Wilson Graphite Force....

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by VGP, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Thought I'd start a thread on another Wilson midsize frame that's been a personal favorite since August of '09.

    I picked one up for $10 at a local used sporting goods store. From the first hit I was hooked. Even with the old thick gauge nylon strings that were in the frame.

    Some details on this particular model (info taken from a recent e-bay auction listing):

    This model was introduced in 1984 at $89 retail price.

    Tennis Racquet Specification Table
    Brand:1984 Wilson Graphite Force Midsize 85 sq in
    Short Description: Provides a solid blend of stiffness and power, plus fine mobility and balance.
    Head Size: 85 in2 / 548 cm2
    Length: 27 in / 686 mm
    Strung Weight:12.8 oz / 362 g
    Strung Balance: 5 pts HL / 328 mm
    Composition: Graphite / Fiberglass Composite
    Beam Width: 20 mm Straight Beam
    Power Level: Low
    Stiffness: Medium Flex
    Swing Type: Fast
    String Pattern: 16 mains / 19 crosses
    Grip Type: Leather
    String Tension: 65 - 70 lbs / 29 - 32 kg recommended

    World tennis Magazine decimal rating system from 1984: playability profile (1 - min / 10 - max)

    Stiffness: 8
    Stability: 7
    Power: 8
    Playability: 8

    Some pics:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I actually like this frame better than the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize. Perhaps it's the extra cross string that adds a touch more control. It could be the thicker beam that makes each hit feel pretty beefy. What I really like is the feel of volleying with the racket. Solid.

    There are very few threads on this frame. Old ones in the general 'Racquets' section, which I'll reference....

    In this thread MAXply had some nice things to say:

    .....and in this thread:

    I agree with what these posters said.

    Thought I'd hype up this frame a little bit. I'd hope that some TTW members that have a penchant for classic midsize frames, perhaps even those that love the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize give this one a go.

    I'd love to hear other people's opinions......
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
    #1
  2. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Here's a visual comparison to a blacked-out Wilson BLX90....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    No disrespect to the PS85, I'm just liking this one at the moment.

    Speaking of the PS85, in lining up the heads, the Wilson Graphite Force seems to have a slightly larger one.....like an 88.

    I'd love to have Jack & Coke do his headsize analysis on this frame....

    I've collected a few of these (thanks to a couple of TTW members) to make it my current playing frame. I've even been using a nice retro bag......maybe I'll post additional pics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
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  3. MAXXply

    MAXXply Hall of Fame

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    ...Dang you VGP! :wink: Wish I still had my Graphite Force now you've given it your stamp of approval...it's now part of TT member Virginia's collection so it went to a good home.
    There was also a member at the time wanting to offload their Forces in the For Sale section IIRC
    Glad you really like it; it's still the playing stick of the septugenarian senior at my club...old skool never dies... :)
     
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  4. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Well, I'm not septuagenarian, but I do like the frame a lot. ;)

    I've been a long time PS85 user and I like the firmness of that frame. But alas, it's become one of those collector frames. Replacements are costly, even the cost of replacement bumperguards and grommets has gone up. I (along with others) was on a quest to find something similar.

    I first saw the Graphite Force at the used sporting goods store and I initially passed on the frame. I was not familiar with the frame at all prior to that day. It looked similar and had a nice weight but I was discouraged by the fact that it didn't have a bumperguard as did most frames of the early 80s. Similarly to Wilson models like the Reflex, Graphite Matrix, early Pro Staffs.

    I mulled it over and I decided to go back. I thought if it was still there, I'd purchase it. I'm glad I did. I did a search here on TTW and found the limited, but favorable reviews of the frame.....

    I've been using it for about 5 months now. I've tried it side by side with Wilson midsize models PS85, kPS88, Reflex, BLX90 and a Boris Becker BB11 mid.

    Next to the PS85, it's become my favorite playing frame. The Wilson Graphite force addresses the "problems" I have with the other frames.

    I found the kPS88 a touch too powerful. I felt that I used more topspin to keep the ball from overshooting the baseline. With the Reflex, it was nice but too flexy. I didn't like the polarized weighting and the "feel" of the BLX90. The BB11 mid is just too cushy in the frame and with the open stringbed on a 93" head size.

    With the Graphite Force, I can hit out off the ground comfortably like I'm using the PS85, but I gain a touch more control. It has a comfortable flex and a nice feel on impact. It has to be the additional cross string (with even drilling - 16 x 19) that gives the string bed an even response from top to bottom. My favorite shot lately has been the volley. One of my hitting partners has remarked on a couple of occasions how much better my volleys are with this frame.

    I always enjoyed serving with the PS85. I actually really enjoy the serve with the kPS88. I am able to put a good amount of work on the ball with that frame. I took a lesson using that one and my teaching pro commented on the spin I was able to generate. With the Graphite Force, I'd have to say that my serves are a little more controllable than the PS85 - again the consistent string bed - but with a little less pop than the PS85 or kPS88.

    As much as I'm enjoying the frame, a gripe of mine is being unable to get replacement grommet strips. It is over 25 years old, so I don't expect it to be easy. Since I string my own frames, I've ground out some of the bad grommets and used tubing......but I found that if I cut up the plastic parts to the Dunlop Aerogel 500, I can use them to replace individual grommets.

    I'm really hoping some aficionados of the PS85 try this frame out. Especially those that like the Chicago or SV frames. Perhaps the players that like a more flexy "PS85" gravitate toward the Wilson Kramer Staff or the older Pro Kennex Ace series. The Graphite Force might fall under that category......

    I've read on here (a poster that knew someone that used to lay the graphite for Prince POGs) that the old graphite fibers used at the time was long and coarse like horse hair. The "newer" graphite is more refined, the fibers are shorter and smoother. I think that difference is what makes these classic frames so special. I assume it's harder to recreate that "old-school" feel with newer materials simply because the base material is different. I'm not saying it's bad, just different.

    Well, I've been long-winded in extolling the virtues of yet another classic frame, but I thought after enjoying this frame for some time I'd do a little write-up........also, given the price of what they go for on the used market, it can be quite the value.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
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  5. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    How does the Graphite Force compare to the Pro Kennex Black Ace or Copper Ace?
     
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  6. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    i actually did a search myself on this exact frame, it was the first tennis racket i ever played with, about 10 years ago for a summer camp, my uncle gave it to me. Though the grip on my frame is a tad too big (4 5/8), it is still very fun to hit around, and your comparison with the KPS88 is spot on, IMHO. I did not have trouble controlling the KPS's power off the ground, though this could be because the way i swing naturally generates considerable spin.

    If you track down some grommets for your Graphite Force, can you possibly point me in the right direction? the grommets in this frame are just a mess, and though i have 6 replaced with nylon tubing, I would much rather find a new set to use..

    i was surprised at the weight you listed, my force seems far lighter. I still need to buy a letter scale, and see if it is indeed as light as it feels.

    I also found that it was very good for volleys, and that the 20 mm beam gave plenty of control and stability. It volleys, IMHO, about the same as the KPS88, though with greater maneuverability for reaction volleys.

    Great thread :)
     
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  7. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Not sure about the Black Ace, I recall the Copper Ace being akin to the Wilson Graphite Force, it's been a while on that one. I was thinking more like the Silver Ace.....compact head, similar graphite and fiberglass construction. Another PK Ace frame with which I'm familiar is the Pro Kennex Composite Ace. It has a semi-isometric head and what feels like a graphite/fiberglass construction as well. That frame has a nice firm response but the beam is thin.

    Thanks, I meant that I had to add extra topspin to my strokes to help bring the ball down with the kPS88. I do like the frame and I'm keeping it since it's technically a new frame with readily available replacement parts......speaking of which.....


    Like I said, I'm having to tube my frames as well. The first one I bought, the ten dollar one, the grommets were all shot. They were so fragile, each one cracked as I tried to pull off the grommet strips.

    At the moment, I'm still at a loss for finding the exact replacement parts.


    That's why I thought the BLX90 was going to be a good fit. The frame weighed right (less than the Graphite force, actually), balanced right, etc.....but the weight of the Graphite Force must be evenly distributed and if it is, that's what I like. I'm sure for most people, the kPS88, the k90 and BLX90 are good frames. It's just on the latter two, I just didn't enjoy using frames with what I'm assuming is a polarized weight distribution.......maybe that's why the Graphite Force swings easy in comparison.

    FedererClone (he has the Graphite Force too) in another thread said that he found the frame lacking in the manuverability category. I, like you, find the Graphite Force more maneuverable than the kPS88, but it's not overly whippy or headlight. That's a good thing. I'm sure the swingweight is probably "up there" by today's standards, but this frame's got a lot behind it while still maintaining comfort during play. That's why I like it.
     
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  8. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    Silver Ace is 80% graphite, 20% fiberglass. Copper Ace is 40/60 (graphite/fiberglass).
     
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  9. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    I thought the Copper Ace was graphite/fiberglass, too. I didn't know it has more fiberglass. Thanks for that, pshulam.

    My memory might be off base. Like I said, it's been a while as I don't own it but hit with one a loooong time ago. Probably thinking that anything non-wood was powerful.

    I would say that the Graphite Force is more like the PK Silver Ace and Composite Ace. I own the latter and have used that one recently.

    I also have the PK Copper Ace 90. That's a different frame - even from its namesake - it even has a roundish profile (like the Wilson Hammer Spin), so no similar comparisons should be drawn.
     
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  10. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    thanks for your reply, i managed to come across another Graphite force on the bay, item number 300350378414. you may want to take a look, grip size L4, looks in pretty good shape. I may bid, I may not. would be nice to have a second one :)
     
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  11. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Yeah, I've been watching that listing too.

    It's been up for a while and they've come down on the price $10 from the time I've been watching it. It's been up for a few months now. I think the asking price is still a bit high based on the going price for Graphite Forces on e-bay. Although the frame looks pretty nice.

    All in all, it's not a bad price for a decent Wilson Midsize frame. But, I've been spoiled getting my first one for $10 and a couple from fellow TTW members that were kind enough to sell me theirs after posting in the 'Wanted' section late last year.

    I think I'm good on frames for now. I'll continue watching that listing out of curiosity if anything. See if the seller comes down on price any further.... or see if someone bites.

    On a practical note, I got to play some doubles last night. That was a little unexpected as I was just planning on drilling with my regular hitting partner. Sad to say, I hadn't been on court for a couple of months.

    We ran into another friend of ours who was there to play with one of his friends. This guy is a former D1 collegiate player and his friend was of a similar level.

    I'm glad I held my own being able to hold serve with very few double faults. I returned terribly but served and volleyed well. I could feel the flex of the frame more as these guys hit a heavy ball. I should have switched frames to the one with the fresher stringjob......

    So far, it's I'm still enjoying the frame. A little more of a reality check having run into some better players. Even though I don't get to play as often as I like, my love affair with the Wilson Graphite Force continues!
     
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  12. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Just some additional pics. A stock frame with the cover, a close-up of the cover, and my current favorite bag.....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    you said earlier in the thread that you had some crappy nylon string in one of the Graphites..care to mention the specific string?

    do you play with bare leather as well? I just put a new leather grip on mine last night, doesn't play good with anything else, IMHO. I'll try to get some pictures of all my wilson mids up soon.
     
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  14. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    The first frame I bought still had what appeared to be the original stringjob in it. Mind you, the listed recommended tension of the frame is 65-70 pounds so even after 25+ years, the stringbed was still firm.

    I didn't say that the strings were "crappy" I just commented that it looked like the original thicker gauge nylon. A string that was commonly used back in the day. I don't know if it was a solid core synthetic gut with a single wrap or a double wrap. The current equivalent is probably Prince Tournament Nylon 15L. I think a string like Prince Tournament Nylon 15L is a rather unpretentious string. It is what it is. At under $1.50 a set it's durable and firm. I actually bought some to maybe install in the Graphite Forces just for fun.

    As for the grip. The first one I bought I played a bit with a single overgrip (Wilson Pro Overgrip Soft) over the leather. That one was the one where the grommets were shot. All cracked and fragile. I cut out the strings and ripped out the grommets one by one. It's currently sitting unstrung without grommets.

    The frame pictured is a stock frame. Original strings. You can still see remnants of the "W" stencil. Original leather grip and cover.

    The frames that I'm currently using have the leather removed with Head synthetic replacement grips on with black Yonex Supergrap overgrip. The cushy grips aren't my favorite. I intend to put new leather on someday soon. Perhaps the thin TW private label grips.....I normally use frames with leather grips with an overgrip, like my PS85s.

    Back to strings, in those frames I put in Gamma Synthetic Gut 16 in gold in one frame, PSGO 16 in white in another. Both strung at 66 pounds reference tension on a lockout machine.
     
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  15. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    I took out a Graphite Force (GF) with original string for a spin today. Compared to a PS85, the GF is heavier by ~0.5oz. Unlike the PS85, the GF did not cause shoulder fatigue after one hour of hitting. The racquet (to my surprise) is quite maneuverable at the net despite its weight. It feels more comfortable, powerful than the PS85. The control and stability are comparable. I was able to direct the ball to the baseline with ease. Serve-returns were smooth. Overall, it's a fun stick for hitting but may not good for extended period of time because of the demand on the shoulder.
     
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  16. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Thanks for your input, pshulam.

    Glad to see someone post a fresh opinion on the Graphite Force. I also like that you are able to compare it to the PS85. It's the comfort coupled with solid performance as to why I'm still using the frame.

    pshulam, did you recently purchase a Graphite Force? and could you compare to your PK Copper and Silver aces? Since they're part of your frame collection......

    I too found the frame enigmatic. Based on the specs, the head-heavier balance compared to the PS85, I didn't expect to enjoy volleying and good service action with the Graphite Force.
     
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  17. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    VGP,
    Yes, I purchased the Graphite Force (GF) last week from the bay. The PK Copper Ace is softer and thinner than the GF. The control is just about the same between them. The Copper Ace edges out the GF in the level of comfort and maneuverability since it's lighter and more flexible. The GF is more stable and has plow through than does the Copper Ace. I do not have a preference as both frames are nice to hit.
     
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  18. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Glad to hear that you like the frame. I do find the stability and plow through of the Graphite Force exceptional. Figured the difference with the PK Copper Ace would be like that.

    You say you got it off e-bay last week. Was it the one that has the 4 3/8 grip where the auction photos had a red background? I placed a couple of bids on that one. It looked to be in nice shape even though the photos weren't the best. Should you decide to sell, lemme know..... :)
     
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  19. PBODY99

    PBODY99 Hall of Fame

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    When the Force came out I thought it was aimed at the Head graphite Edge of the time. I strung for a Jr who father was a only purchased Wilson so he used this frame since he did not like the Sting and his pop wouldn't spring for the Pro Staff.
    Enjoy.
     
    #19
  20. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Thanks again PBODY99.

    Your knowledge of, now classic (no offense meant), retail knowledge helps a lot. Not to mention your help with my Gamma/Tenex 4000 stringing machine.

    IIRC, the suggested retail of the Graphite Force was about $40-$50 less than the PS85 around 1984.

    Given the makeup and specs of the Graphite Force, it does seem to be a competitor frame to the Head Graphite Edge.
     
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  21. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    The one I got is 4 5/8. The racket is in very good shape except for one broken grommet at the bottom and a few minor scratches at the top of the hoop.
     
    #21
  22. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Oh, that's the other one. I asked about it. That was the second go-round for the seller. The second auction only had the one pic. I wasn't super interested for me given the grip size.

    I saw from the photo that there was a mark above the handle and asked if it was the beginnings of a crack, but the seller said that it was just a small scratch. Also that the head was protected with head guard tape. Makes sense since these were among the beginnings of the composite age where bumperguards weren't yet ubiquitous.

    Glad to hear that you seem satisfied with your purchase.

    Post some pics....I don't want to feel alone in my love for the G-Force Mid! :)
     
    #22
  23. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    The mark was a small scratch.
    here is a picture of the racket after head guard and scratch removals and general cleanups:
    [​IMG]
     
    #23
  24. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Thanks pshulam..... :)
     
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  25. WORLDWITHINAWORLD

    WORLDWITHINAWORLD New User

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  26. WORLDWITHINAWORLD

    WORLDWITHINAWORLD New User

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    Sorry I messed up on this one. I wanted to reference VGP s post about the force. My comments are about the Snauwert.
     
    #26
  27. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    Please post pictures of the Snauwaert Fortissimo. I heard it plays similar to the PC600.
     
    #27
  28. WORLDWITHINAWORLD

    WORLDWITHINAWORLD New User

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    Slow on the pictures

    I wish I could send pictures of the Snauwaert Fortissimo. Sorry,I am not on the cutting edge of technology.I use the Yahoo finance site,I use ask.com,and I use talk tennis.thats it. I dont even carry a cell phone. I dont know facebook from spacebook.I will read the info on my digital camera and eventually will send that picture.
    Meanwhile I will try to describe my Fortissimo. Mine is about 100 sq. inches. I dont know if there is a smaller, 90 sq. inches. The main strings are as long as a Prince POG. The cross strings are about one half of an inch shorter. A code on the side is 4 345 310 .which ,I guess, stands for grip size, actual weight in grams and swing weight. The cover is interesting because it says Snauwaert tennis instruments ;which,I assume, illustrates their company's attitude toward quality. The made in Belgium frame has a very attractive appearance in a classic manner. Its mostly a glossy black with a deep quality paint job.The top and bottom faces have a gold stripe with one red pin-stripe inside.The Snauwaert name is on the throat in red letters. The top of the head reads graphite fortissimo, also red letters. The frame is 27 in. long and I measure the beam at 20 mm. For reference, I measured my POG at 18 mm. The thickness of the Snauwaert frame is 12 mm. I measured the POG thickness to be 11 mm. There is a big difference in the handle length. The POG is 6.5 inches and the Snauwaert is 8 inches - much better for 2 hand backhands. As far as playtesting, I don't imagine that the fortissimo would play like a PC 600 , which is smaller and probably more headlight. I dont have a PC 600. The closest that I have is a Head graphite pro 90 sq. inch, which is a twin tube. For me the Head plays better than the Fortissimo. That statement is a little unfair toward the Snauwaert because there are better strings in the Head and I tend to prefer the 90 sized rackets over the oversized frames. The Snauwaert just "reeks" of quality, so I intend to re-string it with an arm friendly,quality syn-gut string and play it some more.
    So,i will work on that and the pictures.
     
    #28
  29. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the description. I have found a couple of pictures of a Snauwaert frame.
     
    #29
  30. bhathiya9999

    bhathiya9999 New User

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    I recommend it is very good racket and can play hard tennis
     
    #30
  31. Standupnfall

    Standupnfall Semi-Pro

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    There are 2 of these in the TW classifieds right now. One is mine in 4 1/2 and P still has his up I believe in 4 5/8
     
    #31
  32. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Awww....

    Someone beat me to Standupnfall's G-Force listing....

    I hope whoever purchased the frame could post a review. Still trying to drum up interest in this frame. I still think it's great!

    Thanks to those who've contributed thus far.

    Speaking of G-Force, does anyone remember the old show?

    [​IMG]
     
    #32
  33. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Oh, Standupnfall, do you have an opinion on the frame's playability?
     
    #33
  34. brunboom

    brunboom New User

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    BOOM-SHocka Locka

    well i was intrigued on this frame due to this posting..now i am awaiting the arrival of 2(1 from here,1 from *bay)..on paper this frame is legit, solid vintage graphite,12 plus ounces,20mm straight beam, & for both i paid 65 total..i am by know means in the place to be giving out advice on tennis or tennis equipment but ill post a review after a month or 2 playing..it'll be interesting since my main frames are 4 limited edition head radical tours..big dif. in size, but common denominators such as solid graphite,12 plus ounces,& 20mm straight beam...i doubt ill jump to this as my gamer(deeply in love w. my shh-it brickhouse of frames that i swing now & bc my game is not yet fully dial'd in enough to swing an 85sq in. on the regular..ima love it, & tell every1 i hate it, so VGP & I can gobble em all up & the value doesnt inflate..if ya got em, i prefer 4 1/2 but ill take 3/8, LET ME KNOW...
    & best thing about the G-Force is that there probably older than me(born 11/85) haha...2 B CONTINUED
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
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  35. brunboom

    brunboom New User

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    hoody-whooooo

    this may or may not be kosher for me to ask here in this thread.....
    (if not i beg & plead for 4giveness) but any suggestions on strings that'd be kopasetic w/ my frames when they arrive..obviously any string or hybrid works, but any ideas to enhance the G-force & work in unison..my current string is a full bed of HEAD Ultra Tour 16 or 17 but thats bc i feel the string works well w/ the frame...i already generate ALOT of power, crave even more, & fancy mass amounts of spin...i desire launching missiles aka (**singing voice**"bombs over baaaaghdad") all over the court..
    thinking maybe:
    1) Solinco Tour Bite 17 & Vanquish 16 Hybrid Set
    2) Wilson HyperLast Spin 19 Hybrid Set
    3) full bed of RPM Blast
    4) or the obvious money hungry hybrid of Wilson nat. gut or nxt tour w/ a lux banger of some sort
    (in which i do not probably need)

    i dont test alot of strings, i find something & stick to it....
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
    #35
  36. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    leona 66. make the wires match the stick!
     
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  37. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    brun boom - looking forward to your review....

    t-buggle - I'm on a quest to find my "minimal expenditure" type of equipment.....I've been stringing with Gamma Synthetic Gut 16, but I'm gonna go even cheaper with Prince Tournament Nylon 15L.....at the same tension of 66 pounds.

    Roll of athletic tape to shape the base of the grip: $0.99
    3-pack Yonex Supergrap in black: $2.95
    Prince Tournament Nylon 15L: $1.49
    Grommet sets to cut up for replacements: $4.99
    Nylon tubing: $3.50
    Tenex 4000 stringing machine: $25 (services done myself)
    Wilson Graphite Force: $35

    Base total: $73.92

    Satisfaction of playing on the cheap and loving it: PRICELESS
     
    #37
  38. brunboom

    brunboom New User

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    1st impression

    recieved my 1st g-force in the mail 2day thanks to STANDUPNFALL...shes a beaut, clean lines,vintage, & classic!! whip'd it around the house hitting dust bunnies to see how it felt in my hands...heavy, but ina good way..my L.E. radicals are around the lower end of 12 oz, & the g-force is def. in the upper 12'z...my L.E.'z just start moving automatically when grasped in my hand & these g-forces are going to need some gas to get outa idle when linked to me, in which i dont mind-just gonna have to concentrate on FUNDAMENTALS-BACK TO THE BASICS to unleash fury w/ the g-force...think im going to take this racquet & take a few lessons w/ it...im a noobie w/ heads this small but not afraid...ima powerhouse of a young buck:
    (5'11.5 & a swift,agile,light 250...yes its possible) so i can create pace, just gotta dial in...the g-force def. wont be my X-caliber anytime soon bc nothings replacing my main girls (L.E. radicals), but i think the g-force could be a few of my side hose, actually i guess they'd be more like my cougers since they are older than me, so im stocking up....whip it-whip it reeeal hard

    p.s. think im going to try out a hybrid of Solinco Tour Bite 17 & Vanquish 16 or full RPM Blast, i want the ball to really-really pocket before it spits out & explodes...not ricka-shay or trampoline
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
    #38
  39. VGP

    VGP Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
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    6,311
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    Thanks for making me feel old BTW.....


    Hope you have fun!
     
    #39
  40. VGP

    VGP Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
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    Sounds like you had a good deal with Standupnfall......be sure to leave a positive reference.
     
    #40
  41. FedererClone

    FedererClone Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    480
    So after demo'ing a few frames (head prestige, babolat pure storm, prince EXO3) I was unconvinced any of these newer frames were for me. I was especially disappointed in the EX03 as I have the 4-stripe POG 93 (which I love) and thought it would compare... prestige was the best for me, but at 98sq in, sure, it was a greats serving stick but I just had too much difficulty grinding out winners at the tail end of some long rallys....

    Anyhow, I decided to pick up the Graphite Force for a couple of sets today... and it felt very comfortable around the court.

    I recall it was less maneuverable than my Reflex many months ago but for some reason I really jived with it today. Pop on the serve was very responsive, very predictable and solid on the groundies and very solid at the net.

    I think the key to this graphite frame is to let it do the work and play within yourself (easier said than done of course!) and let the weight of the frame do its stuff. Its even 16/19 stringbed does allow for very predictable results (as is the 16/19 Reflex but in a different way owing to the thinner beam) and it even felt solid on heavy FH topspin strokes returning high and deep balls... keeping that smooth stroke and feeling the frame go through the ball was pretty awesome today.

    It may be a heft stick but the balance of the Graphite Force is really something to admire. None of the newer frames I tested compared to this 85sq/in frame, and IMHO it is the older graphite construction in this - and my other 85 sticks - that really does create an unique feel on the court.

    Anyhow, just my 0.02!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
    #41
  42. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

    Joined:
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    I'm glad that you like the GF. The head size, I think, is about 88 sq. in.
     
    #42
  43. FedererClone

    FedererClone Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
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    480
    Thanks Pshulam.... Yes she does feel a tad bigger than some of my other "85s" ... BTW are you familiar with the Sting SC midsize? It also actually feels bigger than 85... more like a 90 size head. A little off topic but here are some pics. She also hits very well, the low ceramic addition to the stick making for some nice feel on the ball... maybe the lack of Sting stabilization bar adds to its unique feel??

    http://gallery.me.com/fastlens#100351
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
    #43
  44. pshulam

    pshulam Hall of Fame

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    I am not familiar with the Sting SC? Nice pictures - thanks.
     
    #44
  45. vic9

    vic9 New User

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    30
    Hey nice SC. I didn't know they came without the bar. I think it's the ceramic that makes it feel so nice coz I have a similar reaction using my bronze SC with a bar.. nicer feel compared to the 100% graphite, which is still very good. That's how I ended up on this thread. I was searching for more frames with ceramic.

    Force is a nice frame, that I'd say is better suited for flat hitters because of the thick beam. I found it sluggish at the net, and can strain the arm when doing too many fast loopy shots. It sure plows throught the ball. The thinner beam Stings were the more versatile, all court racquets so I ended up letting go the GFs.
     
    #45
  46. FedererClone

    FedererClone Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
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    ...absolutely man. I actually went out today with the Sting SC and it felt more comfortable. the force is definitely the "clumsier" of the two (for lack of a better word). it is a tad larger than 85sq/in; i concur with pshulam that this is an 88sq/in head.

    very even response on this frame. you catch the ball high on the head it still delivers with surprising accuracy, especially on serve. stringbed feels even and clean on impact. i suffer when i get too "whippy" on my forehands, something I can get away with on my Reflex/Sting SC and other thinner beams... but the Force is definitely with me on the OHBH as I can crush the ball with the weight of the frame.

    don't know if it's me but the 16/19 pattern seems to serve me well... the prestige i demo'd was a 98in/head with a 16/19 config and it somehow felt familiar.... ? would that equate over different head size?

    vic9 I have a couple of other ceramic frames. one is a yamaha 90 with adjustable slide on weights for the head (kinda retro cool) and another wilson graphite/ceramic 85 frame with blue stripes on white frame... this one somehow doesn't jive with me. It felt cheaper, maybe too much ceramic in it? not sure what the amount actually was in these frames... neither of them hit as well as the sting... I have not seen any other Sting SCs out there but am hoping to nab another one!
     
    #46
  47. FedererClone

    FedererClone Semi-Pro

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    #47
  48. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

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    Very artistic display you have there! I love the black setting. :)
     
    #48
  49. Uncle Tony

    Uncle Tony New User

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
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    Tiny, Mark, Jason, Princess and Kiop!

    ..and the Conway tapes.
     
    #49
  50. schu47

    schu47 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    299
    Great thread. I love the Wilson graphite mids from the 80s and have quite a few different ones. I had a Force at one point but found it to be too cumbersome and stiff for me.

    Here is the SC2000 and another similar one called the Tour Select SC. They are clearly variations of the Sting, which was my favorite racquet for many years. Note the distinctive bar on the throat, as well as the graphics, identical to the Sting except for the colors.

    I've found both the SC2000 and Tour Select SC to be lighter and flexier than the Sting, very nice to hit but with a little less pop. I've had a few SC2000s, but never seen any other Tour Select SCs. Anyone else have one and know anything about its history?


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #50

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