Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by VGP, Jan 20, 2009.
Nice report 1hbh!
PS85 is the GOAT IMO
So what's the story with the ps85 that TW is currently selling? Didn't see much info of it in this thread.
I've been using the latest TW PS85. At first it felt like a wet noodle
compared to the previous version, it's a little bit more flexible, but I've
gotten used to it now.
Someone scored a nice PS 85 St Vincent today for under $100.
Check completed listings on the auction site for WILSON PRO STAFF MIDSIZE 85 TENNIS RACQUET.
He wouldn't ship to Canada or I would have snagged it dammit
same here... but still good..
You guys still playing with the ps85? It is avgreat stick. I played with it back in the 80's and 90's. How does the swingweight compare with BLX90?
yes in singles definitely. my fave stick
Great stick for just hitting around or maybe playing a fun match against someone else using a vintage stick, but mine pretty much stays on display on the wall these days. There's no way I'm taking this thing into battle against real competition.
Great, honest post... bravo!
New poster here. I think this racket would be great for beginners who have the physique to handle its weight. I'm 37 and started the game about a year ago, with a Head Liquidmetal Radical mid plus. I've had to add quite a bit of weight to that racket to make it more stable and to feel what's going on.
This Pro Staff 85, with its small head size, hefty weight and low power, especially using more control oriented strings, teaches you to be as efficient and effortless as possible and use the weight of the racket in your swings. It basically helps you memorize what good strokes should feel like, and then you hopefully keep the same form when you switch to a more modern, competitive racket/strings.
My one issue with this one is that the grip sizing seems to be a bit bigger than on my other rackets, so I cant use an overgrip.
So are you saying that a currently ranked junior tournament player (let's say 14 y.o.) who STARTED out playing with a modern frame (let's say APD) can't have good strokes?
Why on earth would I (as a coach) put a PS85 into a 14 year old's hand when he/she is hitting fine with a modern racquet?
That's the dumbest thing I've heard..
No, he did not say that. Also, your 14 y.o. currently ranked junior tournament player would hardly be considered a "beginner". And last but not least, you have not offered any argument why not - instead you are only insulting the poster.
Let me ask you another question - are you sure a beginner could not learn proper tennis using a PS85? Why? Are you sure your 14 y.o. could not play well with a PS85 (given he is strong enough to handle it)? Why?
And a last thought, maybe a bit radical, but anyway: I am sure that in the 80ies and 90ies plenty of beginners have started to play tennis using a PS85 - so are you saying that they all can not play tennis now because of their racket choice when starting out? And how about all the players who have started playing using woodies?
Last but not least, if you do not have anything to add to the discussion and just want to insult me as a reply, why don't you just do me a favor and save your energy.
I'm not saying a junior tournament player should use this racket in competitions, what I'm saying is it's a great racket for perfecting your game to the highest level.
The trouble is that even beginners are expecting to play tournaments and win matches, when all they should care about is practice, practice and practice.
That's why you have these very light, big and powerful "beginner's rackets" on the market today, to try and compensate for poor technique and help people win when they should not even be playing competitive matches.
It's a bit like learning how to serve. If you, as a beginner, focus on hitting the ball in, you will never learn a decent serve because you're worried about double faults. On the other hand, if you just practice for power, focusing on feel and your action, then sooner or later you'll be able to control that power and reach a much higher level. Like anything, learning tennis is about patience.
Anyone with any tennis racquet can learn to play tennis.. I'm not doubting that. HOWEVER, you put a near 13 oz. 85 sq. in. racquet in a kid's hands and I guarantee you the learning curve is MUCH steeper than with today's racquets.
Your argument about the 80's/90's is moot in today's world of tennis AND is again answered by my previous statement. The modern racquets will help develop the "today's" game faster and better.
Do you see kids (and adults) swinging a PS85, PC600, Graphite Edge, T2000, etc. to the fullest in TODAY'S game? The answer is a resounding NO.
I've said this time and time again.... The game is FASTER, involves more POWER, needs more PHYSICAL prowess at every level. The current racquets are better in an overall sense to meet the needs of today's game.
If you've playing with one of those small head relics, then more power to you. If you like the so called "control" and "stability" of a PS85, then again... more power to you.
But, once you play at the highest level that YOU can play, then I bet you that you will be more competitive with a modern frame against a player who is ripping heavy top spin groundies and pulling you off the court with topspin.
Vehemence wins arguments, no?
so who wins
I would presume that in a kid's hand, a junior racket would even be better, but you are the coach...ATG was never referring to kids, but to beginners who " have the physique to handle its weight"
What is "today's world of tennis" for a beginner? Hitting heavy forehand topspins inside out to your partners backhand? Anyway - I am sure that modern racquets have made learning tennis easier...
No, they are a bit hard to come by and are not promoted enough these days . However, who knows if it would not benefit their game (I exclude the T2000 from that, though it is interesting to hit with it too)
...for a beginner?
I am usually playing a Tour90 these days (I like try try out all sorts of old frames and regularly play with a PS85), after many years of all sorts of rackets. It might be shocking to you, that I feel that my game has improved since I switched to it. But then my game by now means can be compared to "todays" game. I like variation in my shots, mixing up topspin, slice throw in the occasional drop shot... agreed, I can not be a reference:twisted:
If I give you my racket history and describe my play style in more detail, can you recommend a racquet to me that will improve my game? I am more than happy to try and see what comes of it. I am still convinced that moving better makes more of a difference than the choice of racquet in the end...
And lastly, thanks for having replied nicely and seriously... it is appreciated
Floydcouncil may think he disagrees with me but he doesn't. He's not arguing against my points at all.
All I'm really saying is that this is a good game development racket and great for perfecting your technique, but I wouldn't be recommending it to use in competition.
It challenges you to move better, swing better, time your shots better and it gives you exceptionally accurate and consistent feedback. Isn't that the kind of training tool you want as a player wanting to improve your game?
Interesting note for the discussion. I was watching 50,000 balls the other day. It follows four boys in the 12s to the super national championships. This movie was shot about six years ago. The winner played with a POG.
Posted in the "racquet" section but didn't get any response, so i'm trying it here. Sorry for the slight change of topic. But...
The older TW review of the original ps85 rates RDC at 66
But the current TW review of the ps85 6.0 rates RDC at 62
What's changed? And has any one bothered to update RDC for the original PS85 (taiwan, SV productions) recently?
Very interested to hear the feedbacks. Thanks.
Those links don't work for me, but yeah I've been wondering about the flex of these rackets too. I have the Chinese version.
Just fixed the links, but yes, have been wondering the discrepancy between the RDC ratings.
And if the earlier PS85 was indeed rated at 66, that doesn't seem all that soft and flexible compared to what Nadal is currently using or other present day touring pros. So maybe for the likes of Sampras, Edberg, Courier, and any other PS85 users, they've already started a trend towards really stiff racquets?
May give the TW an email just to clear things up.
Have just emailed them about this.
What strings are people using in PS85s?
I have just bought two - from 1995 the seller thinks.
Maybe champions choice? Lux m2?
I was using PB mid10s 50/52 full bed bb Alu.
I received a reply and they said the currently stocked Chinese version does indeed have a lower stiffness than the original St Vincent model they reviewed back years ago. This Chinese model does have a flex rating of 62, which is supposed to make it more arm friendly than the original one.
Thank you, how about the RDC for Taiwan made frames? It's interesting to find out that Federer actually went from the softer RDC of China ps85 to higher RDC of the K90...
Hi PSC85. Great observation re Federer. I also find it interesting he went that direction. I have some questions I'd like to ask you. When you have time, please send me an email at email@example.com. Cheers!
I didn't ask about the Taiwan made frames, is that what you have? Where did you buy it?
the early china PS 6.0s are stiffer than the latest re-issued stick.
Hi, yes I have the Taiwan made PS85 among my PS85 collection. But unsure the spec of it unfortunately. TW has plenty of PS85 threads but no where I could find a more consolidated listing of the different specs for the various PS85 versions unfortunately. :-?
The larger head size of of the K90 would probably offset some of the additional stiffness if it was even an issue.
Besides, he used used a couple of models in between the PS85 and the K90 I think.
PS85s don't seem to take well to most full poly set-ups from my experience. I use a Weiss Canon Silverstring hybrid with Gosen OG Sheep Micro in the crosses (49/52) and it plays really good. I've tried a stack of poly alternatives, none of which seemed to feel quite right for me in that frame.
The transition racket for Federer and many ps85 users was the Wilson Tour 90, correct ?
See TW review:
I am usually at 397g so the full poly has been good. I guess I will start at stock and work my way upwards, Gosen OG sounds sensible plus something yet be decided.
Full bed of VS Team at 60 or 62.
GOAT if you can afford it.
I don't think the PS85 is the same racquet as the 6.0.
They look the same[mould], but they play and feel quite differently.
Well this one is called Pro Staff 6.0 85. Made is China.
That's right. When they began putting the '6.0' on it, that's when things changed too much and it was lost.
I think the last Pro Staff 85 was made in the early 90's.
Shiny, gray primer
SFT above the W
So Taiwan without barcode on hologram and recommendation to use syngut.
Will need a new set of grommets.
I got a question about those Pro Staffs. Where does "St. Vincent" come from in the title? I notice some people call their Pro Staff 85s "St. Vincent" here.
Haha, welcome to the world of racket crazies
Try this: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/60/stvincent.html
Thought I'd revive this thread as I've just purchased a new Pro Staff 6.0 85! Super excited to try it as I've always been a Babolat Pure Drive and Aero Pro user... I'm expecting it to be hard work getting use to this little battle axe!
So is anyone else using the 85?
My 85 turned up today and I can't wait to hit with it tomorrow! It's strung with Babolat gut @ 55lbs.
Just bouncing a ball on the strings compared to my Pure Aero I can feel how solid this stick is. I'm also surprised at how the 85 head isn't actually much smaller than the Pure Aero's 100 head.
for a 100 head user, the 85 will feel very under-powered even with gut. also the top of the hoop will feel a little dead (a common problem among the old rackets, although the 85 is not the worst). I use Extreme Pro 2.0... just got an 85 and hit for a few days... my conclusion is:
1. a copoly at very low tension works better than gut... i put powercord on at 30lbs, the racket is now quite playable;
2. have to use eastern grip to make the ball go somewhere lol... my usual fh is sw;
Not sure I agree with the 2nd point. I use sw and have no trouble with the FH.
sw IS fine lol, was just saying it's low powered..... after hitting with the ps85, playing with my regular Extreme Pro 2.0 feels like cheating ha.
Got it. It certainly does not have that type of pop like modern racquets do but it sure has a sturdiness that the modern sticks lack.
perhaps that is one advantage of a box frame over a kidney. I prefer the kidney as it's more forgiving on shanks, but i think a box is more twisting-resistant.
Well I played with the racket for the first time today... I like it!
I understand what people mean when they say its underpowered, although I feel it has great plod through and after adjusting my strokes I was hitting hard and deep. I normally hit a very spinny semi western forehand but was unable to get any power doing that with this frame. Flattening out the shot helped loads and resulted in a very heavy ball being hit.
My 1HBH was very nice with this stick. Again I think it's due to the weight and plow from the racket.
Serves were hard to get used to due to the extra weight over my Pure Aero, but once I got my timing right I was hitting some mean balls!
I think the best thing about the 85 is the feel you get. Every ball feels solid and as long as I concentrated I didn't find the 85 head to be too small.
All in all its a thumbs up from me! It's night and day difference to my 'modern' Babolat Pure Aero but I think it's a delight to hit with.
Just my two cents, but I think everybody should have a small headed heavy player's frame in they're bags, and at least practice with it from time to time, just to make your game go back to basics, and clean your strokes from unnecessary bulsh%$
I'm a big fan of PS 6.0 85's, and it's always great fun to go back to it once in a while, my main stick is the 95 version of the 6.0, so the 85 is my natural choice, but there's lots of good alternative choices out there, like PC 600, Max 200, etc.
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