learned, no?
     
    #80
  31. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Sad story, there's someone at my club who recently bought a new racquet - she said the old one gave her TE. I looked at her old racquet and it was VERY head heavy. She's bought another one, lighter even than her original one and also HEAD HEAVY. That combination to my mind is the worst for anyone who might have a TE tendency. Nothing to do with whether you play one handed BH or two handed (though technique might be a factor of course as well).
     
    #81
  32. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    By your logic, since 2/3 of the top three in the late 70's used 2 hbh, and 2/3 of the top three now use 2 hbh, the number of kids using 2 hbh 30 years ago and now is the exact same? So recent trends towards the 2 hbh everyone but you seems to recognize at both the professional and recreational level does not, in fact, exist?
     
    #82
  33. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    That's absurd. I don't think anyone disputes that 1 hbh players get TE more than 2 hbh players.
     
    #83
  34. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    The recent trend is towards the 1HBH due to Federer's dominance and popularity. Just take a look at the hundreds of threads on this board from people that want to learn how to hit the 1HBH. Many times more than those that want to learn the 2HBH.

    I'm talking about juniors that are still developing their strokes, not college players that have been using 2HBH's for many years.
     
    #84
  35. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,398
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    i also think there is a rather big difference from country to country. in france they stopped teaching the 2hbh for instance, so over the time the percentages will adjusting to this fact.
    the only thing that i can say is that of the people i know that are still playing tennis and are older than 35 currently, about 20% play 2hbh, and i really don't know of any case of anyone switching either way.
    there is one thing i want to mention though, that is that we simply tend to forget the slice on the backhand side. those that hit 2hbh drives or topspin, usually hit 1handed slice. when i get tired i find myself playing more slices because there is less energy expenditure on that stroke, besides the fact that you change pace and bounce, which is of discomfort for almost every player. so what might happen as time goes by, is that you will see more slices hit than drive or topspin backhands, but that would not mean that any player switches to a onehanded drive or topspin backhand.
    with a decent serve, a good forehand and a good slice there still is enough butt to kick even in the younger categories.:D
     
    #85
  36. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    It's not absurb. I dispute that and so do many many others - you really seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this.

    My backhand is actually better than my forehand - because I practise it and practise it ad infinitum - I choose the advantage side in doubles so that I can play as many backhands as possible. Don't you think that at my age, if a one handed BH in itself could cause TE, then I would have it?
     
    #86
  37. Frank Silbermann

    Frank Silbermann Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,063
    Tennis elbow on the inside of the arm comes from hitting serves or forehands. On the outside it's caused by backhands. I recently read an article that claimed there are two ways a one-handed backhand can cause tennis elbow: (1) hitting it incorrectly, and (2) hitting it correctly.

    That is, poor players get it because of the stress they put on the elbow with poor backhand technique and frequent mis-hits. Pros get tennis elbow from the stress they put on it from trying to hit one-handed backhands with lots of topspin. They cited Stan Smith who had to retire due to tennis elbow. (Smith was generally considered to have the most perfect form among top players of his day.)
     
    #87
  38. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Thank you for a voice of reason on this, Mr. Silberman.

    I have a bee in my bonnet about this because you're trying to spew nonsense and mis-inform people. YOU are the person who disputes that using a 1 hbh is no more likely to result in TE than using a 2 hbh, there are no "many others" disputing this along with you.

    Plus, no one, including myself, ever said using a 1 hbh "in itself" will result in TE. It just makes you much more vulnerable to TE, get it? By your logic, the fact some long-term smokers don't get lung cancer shows that cigarette smoking doeesn't cause cancer, correct?

    Believe me, if the mighty Stan Smith can develop TE while using a 1 hbh, I suspect even Virginia of New Zealand can as well...
     
    #88
  39. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    How could college players be using 2 hbh's? You said kids are governed by imitating the top guys, so why would these college boys have ever learned 2 hbh's? If today's kids are trending towards a 1 hbh by copying Federer, why didn't yesterday's kids trend toward a 1hbh by copying 14 GS winner Sampras?

    How about this, BP: Why not just tell us what percentage of kids you think used a 2 hbh in the 70s, the 80's, the 90's, and whatever the hell we call this decade, and why. Take us through the fluctuations in the numbers -- IF they have fluctuated -- and your explanations for such.
     
    #89
  40. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,274
    Location:
    1.d4
    Lots of other stuff will take its toll. Also, lots of two-handers play one handed as well, and some switch hands! I'm amazed at the number of guys who have fairly good bi-lateral coordination. About 1 in 10, I'd guess.

    I agree that the full Western forehand is a bear to keep playing with age as it requires excellent timing, which is lost with age. But, again, the forehand can fairly easily be remodelled. Hitting flat to slightly topspin is the best approach for older players, IMHO, and that's what I teach and tell them to do. Just don't poke at the ball. LOL. :)

    -Robert
     
    #90
  41. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,274
    Location:
    1.d4
    Folks with two handed backhands tend to have more wrist problems instead of elbow problems. Choose your poison.

    I have a one handed backhand, and now hit it with topspin (which I learned two years ago), flat, and slice. As I've told Cal many times, EYE have never had tennis elbow and don't plan on getting it. :) I suspect my backhand may be my best groundstroke for some reason (right eye dominance?)

    Btw, I've tried to learn a two-handed backhanded and didn't like it. Maybe it's my long arms or something, but it just feels like a monkey having sex with an elephant.

    -Robert
     
    #91
  42. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,475
    Uh....you ever heard of a guy named Andre Agassi? :confused: Who was more popular and more heavily marketed? How about Lleyton Hewitt or Andy Roddick or Marat Safin?

    Sampras hadn't been #1 since 1998, when today's college players were like 9 years old and just starting to learn the game. Most likely they developed their strokes in their early teens when guys like Agassi, Hewitt, Safin, and Roddick were on top and very popular. Just look at the number of college players that use Pure Drives and other Babolats. Do you think Roddick may have had something to do with that? He's been touted and heavily marketed ever since he turned pro in 2000. That's when all the kids started emulating him and buying Pure Drives. Well, guess what? Those same kids are now in college.
     
    #92
  43. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,274
    Location:
    1.d4
    It's more the coaches than the players. It's what the coaches are teaching. What's the current best thinking. I'm not sure the pro's play has much to do with it.

    -Robert
     
    #93
  44. Joeyg

    Joeyg Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    748
    Location:
    Sarcasm, USA
    I am a 52 year old 4.5 and still play mostly singles. I have a very good 2 handed backhand. Just ask the guys that I play when I whip it past them. Just because you are a "senior" doesn't mean you can't have mobility and still hit the two hander.
     
    #94
  45. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    From the Mayo Clinic:

    BTW pain on the inside of the elbow is actually known as golfer's elbow.

    I'm not in the habit of spewing anything and certainly not nonsense or misinformation
     
    #95
  46. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    Welcome to the TW "Advice" boards, Virginia, where certain people think they know it all (but actually know very little) and, with their egos at stake, will go to any lengths to s...lag and humiliate you rather than accept an alternative-or even just slightly different-viewpoint.

    You're better off ignoring "Heycal"-he does this because he doesn't know how to hold a civil discussion. He's had TE, and that fact alone makes him a self-proclaimed authority on it.
     
    #96
  47. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Yes, I know pain on the inside of the elbow is GE. What's your point?

    The quote you pulled fromt the Mayo clinic is also completely irrelevant, and has no bearing on whether one is more likely to develop TE if they use a one-handed backhand instead of a two-hander.

    Nice try, Alfalfa. Since you realize I'm right in this argument and you share similar if not identical views on this as I do, and thus can't argue with me on the merits of the issue, you feel you have no choice but to resort to insulting me just to look good and chivalrous in the eyes of some female poster, and by doing so, abandoning your beliefs and principles on this issue, for you know Virginia is wrong about this issue, or completely misunderstands it at best, yet you still choose to appear to side with her on this because you want her to "like" you.

    Are you that deseperate for attention and approval from the fairer sex? Yikes...
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007
    #97
  48. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    I thought you were on record as being unable to hit a topspin forehand, Robert?

    Yup. Not to mention lower back problems... TE for a 1 hbh, wrist/back for 2 hbh. You decide!

    You might as well have had it, Robert, for the amount of worrying you do about it.;)


    So what's your overall thesis, BP? That the two handed backhand arrived with Borg and Connors, and was sustained by Agassi, and all the way up until just recently with Federer, a consistent 50 percent of kids have used it because of those famous two handed players? No change and trends in backhands in-between 1975 and 2005 or so?? Is that what you're claiming?

    I would agree with this. And since there have always been 1 handed stars and 2 handed stars to emulate at any given time, A kid can follow his coach's advice AND emulate a star at the same time if he wishes... You suck at hitting a one handed bh, young Federer wannabe? Well, Voila! How about copying that cool Nadal guy instead!
     
    #98
  49. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    I don't even think I insulted you...just pointing out to a new poster how it's pointless to have a civil discussion with some of our more ego-damaged people here. That's just the truth.

    You showed extreme disrespect, just to show YOURSELF how witty you can be and how "right" you are. I don't have to beat someone to death, for my own entertainment, if they have an alternate view. Even the DOCTORS don't all agree on cures for TE, so I'm not even sure how "right" you are on this.

    I haven't "abandoned my beliefs"...we're talking about tennis elbow, not religion, for chrissakes, and you don't see anything I've written that is contrary to what I stated previously...so, a sad use of hyperbole there, spanky.

    As far as abandoning beliefs, I seem to remember you arguing endlessly and ineffectively in favor of cortisone shots, and arguing against the notion that a head light racquet is necessarily better for TE sufferers...then, much later, you posted some drivel list on the ways to avoid TE and included...using a head light racquet! And you said cortisone shots were, in all probability, useless...so, look in the mirror before you speak next time, spanky. You pick, choose and then discard beliefs like so much trash...just to argue with different people. Oh, and also, you're the worst bully on these boards...many, what a hypocrite you are on THAT...You beat an old man in a movie theatre, and now you're beating on an older woman on a chat forum. What have senior citizens ever done to YOU? What a coward. Karma, baby. One day don't be surprised if you pick on a 65-year old who beats your already-broken body into so much pulp.
     
    #99
  50. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Good one, you crazy nutcase.

    I'll just address the most libelous part of your otherwise silly post: I have not changed my views one iota on cortisone or headlight rackets and the causes of TE.

    Why, just in the last 72 hours, I posted pro-cortisone remarks, and I have never changed my position on the merits of a headlight racket -- nor have I ever really had a postion on that issue to even change. I really don't know the answer to that one, since there are several conflicting reports about that, including those who rave about the headlheavy Head Protector rackets. I did include using a headlight racket on a long list of items people in general claim can help with TE, including other factors I take no personal position on, such as flex, grip size, etc.

    But I'm sure you already knew that, alfalfa, and purposely distorted my views on these issues in order to try and score some cheap "points" or something pathetic like that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007

Share This Page