Wilson Class Action Lawsuit

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by g_desilva, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    ^ I think you miss my point. Kids who want a tennis racquet are going to buy a tennis racquet. Whether they buy this one or that is of little consequence, and does no actual harm. As for lying to kids, let's start with the billions of people who've lied to their kids about there being a Santa Claus, or God, if we're really concerned about kids knowing the whole truth.
     
  2. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Does Ronald McDonald really like and eat MicDonalds?

    He is just a fictional character that the company associates with the product.

    Federer is just a fictional character that the company associates with the product.

    The fact that he actually does exist, unlike Ronald, is beside the point. He plays a fictional character when advertising.

    At some point children have to learn this so what's the problem?
     
  3. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    Ronald McDonald DOES like McDonalds food, but when I was a kid and worked at a McD, we actually sent a guy out to Burger King to bring back Whoppers.
     
  4. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    LOL You compare parents who wanna comfort their kids WITH companies lying to kids for getting their money.

    The motives of parents and companies are different.

    The PR has clouded your brain.

    Sadly Federer is pretending he is an honest real person with his foundation and all.

    But he tells with his paint jobs lies to kids, who wanna use same stuff as him.

    When he would wear the make up and hair and clothes of Ronald Mcdonald every 10 y.o. would know:

    This freak is not real, what he says and does is not real.

    But sadly he is pretending, he is a real and honest guy.


    KR
     
  5. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    Guys, the lawsuit has been thrown out. Someone stated this several posts ago...
     
  6. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    It's my understanding it did not receive class action status. It can still continue with a individual. It does invalidate the claims as they have not been determined or have had trial on the facts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  7. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Name a consumer goods company that does not lie to kids.

    Every toy company, every cereal company, every designer jeans company, every credit card company, every cell phone company, etc. - they all do it. It's called "MARKETING". Without it, we wouldn't have a market economy. We'd be like the USSR or China before they wised up.
     
  8. PHA

    PHA New User

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    When you use a word like "lie", it carries with it a certain culturally received connotation. And while you may feel that every marketing campaign is a pack of, what was your word - lies, the fact is that the rules of what can and can't be said in marketing campaigns are quite clear. Words like "lies" aren't used, but concepts like "substantiation" and "mere puffery" are. And in that regulatory scheme, it's well accepted that you can't make statements that drive purchasing decisions if those statements are true - or, substantiated as the lawyers say.

    And while that may sound like a crazy distinction to you, the fact is that most non-tennis lovers could care less about the difference between a kick and slice serve, and their eyes will glaze over if you try to explain that at a dinner party. Trust me - I've bored many a fellow guest.....

    :)
     
  9. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    S. Jobs was never pretending he is using an i-phone, but in real it was a paint-job of a Samsung.

    Federer and Wilson are sadly doing this.

    An idol for the kids is lying on court he would always use the newest racket you can buy in stores.

    Sampras was one player who did not lie to kids.

    KR
     
  10. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Isn't the real lie that if you were to buy Federer's real racquet you could play somehow better?

    But it is puff that is allowed by law?

    So even if Wilson were to hand over the exact same racquet that would still be lying to the kids.

    In any event, most companies make it clear that the player plays with a racquet different from what is sold.
     
  11. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    The only company that is doing that with their Brand New disclaimer is HEAD. No company claims the racquet you see the player plays with is different.
     
  12. Vcore89

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    Lol, I definitely like Whoppers than Mcs.:)
     
  13. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    They essentially only say it has the same name and looks the same, which it invariably does.

    So it would have been better to say that companies don't usually guarantee it is the same racquet in all essentials.

    If they did they would and should have a problem and maybe Wilson did overstep the line.

    A disclaimer is good, of course, but it is hardly essential provided there is no suggestion that this is exactly the player's racquet.



     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  14. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    They don't do that either. The companies claim that you are buying the same model you see the players on tour use.

    They do have a problem. That is why HEAD is now covering their backside all of a sudden. This internet chat forum is educating people. Some in the industry are now nervous and with good reason.
     
  15. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Really?

    Then why is Sampras using a blacked out Babolat instead of letting kids know he's really using a Babolat Pure Storm?

    Why did Sampras paint Sergio Tacchini logos over his Wilson tennis shoes and lie to kids?

    Why did Sampras cover up the Nike logos on his shirts to fool kids into thinking he wasn't wearing Nike?

    Why did Sampras use the same nCode 90 paintjob that Federer did (he got them from Federer's pro stock)?

    Why did Sampras fool kids into thinking he was using an off-the-rack PS 85 when his was so heavily customized (14 oz. +, SW = 400+) that it was nothing like the retail PS 85?
     
  16. chjtennis

    chjtennis Hall of Fame

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    This conversation is still going on? I don't see any point of us here arguing because I think this thread has shown that everybody thinks differently. Some people don't mind using gears that are not actually pro stock, while others want to have exactly the same thing as the pros use(after it's manufactured in the factory). For the former, it doesn't matter whatever they get. For the latter group, it matters because they think what they buy are the professional version. From what I've personally seen, a great number of people belong to the latter which becomes a problem.
     
  17. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    The original statement of claim basically states that Federer is using the same model racquet but just not the current iteration.

    The claim is that the new one is expensive whereas the real Federer racquet is purchasable at a cheaper cost.

    So the model one buys is the same as the Fed racquet, the name is the same and the paint is the same.

    He uses an older version, that is all, so should the customer be told that?

    Perhaps, yes, but what about the power pads, the string savers, the gut/alu string job that you won't get on a strung model and the lead tape hidden under the bumper.

    Do all cusotmers want a swing weight fifty points higher than what they can play with?

    Is it a realistic cultural assumption that amateurs can play with the same equipment as the highest grade professionals?

    That is why the suit is so ridiculous. By all means stick disclaimers where necessary and use careful language, but that's enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  18. chjtennis

    chjtennis Hall of Fame

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    Again, people who want Federer's racket want exactly the same racket that comes out of the factory. That's it. Forget about the string and modification. They think they can modify the racket if they really wanted to but they just wouldn't do it. That's different from the fact that they will never get the exact same spec as Federer racket no matter how they modify their rackets. If people find out PS 90 BLX is not what Federer actually uses, I'm sure it won't sell much because people will just buy Babolat.
     
  19. Mrlucky986

    Mrlucky986 New User

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    I think it all boils down to the sad state of affairs were everyone want to sue everyone you buy a replica of a pros racket if buying one that should be painfully obvious pros endorse products snooker cues have signatures on only an idiot would think there buying a cue of professional standards for the cost every single player has a totally different setup and when going to a shop you buy something similar if your in the mindset it will help your game in the slightest i hope she loses and people can concentrate on enjoying a fun sport
     
  20. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    If they want the racquet that comes out of the factory then they don't want Federer's racquet. They want a version of it.

    I can understand this, but it's not an argument that the consumer is being mislead.

    The fact is that Wilson would not make enough money selling 'naked' Federer racquets to the public.

    There seem to be two arguments. One is I want the Federer racquet just as it is, the anti paint job mob, and the other wants what is sold to be correctly labelled.

    In any event, the new terminology on here as elsewhere seems to refer to racquets as 'racquets of choice' and how can you argue with that vague assertion?
     
  21. Mrlucky986

    Mrlucky986 New User

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    Very true i just hate that we are in a climate that these sorts of things happen i go by the rule of thumb if one item costs the same as another yet one is endorsed id buy the non endorsed as your not paying for an endorsement
     
  22. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    And endorsement would be simply a part of marketing, which you pay for as well.
     
  23. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    We used to call it lying.

    Now we call it marketing.

    One is considered a sin (or maybe even a crime). The other is the same, but makes a lot of money.
     
  24. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    ^^ no, it's always been part of marketing. The shell game swindle (Thimblerig) and snake oil salesman date back to ancient Greece, if not earlier. The tennis racquet stuff seems rather tame by comparison.
     
  25. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    @ollinger, you're letting facts get in the way of their outrage at another evil, huge corporation.

    I'm still waiting for one of the guys on the 'workers of the world, unite!' team to tell me why they think today's Demo Programs don't make this all moot. Back in the day the only way to try new sticks was if you were lucky enough to have a friend who had one and trusted you to try it out. And selling racquets you bought and hated wasn't nearly as easy; calling friends or posting a physical note on a board at the courts.
     
  26. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    No, the possibility to pay $10-20 to get some trial racquets shipped to you so you can try them out for a week doesn't make honesty in racquet advertising moot.

    Similarly, having a "satisfaction guaranteed, just ship the product back within a week for a full refund, minus shipping and handling" offer does not mean you can make false claims in your advertising.
     
  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Huh? So people buy racquets not because they play their most enjoyable tennis with that racquet but just because some guy they never met uses it? You couldn't pay me to buy a Babolat regardless of what Federer uses.
     
  28. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    So exactly what is "honesty in racquet advertising"?

    Saying that - "If you buy this racquet you will still suck and you will never, ever come even remotely close to playing like Federer in a million, zillion years."?

    Is that how Wilson should be advertising the BLX PS 90? :shock: LOL
     
  29. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    Yes, they do. The owner of 3 of the most successful tennis pro shops in the nation told me he gets people on a nearly daily basis coming in and saying 'I want the racquet Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray/Sharapova/Williams/etc, uses'. He asks 'Don't you want to demo it first to see if you like it?'. 'No', they say 'just string one up'. They also want the same strings, overgrips, etc. I've spoken to other retailers who say the same thing. There's good reason the racquet manufactures pay out big endorsement fees to the top players, they know they get a great return on their investment--if it didn't work player endorsements would not exist. But it does work, and well at that. And you're not fooling anyone, if Federer does switch to a larger head size you'll be one of the 1st to get one too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  30. chjtennis

    chjtennis Hall of Fame

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    I'm not talking about you. Obviously, you have to understand there are people who like apple and who like orange. There are people who buy rackets of their favorite players, regardless of whether that racket suits their game, but there are others who just buy rackets which they feel suit their game better. Then, there are others who hate these marketing strategy and just stay away from those name player's gears.

    Everybody's different. However, you must acknowledge there are large group of casual fans who buy stuff because of who uses it. That's their choice and nobody's to say anything about that. However, tricking people with wrong information is not ethical. Also, a lot of people who buy Federer's racquet buy that because of Federer. There's no denying that. Once Federer retires, the proof will be more clear.
     
  31. chjtennis

    chjtennis Hall of Fame

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    Don't be so extreme. All these people are asking is nothing unreasonable. Look at all those advertisements, tennis specialty shop's websites and racquet reviews. They make it very clear Federer uses PS 90 BLX, which is not true. It's different from merely displaying his photos on the advertisements. They are telling people Pros are actually using these as their gear. People belive that and they want to feel what the actual pro's gears feel like and so they buy them. Racquet companies and shops just shouldn't do that because that's lying.
     
  32. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Is that why when Federer switched to a larger racquet this summer, I switched to a smaller one?
     
  33. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    Very true!

    Some people are implying, when you do not use paint jobs and do not lie to kids, you are a commie! :)

    Steve Jobs did not paint-jobed Samsungs to i-phones and showed them to kids to get their money.

    Maybe he was a commie? LOL

    There must be a border for the free market. Jobs knew this, Federer does not.

    He pretends kids could buy the same exact racket he plays with. This is so low.

    And yes, there is a difference when you tell your little son that Santa brings the presents. You do not earn money with this.:)


    To Sampras: He played with no paint job, now he plays with a black racket (always with visible lead strips at 3/9.) - because he has no business relation with Babolat and using an outdated model.

    KR
     
  34. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    That has nothing to do with it. Do you think it's Babolat that's forcing him to paint his racquet black? No, not at all. They would love for him to play with it with the retail paintjob on it. It's Sampras that's trying to extort money from Babolat - he'll only remove the black paint if Babolat pays him money. In the meantime, he's fooling kids into thinking he's still using his old black Wilsons (PS 85, KPS 88, etc. ) instead of a Babolat.

    BTW, you are making money by telling your kids that it's Santa Claus that brought the gift. You can buy a cheap gift and put it under the tree and tell your kids you had no control over whatever Santa happens to bring them. If you told your kids the truth that it as really you that gave them the gift, you'd have to buy something much more expensive. :)
     
  35. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    LOL Yes, the 98er Babolat looks so similiar to a PS 85.
    He does not play with a paint job of a PS 85.
    He does not lie to kids as Federer.

    Of course a company like Babolat should pay him, then Sampras could give money back to the kids, which are abused in China based french factories. :)

    Did you fall too often on your head in the fireplace?

    KR
     
  36. corners

    corners Legend

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  37. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Any news with the cases?
     
  38. corners

    corners Legend

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    Any news on these cases? I think there are two: an earlier one in California claiming that Federer uses a different racquet than the K90, and a second one claiming that Federer uses a customized racquet that is substantially dissimilar to the retail version. Not sure how serious the second one is; the first one has been discussed in this thread.

    Does anyone know if either of these have been resolved? Or are they ongoing?
     
  39. rh310

    rh310 Professional

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    In the current Tennis magazine, both Dimitrov and Dolgo are featured in ads for the PS95S. The pictures show them in match play, and the picture has been doctored to show both frames with the 16x15 string pattern.

    Since neither Dimitrov or Dolgo play with that string pattern, and I can only presume that Wilson is not all that afraid of a lawsuit.
     
  40. rh310

    rh310 Professional

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    Au contraire. Kids playing tennis don't give a tinker's damn about Sampras.
     
  41. The forehand

    The forehand Rookie

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    The fact is that some players who are quite basic, have to ask themselves are they buying frames to be better at tennis so train and work, or buying frames to look cool when your still being beaten buy people using racket worth half the price . Frankly if you had a brain you would work hard and buy frames that suit you.
     

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