Will stringing the crosses tighter keep the mains from moving?

[BreakPoint]

I normally string my crosses 2 lbs. looser than the mains because the crosses are shorter than the mains, and also because I usually use a multi in the mains and a mono syn gut in the crosses and multis are more elastic than the mono syn gut so should be strung a bit tighter.

However, my mains move way too much so I was wondering if I should start stringing the crosses at the same tension or even tighter than the mains? Will this stop the mains from moving around so much?

My concern is that since the multi mains are more resilient and also longer than the mono syn gut crosses, if the crosses are tighter wouldn't that override the mains when I hit the ball? Meaning that the crosses will reach their elastic limit before the mains do so that it would be almost like I was hitting the ball with only crosses in my racquet? That's another reason I usually string the multi mains tighter than the mono crosses is because I want to minimize the differences in deformation between the mains and crosses when I hit the ball so one doesn't overwhelm the other. I hope I've explained it sufficiently that people understand what I mean.

Anyway, any suggestions on how best to minimize my multi mains from moving as much (which makes for an inconsistent stringbed)? Thanks.

 

[Bud]

I normally string my crosses 2 lbs. looser than the mains because the crosses are shorter than the mains, and also because I usually use a multi in the mains and a mono syn gut in the crosses and multis are more elastic than the mono syn gut so should be strung a bit tighter.

However, my mains move way too much so I was wondering if I should start stringing the crosses at the same tension or even tighter than the mains? Will this stop the mains from moving around so much?

My concern is that since the multi mains are more resilient and also longer than the mono syn gut crosses, if the crosses are tighter wouldn't that override the mains when I hit the ball? Meaning that the crosses will reach their elastic limit before the mains do so that it would be almost like I was hitting the ball with only crosses in my racquet? That's another reason I usually string the multi mains tighter than the mono crosses is because I want to minimize the differences in deformation between the mains and crosses when I hit the ball so one doesn't overwhelm the other. I hope I've explained it sufficiently that people understand what I mean.

Anyway, any suggestions on how best to minimize my multi mains from moving as much (which makes for an inconsistent stringbed)? Thanks.

I haven't found that stringing either mains/crosses a bit higher/tighter than one another prevents string movement. String movement, in general, is a function of string type (shape, rougnhess, etc.), IME.

Some on here will argue the opposite, however (as far as differential tensioning of mains/crosses).

Overall, IME... higher tension = less string movement.

 

[BreakPoint]

I haven't found that stringing either mains/crosses a bit higher/tighter than one another prevents string movement. String movement, in general, is a function of string type (shape, rougnhess, etc.), IME.

Some on here will argue the opposite, however (as far as differential tensioning of mains/crosses).

Overall, IME... higher tension = less string movement.

Thanks, Bud!

I noticed in one of the natural gut threads that you recommend stringing the syn gut crosses 5 lbs. tighter than the natural gut mains. Why do you recommend stringing the crosses tighter rather than looser seeing as how the crosses are shorter and less resilient than the mains? What are the benefits to stringing the crosses 5 lbs tighter in this type of hybrid stringbed? Will you still get the full effect of the gut mains (i.e., power, resiliency, pocketing, spin, etc.) if you string the syn gut crosses so much tighter than the gut mains? Wouldn't that make for an un-uniform stringbed when it deforms on ball impact?

Thanks for any addtional insight you can provide.

 

[Bud]

Thanks, Bud!

I noticed in one of the natural gut threads that you recommend stringing the syn gut crosses 5 lbs. tighter than the natural gut mains. Why do you recommend stringing the crosses tighter rather than looser seeing as how the crosses are shorter and less resilient than the mains? What are the benefits to stringing the crosses 5 lbs tighter in this type of hybrid stringbed? Will you still get the full effect of the gut mains (i.e., power, resiliency, pocketing, spin, etc.) if you string the syn gut crosses so much tighter than the gut mains? Wouldn't that make for an un-uniform stringbed when it deforms on ball impact?

Thanks for any addtional insight you can provide.

Here was the OP's post from that thread:

After 3 months of testing a lot of strings (approx. 25types) from multis, synthetics, polys, I ended up back to the nat. gut. Just tried save money on NG, but it wasn't worthy. Poly - more spin? No way, the gut has a lot of spin if you'll have a good technique. And on the end the Pro Supex Blue Gear messed my wrist.
Current setup: mains Gut (63) cross SPPP (59), but I'm STILL looking for good cross synthetic, since they hold tension better than polys. Any suggestion? Thanks.

I made that recommendation along with the string recommendation (Gosen Micro or PSGD) since the OP was coming from a poly cross. I thought it may be worth a try... closest thing to poly without the pain ... the extra 5 lbs was just to stiffen the SB up a hair more.

IMO, a stiff SG (strung fairly tightly) is the closest you'll ever come to poly in the stringbed without using poly.

 

[tenis]

^yes, I just strung it, Klip Legend at 62 and Gosen Sheep Micro 67 on crosses. Will see tomorrow...

 

[hoodjem]

I wonder if the surface of the string might affect movement also.

I once did a full bed of PSGD, and the slickness of the string surface had the strings going all over the place.

 

[Bud]

^yes, I just strung it, Klip Legend at 62 and Gosen Sheep Micro 67 on crosses. Will see tomorrow...

Give it time to break in, too. It's going to feel pretty stiff starting out

 

[Bud]

I wonder if the surface of the string might affect movement also.

I once did a full bed of PSGD, and the slickness of the string surface had the strings going all over the place.

Yes. Read post #2.

 

[Valjean]

I haven't found that stringing either mains/crosses a bit higher/tighter than one another prevents string movement. String movement, in general, is a function of string type (shape, rougnhess, etc.), IME.

Some on here will argue the opposite, however (as far as differential tensioning of mains/crosses).

Overall, IME... higher tension = less string movement.

A bit strange, there, Bud. For:

1. No one who has before now recommended raising cross string tension has done so believing it prevents string movement, only that it can cut down on it, just as raising the overall tension can. Why the straw man, too?

2. That string movement may stem from characteristics of the string itself--notably the coating used--is well-known; see, for instance, USRSA playtests where Resistance To Movement is one of the many rating criteria employed. What bearing does this have for you, too?

3. While raising the overall tension (see #1 too) does cut down on movement, one prevailing reason for doing just the crosses, and why this is as popular now as it has been, is to avoid exceeding the high end of the racquet's tension range, something you don't acknowledge/appear to know, too.

4. There are other techniques good stringers can employ to the same effect you don't know of, as well--such as giving each string an accurate pull, and giving each string extra time at tension before clamping off. A *lot* of movement, I'm afraid, can be eliminated here just through an emphasis on improved stringwork.

5. For those listening in, get string savers, they're your last hope too!

 

[hoodjem]

2. That string movement may stem from chracterisitics of the string itself--notably the coating used--is well-known; see, for instance, USRSA playtests where Resistance To Movement is one of the many rating criteria employed.

I guess the coatings affect on Resistance To Movement is what I was referring to. Nice to know that the USRSA is way ahead on this.

Is there a link to an article?

 

[mawashi]

I normally string my crosses 2 lbs. looser than the mains because the crosses are shorter than the mains, and also because I usually use a multi in the mains and a mono syn gut in the crosses and multis are more elastic than the mono syn gut so should be strung a bit tighter.

However, my mains move way too much so I was wondering if I should start stringing the crosses at the same tension or even tighter than the mains? Will this stop the mains from moving around so much?

My concern is that since the multi mains are more resilient and also longer than the mono syn gut crosses, if the crosses are tighter wouldn't that override the mains when I hit the ball? Meaning that the crosses will reach their elastic limit before the mains do so that it would be almost like I was hitting the ball with only crosses in my racquet? That's another reason I usually string the multi mains tighter than the mono crosses is because I want to minimize the differences in deformation between the mains and crosses when I hit the ball so one doesn't overwhelm the other. I hope I've explained it sufficiently that people understand what I mean.

Anyway, any suggestions on how best to minimize my multi mains from moving as much (which makes for an inconsistent stringbed)? Thanks.

I doubt tighter crosses make any difference as my hybrid kevlar/syn gut setup at 55/57 still moves quite a bit.

I tried string savers but did not get the consistant feel but I found a thin coating of vaseline or teflon spray works pretty well in helping the strings bounce back into place. They keep the strings lasting longer as well.

mawashi

 

[Blade0324]

Well I'm gonna be the odd man out here as I have found that higher tension on the crosses does help out with string movement quite a bit. That said there are a couple of variables that come into play. The OP mentioned that he is stringing crosses lower as they are shorter, and so they don't cancel out the benefits and characteristics of the mains. While this is somewhat sound theory it's not really that accurate. When pulling tension on mains you are pulling straight and with little to no resistance so the actual tension is what is being pulled. When pulling crosses you have to consider that they are woven through the mains and not straight and also they are pulling against the mains. Both of these contribute to lowering the true tension that is being pulled. So really increasing the tension on the crosses is just getting closer to true tension desired.
While I do agree that string type does play into movement somewhat I think that any string can have movement reduced by increasing the tension on the crosses. Like many I used to string crosses lower than mains but since increasing the cross tension to about 3 lb. higher than mains my stringbed has become more consistant. I have started doing this for a # of clients as well and they are all much happier as their strings move less.
Of course this is just what I have found for myself and 40-50 other clients.

 

[BreakPoint]

Here was the OP's post from that thread:



I made that recommendation along with the string recommendation (Gosen Micro or PSGD) since the OP was coming from a poly cross. I thought it may be worth a try... closest thing to poly without the pain ... the extra 5 lbs was just to stiffen the SB up a hair more.

IMO, a stiff SG (strung fairly tightly) is the closest you'll ever come to poly in the stringbed without using poly.

Thanks, Bud!

So just to clarify, were you telling him to string his syn gut crosses 5 lbs tighter than his mains or just 5 lbs tighter than what he was stringing his poly crosses before?

Thanks.

 

[BreakPoint]

Well I'm gonna be the odd man out here as I have found that higher tension on the crosses does help out with string movement quite a bit. That said there are a couple of variables that come into play. The OP mentioned that he is stringing crosses lower as they are shorter, and so they don't cancel out the benefits and characteristics of the mains. While this is somewhat sound theory it's not really that accurate. When pulling tension on mains you are pulling straight and with little to no resistance so the actual tension is what is being pulled. When pulling crosses you have to consider that they are woven through the mains and not straight and also they are pulling against the mains. Both of these contribute to lowering the true tension that is being pulled. So really increasing the tension on the crosses is just getting closer to true tension desired.
While I do agree that string type does play into movement somewhat I think that any string can have movement reduced by increasing the tension on the crosses. Like many I used to string crosses lower than mains but since increasing the cross tension to about 3 lb. higher than mains my stringbed has become more consistant. I have started doing this for a # of clients as well and they are all much happier as their strings move less.
Of course this is just what I have found for myself and 40-50 other clients.

Interesting. However, since I use a dropweight machine, wouldn't the initial drop get past all of the above that you mentioned so that once the dropweight settles in its horizontal position that should be the actual tension on the cross string itself?

Anyway, thanks for the empirical info. I may give it a try.

 

[Bud]

A bit strange, there, Bud. For:

1. No one who has before now recommended raising cross string tension has done so believing it prevents string movement, only that it can cut down on it, just as raising the overall tension can. Why the straw man, too? Then you need to read more stringing posts on this site. Trust me, you'll see it. Do you think Breakpoint raised this issue out of thin air? It's been talked about numerous times.

2. That string movement may stem from chracterisitics of the string itself--notably the coating used--is well-known; see, for instance, USRSA playtests where Resistance To Movement is one of the many rating criteria employed. What bearing does this have for you, too? I addressed this in post #2 (string type, shape, roughness, etc.)

3. While raising the overall tension (see #1 too) does cut down on movement, one prevailing reason for doing just the crosses, and why this is as popular now as it has been, is to avoid exceeding the high end of the racquet's tension range, something you don't acknowledge/appear to know, too. What exactly is your point? Please go into greater depth on this. What really counts, at the end of the day - when talking about the manufacturer's tension recommendation - is SBS or string bed stiffness.

4. There are other techniques good stringers can employ to the same effect you don't know of, as well--such as giving each string an accurate pull, and giving each string extra time at tension before clamping off. A *lot* of movement, I'm afraid, can be eliminated here just through an emphasis on improved stringwork. If you've bothered reading many of my other posts (i.e. next time conduct some research prior to posting), you'll see that I stress these exact points.

5. For those listening in, get string savers, they're your last hope too! String savers are for the most part irrelevant to this thread. Many have tried string savers and don't care for them.

Please see my responses to your points above in bold type.

Prior to pointing out what you see as oversights or misstatements in my advice... first try conducting some research or read some of my other posts on the subject. You'll see that we are, for the most part, in agreement.

 

[Bud]

Thanks, Bud!

So just to clarify, were you telling him to string his syn gut crosses 5 lbs tighter than his mains or just 5 lbs tighter than what he was stringing his poly crosses before?

Thanks.

BP, I was recommending he string the Gosen SG 5 lbs tighter than his NG mains... the only reason is to make the stringbed a hair stiffer (since he was used to poly crosses, previously). I don't like to string crosses/mains with more than a 5 lb. differential between the two. Depending on the string type (inherent stiffness) as you know it can either shorten or lengthen the racquet hoop) if the differential tension is too large.

See OP's post #5... this is what I was recommending

 

[Bud]

Well I'm gonna be the odd man out here as I have found that higher tension on the crosses does help out with string movement quite a bit. That said there are a couple of variables that come into play. The OP mentioned that he is stringing crosses lower as they are shorter, and so they don't cancel out the benefits and characteristics of the mains. While this is somewhat sound theory it's not really that accurate. When pulling tension on mains you are pulling straight and with little to no resistance so the actual tension is what is being pulled. When pulling crosses you have to consider that they are woven through the mains and not straight and also they are pulling against the mains. Both of these contribute to lowering the true tension that is being pulled. So really increasing the tension on the crosses is just getting closer to true tension desired.
While I do agree that string type does play into movement somewhat I think that any string can have movement reduced by increasing the tension on the crosses. Like many I used to string crosses lower than mains but since increasing the cross tension to about 3 lb. higher than mains my stringbed has become more consistant. I have started doing this for a # of clients as well and they are all much happier as their strings move less.
Of course this is just what I have found for myself and 40-50 other clients.

Take note, Valjean.

Again, this has been talked about numerous times in the TT stringing forum. Personally, I've not found it to be true... but then I haven't used every type of string available. It may hold try for certain strings that are very rough, have an odd shape or have a really 'gummy' texture.

 

[Valjean]

Please see my responses to your points above in bold type.

Prior to pointing out what you see as oversights or misstatements in my advice... first try conducting some research or read some of my other posts on the subject. You'll see that we are, for the most part, in agreement.

I have just never seen in here--nor have you, I'd bet on it--what you claim to have; i.e., frequent claims that raising the cross string tension relative to the mains actually prevents all string movement, rather than just cut down on it. You must be reinterpreting Blade 0324 as well if you think so. What I can't get is how that belief comes into play in here, now--not something your "research" fixation about something you once said to us is going to help, I fear, too.

Maybe you're just trying to sensationalize a topic otherwise too outwardly dull to attract many to you; though I doubt that too, somehow.

 

[tenis]

Give it time to break in, too. It's going to feel pretty stiff starting out

Actually not, I was using poly before and this is paradise. After 5-10 min. of hitting the strings set up and very small movement.

 

[BreakPoint]

BP, I was recommending he string the Gosen SG 5 lbs tighter than his NG mains... the only reason is to make the stringbed a hair stiffer (since he was used to poly crosses, previously). I don't like to string crosses/mains with more than a 5 lb. differential between the two. Depending on the string type (inherent stiffness) as you know it can either shorten or lengthen the racquet hoop) if the differential tension is too large.

See OP's post #5... this is what I was recommending

OK, thanks again Bud.

Next time, I'll try stringing my crosses either at the same tension (depending on the type of string) or a bit tighter than my mains, instead of 2-3 lbs. looser like I've been doing for a long time.

 

[Bud]

I have just never seen in here--nor have you, I'd bet on it--what you claim to have; i.e., frequent claims that raising the cross string tension relative to the mains actually prevents all string movement, rather than just cut down on it. You must be reinterpreting Blade 0324 as well if you think so. What I can't get is how that belief comes into play in here, now--not something your "research" fixation about something you once said to us is going to help, I fear, too.

Maybe you're just trying to sensationalize a topic otherwise too outwardly dull to attract many to you; though I doubt that too, somehow.

Sorry guy... but I can barely understand your post... it's rambling and desultory.

Why would you claim I'm trying to 'sensationalize' what is, in your opinion, an 'outwardly dull topic'? I'm addressing the OP's question, based on my experience.

If you have experience that shows something else than by all means present it rather than picking my posts apart unnecessarily.

 

[Bud]

OK, thanks again Bud.

Next time, I'll try stringing my crosses either at the same tension (depending on the type of string) or a bit tighter than my mains, instead of 2-3 lbs. looser like I've been doing for a long time.

Try it and let us know if you notice any significant difference.

For the most part, I now string my mains and crosses at the same tension after experimenting around on many racquets and not noticing any significant benefits of differential tension.

I only suggest increasing the tension for those who are switching from poly to a stiff SG in the crosses... in an attempt to mimic the previous poly crosses as closely as possible.

 

[v205]

Just wondering. When did 2 piece stringing started getting popular?

I think it prolly didn't start until poly started coming onto the market?

I'd have thought that single piece same tension have been standard for a long time?

 

[Valjean]

Sorry guy... but I can barely understand your post... it's rambling and desultory.

Why would you claim I'm trying to 'sensationalize' what is, in your opinion, an 'outwardly dull topic'? I'm addressing the OP's question, based on my experience.

If you have experience that shows something else than by all means present it rather than picking my posts apart unnecessarily.

Just a lot of hot air we've all seen tricked out before in here. What "experience" do you go by, for instance? And how, when raising overall tension reduces movement, do you try and claim a halfway approach--raising cross string tension--can have no effect at all? But I'd shy away, next time, from assuming you're strewing your "pearls" before swine when dispensing "wisdom" in this forum; several hundred people in here are members of the TW Stringer's Club, many of those (and others) USRSA members of long-standing. I don't think you've shown much respect for most of your audience's experience level, and its ability to separate the wheat from a lot of (your) chaff.

 

[Bud]

Just a lot of hot air we've all seen tricked out before in here. What "experience" do you go by, for instance? And how, when raising overall tension reduces movement, do you try and claim a halfway approach--raising cross string tension--can have no effect at all? But I'd shy away, next time, from assuming you're strewing your "pearls" before swine when dispensing "wisdom" in this forum; several hundred people in here are members of the TW Stringer's Club, many of those (and others) USRSA members of long-standing. I don't think you've shown much respect for most of your audience's experience level, and its ability to separate the wheat from a lot of (your) chaff.

If you don't like my suggestion/advice, don't take it

If others from the "TW Stringer's Club" wanted to chime in here they are/were welcome to do so.

 

[Irvin]

All strings are going to move when the balls strikes the strings. Some strings are going to move less than others. Poly for instance moves less because it is a stiffer string. String at lower tension tend to move more because have more room to stretch. Thicker strings appear to move less because there are more pronounced peaks and valleys where the strings interconnect. Some string move less because they are softer or textured and create more friction between the mains and crosses. Some string like Prince Recoil appear to move less because they are smoother and rebound so after they move they snap back. If you were to not alternatively weave the crosses between the mains they would appear to move less because there would be nothing to hold them from rebounding back to a straight position - this is also illegal according to the rules of tennis.

So if your problem is you don't not want to see crocked strings after you hit you might want to:

• Use a smoother string
• Use a stiffer string like a poly
• Use 'Recoil' strings
• Use a racket with a smaller / denser string pattern
• Increase tension or use less spin

Increasing tension up to a point in either the mains and / or the crosses will cause strings to move less.

Irvin

 

[ced]

I agree with Blade........

Well I'm gonna be the odd man out here as I have found that higher tension on the crosses does help out with string movement quite a bit. That said there are a couple of variables that come into play. The OP mentioned that he is stringing crosses lower as they are shorter, and so they don't cancel out the benefits and characteristics of the mains. While this is somewhat sound theory it's not really that accurate. When pulling tension on mains you are pulling straight and with little to no resistance so the actual tension is what is being pulled. When pulling crosses you have to consider that they are woven through the mains and not straight and also they are pulling against the mains. Both of these contribute to lowering the true tension that is being pulled. So really increasing the tension on the crosses is just getting closer to true tension desired.
While I do agree that string type does play into movement somewhat I think that any string can have movement reduced by increasing the tension on the crosses. Like many I used to string crosses lower than mains but since increasing the cross tension to about 3 lb. higher than mains my stringbed has become more consistant..................

The only time I string the crosses lower is when I'm installing a hybrid and using a poly there, otherwise for the reasons Blade stated I always string the crosses 2-3 lbs higher ...... stringbed 'feel' is more consistent and there is less string movement, keeping in mind that I do not hit with a lot of spin.

 

[Shangri La]

Try the Mojo setup and it gives you ZERO string movement. Also it plays well till it breaks. <I assume poly is not an option for you>

 

[BreakPoint]

All strings are going to move when the balls strikes the strings. Some strings are going to move less than others. Poly for instance moves less because it is a stiffer string. String at lower tension tend to move more because have more room to stretch. Thicker strings appear to move less because there are more pronounced peaks and valleys where the strings interconnect. Some string move less because they are softer or textured and create more friction between the mains and crosses. Some string like Prince Recoil appear to move less because they are smoother and rebound so after they move they snap back. If you were to not alternatively weave the crosses between the mains they would appear to move less because there would be nothing to hold them from rebounding back to a straight position - this is also illegal according to the rules of tennis.

So if your problem is you don't not want to see crocked strings after you hit you might want to:

• Use a smoother string
• Use a stiffer string like a poly
• Use 'Recoil' strings
• Use a racket with a smaller / denser string pattern
• Increase tension or use less spin

Increasing tension up to a point in either the mains and / or the crosses will cause strings to move less.

Irvin

Thanks for the tips, Irvin!

Actually, my issue has nothing to do with seeing crooked strings. I really don't care how they look at all. The problem with strings moving is that it creates large "holes" in the stringbed during a rally. When my mains and/or crosses move away from the sweetspot, it leaves large areas of the stringbed with few strings covering the holes. This makes for an inconsistent stringbed. You can't control the ball as well when it strikes one of these large "holes" in the stringbed because there's not enough strings there to grab the ball to give you the control. Balls just start flying and you can't control the spin as well. I think this is one of the main reason why pros use poly, not just for the durability and spin but for the consistent stringbed. Unfortunately, you can't move the strings back into place until after the rally is over but the longer the rally goes, the less consistent my stringbed becomes because the holes in my stringbed get bigger with every shot.

Unfortunately I can't use poly because it's way too harsh for my arm. So I'm looking for a way to string my multi mains and syn gut crosses to minimize the mains (and crosses) from moving and creating huge holes during rallies.

Thanks again!

 

[Bud]

Thanks for the tips, Irvin!

Actually, my issue has nothing to do with seeing crooked strings. I really don't care how they look at all. The problem with strings moving is that it creates large "holes" in the stringbed during a rally. When my mains and/or crosses move away from the sweetspot, it leaves large areas of the stringbed with few strings covering the holes. This makes for an inconsistent stringbed. You can't control the ball as well when it strikes one of these large "holes" in the stringbed because there's not enough strings there to grab the ball to give you the control. Balls just start flying and you can't control the spin as well. I think this is one of the main reason why pros use poly, not just for the durability and spin but for the consistent stringbed. Unfortunately, you can't move the strings back into place until after the rally is over but the longer the rally goes, the less consistent my stringbed becomes because the holes in my stringbed get bigger with every shot.

Unfortunately I can't use poly because it's way too harsh for my arm. So I'm looking for a way to string my multi mains and syn gut crosses to minimize the mains (and crosses) from moving and creating huge holes during rallies.

Thanks again!

Try using the yellow string savers from Unique... they lock the stringbed in place!

I used to use them on my full Ashaway Dynamite stringjobs and the strings would not move a millimeter. Anyone who has played with AD will tell you those strings move more than ANY other string available.

 

[ls206]

I agree, string savers seem to cut down on movement.
I also suggest applying some lubricant to the strings.
I put some vasaline on mine today and the strings just slid back into place.