Wilson Class Action Lawsuit

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by g_desilva, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    This plaintiff is exposing herself as a total fool by admitting that that ONLY reason she buys a racquet is because she thinks Federer uses it - not that it's the racquet that works best for her game or not but just because some guy who has 100 times the tennis skills that she has uses that racquet that is likely not suitable for her. This suit is like publicizing to the whole world - "Hey, look at me - I'm a total idiot!".
     
    #51
  2. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    that's twice this year

    I AGREE WITH BREAKPOINT!!! :shock:

    I think I might go and have a lie down now...
     
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  3. paul_tennis

    paul_tennis Rookie

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    Maybe she is a racquet collector?
     
    #53
  4. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    The Redbull etc comparisons here miss a key point of marketing - puffery. Clearly outlandish claims can't be held to account in the same way as apparently factual comparisons or associations.

    Wilson allegedly claims Federer uses one frame when he actually uses an older frame - the price difference is the issue according to the plaintiff - but seems an odd one since Wilson don't sell their discontinued frames regardless of the marketing deception. As with common law complaints, actual loss/harm needs to be established for damages to be given. Establishing that would seem to be a tall order here. Granted however, I haven't read the second half of the filing.

    (In case the concepts are not clear go watch the court case scene from The People vs Larry Flynt or read about it > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hustler_Magazine_v._Falwell )
     
    #54
  5. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Would be an awesome outcome!
     
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  6. You Can't Be Serious

    You Can't Be Serious Rookie

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    I agree 100 percent. Companies should be more careful how they advertise.
     
    #56
  7. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    The Woods' case was substantially different in that they claimed he used a retail ball but in fact used one which was not available to the public.

    In this scenario is so different as to be pointless comparing them. This one, at least according to the case file, is more about the price differential between the frames - a point which is misguided or could be readily argued against in a number of ways by Wilson, as I've mentioned in earlier posts.
     
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  8. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Then she should pay $20,000+ at an auction for one of Federer's ACTUAL racquets that he used in competition. Anything else will never really be "Federer's racquet".
     
    #58
  9. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    Wilson completely stated the fact that the frame they sold is identical to Federer's actual frame... just like what Breakpoint has been harping on about since their K90 came out... minus the brand new Asian K90's he was dealing on the TTW FS threads.
     
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  10. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    Greg Raven was also part of that deal, when he basically said their retail frame was the same frame as Federer's. Obviously he has things to gain and things to lose, so he did the most he could with what Wilson gave him... other pro stock frames that he reviewed, not so much, I'm sure.
     
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  11. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I don't think that really means very much. Even I call them "Federer's racquet" or "Nadal's racquet" even though I know they don't actually use that exact racquet because it's just an easy way to describe those racquets.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
    #61
  12. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Did you also buy Wheaties thinking that the picture of Michael Phelps on the box meant that if you ate Wheaties every day that you were guaranteed to win at least a dozen gold medals in the next Olympics? :lol:
     
    #62
  13. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    they advertise it as the stick the pros use, when it isn't.

    not the stick they endorse, or recommend, rather the stick they use.

    it's not like buying an omega speedmaster moonwatch and then getting disappointed that they used an anti-scratch glass backing instead of a clear glass type back. that's done for aesthetic purposes as no one expects to go to the moon. yet, it's 'supposedly' the same watch in terms of the actual bits that matter. so people spend a couple of grand on them.

    i do expect to go a tennis court and compete. if i'm buying sampras' stick or federer's i'd expect it to be the same stick. not just one that looks like it.

    don't kid yourselves. it matters to you guys too. just go to the pro-gear section.

    i actually don't use either, just making a point. where do you draw the line in terms of the lies?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
    #63
  14. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    However, there is no law that says a manufacturer can't give several similar racquets the same retail marketing name. Wilson can make 5 different "Pro Staff Six One 90" racquets - one of which they give to Federer to use and another of which they send to retail stores. Internally, they are given specific model codes but externally, they are all known as "Pro Staff Six One 90". Thus, Wilson could claim that they are telling the truth when they state that Federer uses a "Pro Staff Six One 90", because in fact, he is. It's just that his version of the "Pro Staff Six One 90" is not exactly the same as the version of the "Pro Staff Six One 90" that is sold in retail stores.
     
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  15. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    But that doesn't mean Djokovic actually uses that racquet. A Ferrari is my "car of choice", but that doesn't mean I drive one.
     
    #65
  16. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    What "premium"? The Wilson Steam 99S, Blade 93, PS Six-One 95, Steam 105S, Blade 98, Blade 104, PS Six-One 100L, etc. are all the same price as the PS Six-One 90 at $199 so you are not paying any premium over another racquet that Federer is obviously NOT using.
     
    #66
  17. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    That's a bad example. You can easily prove that a red Hyundai is inferior to a red Ferrari in performance. Can you prove that the retail Pro Staff Six-One 90 is inferior in performance to the racquet that Federer actually uses?

    When you pay for a Wilson Pro Staff Six-One 90, you are paying for a Wilson Pro Staff Six-One 90, which is exactly what you got. When you pay $250K for a Ferrari, you are paying for a Ferrari.
     
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  18. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    I like to think I keep very up to date with everyone's posts about this matter, especially regarding Federer's rackets, but I don't understand these 2 points above. Can you please explain further?
     
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  19. Dave M

    Dave M Hall of Fame

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    I've been thinking about this for some time and a few things occur to me.First these sporting goods companies must have lawyers, I can't imagine for a second that they didn't think that one day someone might pop up with a court action like this, they must feel confident they can win purely because they say things in the ads like
    "Wilson BLX Pro Staff 90
    Best SellerRoger Federer's racquet of choice."
    IT says basically if Roger were to walk into a sports store in his home town and buy a racquet the one he would chose would be this one. Nowhere on wilsons' ads have i seen them put in print "this is exactly the racquet he uses".
    Second, i actually think retailers could have more of an issue because they (as on the wilson page here) have written "pros using this racquet" which is much more specific.They no doubt would be able to say that it was what wilson told them so it could go around in circles.
    I actually think there are companies who are more guilty by having nothing in their lineup which is like the pro's current frames, head, donnay and dunlop all seem to have pro only frames.
     
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  20. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    they have lawyers that review some the marketing copy, but lying to people is such a widespread practice in business, especially consumer goods that business folks don't bad an eyelid. Business people lie to pension funds, old widows and investors, why wouldn't they lie to kids?

    look at how the posters on this forum are defending the companies, and these are some of the people being lied too...

    Makes you wonder if your masarati really can do 185*...


    * Joe walsh reference... youtube it, classique tune...
     
    #70
  21. beeveewee

    beeveewee New User

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    Truth in advertising is definitely a thing. You either tell the truth about what you are selling or you are lying to the consumer. I don't see shades of grey. And calling someone a fool on a friendly discussion forum is not very friendly. (Re: a few posts ago)

    Also, I admit I would be a shade disappointed if I found that no pros like my racket enough to actually use one. It would kind of make me wonder what I was missing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
    #71
  22. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Buy stock in ProKennex NOW!!
     
    #72
  23. movdqa

    movdqa G.O.A.T.

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    I think that Seppi uses a PJ too.
     
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  24. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Semi-Pro

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    Could they be salesmen?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
    #74
  25. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    The people defending the companies are probably the same voters defending lying politicians.
     
    #75
  26. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    I am quite sympathetic to this case, but I doubt Wilson will lose it. The racquet does have Federer's signature on it and is advertised as Fed's racquet, so actually it is a deceptive marketing strategy. I sure hope Wilson's loses the lawsuit. It would force them to make pro stock available to retail costumers or just to admit no pro player uses their retail sticks.
     
    #76
  27. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    what about this analogy...


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    Nope, not even close to being a analogy.
     
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  29. vandre

    vandre Hall of Fame

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    i want to see every person pursuing action against wilson to be forced to hit for 45 minutes with a racquet having the same specs (headsize, weight, etc.) as fed's. anyone who is still painting lines with 1hbhs whose shoulder is still attached to their bodies may continue pursuing legal action.

    really people??? are we this dumb??? i've heard a fool and his money are soon parted but sheesh! now i've bought sticks because they were like the ones agassi used so i've been that marketer's dream come true so don't think i'm saying i'm above all that, but at some point you kinda grow up (theoretically) and say "these might work for aa but they don't work for me" and put them in the closet. to say "they told me this was an exact copy of the racquet fed uses" and sue when it is alleged that it is not is an entirely different level of disfunction i have yet to aspire to. anyway, are they going to subpeona roman prokes from p1 or whoever customizes fed's sticks to testify as to the specs of fed's racquets? if so, all the federer fanboys here are going to crash the interwebs downloading his testimony.
     
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  30. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    It's not about weight, balance, and swingweight. Its about the composition of his frame, the flex, and where it flexes. You've completely missed the point. Just for the record my frames weigh more than Fed's and my shoulder is still securely attached.
     
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  31. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    It is incredible how many posters defend the racquet companies but would pay obscene prices to get their hands on a pro stock frame.

    The car analogy doesn't work at all. The retail Toyota Camry is not painted as the rally Toyota and no one is saying it has the same motor. Yet Fed and Nadal's signature frames look exactly like the one they use on tour and the racquet company touts them as being the real ones.

    By any moral system what racquet companies do is wrong. Hopefully that would be recognised by the legal system, but let's face it, it is probably not going to happen.

    I know an incredible amount of people who have bought Fed's racquet, because that is the one HE uses. It is about time that racquet companies stop lying and admit they sell retail frames that have nothing to do with pro stock, or make pro stock available via retail dealers.
     
    #81
  32. vandre

    vandre Hall of Fame

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    are you kidding me? people are suing wilson over the flex and composition of a racquet? that seems even sillier than suing over weight and headsize. does wilson actually state in advertisements where this racquet flexes or make a claim as to its precise composition?

    good for you and your shoulder. so does that me you're in on the lawsuit too?
     
    #82
  33. akind

    akind Banned

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    Not everybody is following tennis forums on the internet, or researching the backstage world of pro tennis. I think it is a bit harsh to call them cretin.

    Some people are following tennis fanatically, some are just playing for fun after a hard day at work. Somebody might just moved into a new house where there is a tennis court nearby and decided to play tennis for the first time in their life, then they saw Federer racquet at the pro shop and believed straight away that it is the same racquet that Federer uses.

    I think companies are responsible for all the false advertisements they created. They gain profit by tricking people. That is a lie, and not fair at all.
     
    #83
  34. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    "Americans have right to be stupid", Secretary of State John Kerry
     
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  35. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    ...and I approve this message.

    Whoever says that actual Federer's racquet would hurt anybody any more than retail version does not know what he's talking about. Same applies to Head and Babolat paintjobs.
     
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  36. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    Wilson is claiming that Federer uses the Pro Staff Tour 90 BLX which he does not. Federer does not use the BLX frame. There is no BLX in his frames. The suit is that Federer uses a older model racquet and has it painted over to look like what is being sold. The composition of the racquet is very important to how a racquet plays. There are over 10,000 ways a racquet can be constructed using the same mold. The Layup is very important to performance.

    I think paint jobs are very bad for the tennis industry.
     
    #86
  37. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    That's a fact.
     
    #87
  38. themitchmann

    themitchmann Hall of Fame

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    I have to agree. I know it's standard practice these days, however it's misleading for the consumer. Essentially, false advertising.

    Personally, I would be cool if companies offered the same frame in multiple product cycles. They could simple update cosmetics every cycle in order to help drive sales.
     
    #88
  39. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Would love to see a broad-reaching legal decision that pulls Shaq out of that Buick Lacrosse.
     
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  40. themitchmann

    themitchmann Hall of Fame

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    Hahahaha.....
     
    #90
  41. mikeespinmusic

    mikeespinmusic Rookie

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    Unfortunately me when I started :( . I bought a blx tour limited (Based on Justine Hennin and Kei Nishikori supposedly using them).

    I wanted to try and hit hard and fast thinking I'd have the control that it boasted. But I kept launching the ball out of the court and kept having wrist problems due to its stiffness and being so head heavy. Turns out neither players used these racquets. They were using frames way more flexible, actually head light and lower powered and I was left with a dodgey shoulder and wrist.


    I'm a lot smarter about racquets now. But back then, I did believe I was getting what i was paying for :(. Wouldve saved me grief if I'd have known about the concept of paint jobs...
     
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  42. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    When did paint jobs become standard practice? The earliest anecdote I've read is that Lendl's Adidas was actually a Kneissl.
     
    #92
  43. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Semi-Pro

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    If the dealer sold you one "identical" to the nascar one for a pretty $2 Million, and he delivers to you one that looks like the nascar but has the interior and engine of the street car, would you be satisfied? If you complained that it doesn't accelerate or drive like the nascar one, he would tell you that you wouldn't know how to drive that one anyway so why would he deliver it to you.
     
    #93
  44. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    Actually Adidas made the Kneissl White Star Pro under license and called it the GTX Pro. You could also buy both the Kneissl White Star Pro Master or the Adidas GTX Pro and the GTX Pro-T that was made under license buy Adidas in France.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
    #94
  45. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    This claim is way off the mark. Under many moral systems the apparent deception here is the absolute norm so far as business is concerned. In fact it wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in China and most of Asia - especially South East Asia. Their moral compasses are busted by true ethical standards when it comes to business/marketing.
     
    #95
  46. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    For a start, there's no way of knowing what you claim short of getting one of his frames and cutting it open. To my knowledge no-one who's secured one of his frames has done that - so claiming it is potentially a dead end argument.

    We assume he hasn't got the latest tech in his frames - but what is he had changed each time.... which single source of technical information/detail possibly has the means to make it appear so? Wilson... And you think they wouldn't do it? I mean, if the premise is they've undertaken some long deception, why stop now - make a batch of supposed Federer "player" frames and get them ready as your evidence.

    Likewise - it could also be argued that he does in fact change his frame specs, and very often - and that on the specific occasions they claim he used the frame he was using it.

    Hard to believe right?... Well the point really is not that he was - rather, can this case prove that it wasn't the case? I say they'll have a difficult time lining enough blows up for a complete picture to be painted. Not least because there are already factual claims in the action which are 100% wrong* - Wilson will have a field day with some of them.

    (*see post #29 - there alone I outlined at least two completely incorrect claims)
     
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  47. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Yes. Because, at least in the US, you can playtest any racquet you want. Our hosts TW make it incredibly easy. Forget the marketing - do you homework and you'll never have a problem.

    And I'd add: because any clear thinking person knows Fed and other pros received millions of dollars worth of intense instruction to hone their shots. As the old, politically incorrect saying goes (in the US): "it's not the arrows, it's the Indian."
     
    #97
  48. themitchmann

    themitchmann Hall of Fame

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    ^^^not the point.

    It's whether or not we're being told the truth.
     
    #98
  49. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, it is the point. Take care of yourself.
     
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  50. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    You dont need cut it open. I know quite a few different people that own Wilson Pro Room Tour 90 and its a different racquet than the BLX Pro Staff 90. I'm not the one litigating this case. So please dont play lawyer with me you are not a lawyer.

    The closest that Wilson have sold to Federer's racquet has been the K 6-1 Tour 90. So it's funny that they are picking on that.

    I've said before that the plaintiff does not have a good grasp of what is going on with paint jobs and her attorneys even less.
     

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