Wimbledon 1989 SF Edberg McEnroe stats

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by slice serve ace, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. slice serve ace

    slice serve ace Rookie

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    Volleys from this match = witchcraft. But it was pretty routine back then, i guess. Not an epic, but 3 very competitive sets, with volleys you don't see anymore in tennis. And i could watch McEnroe just serve all day.


    Edberg - McEnroe 7-5, 7-6, 7-6


    1st serve %

    edberg.. 52 ( 47, 51, 57 )
    mcenroe 49 ( 59, 44, 48 )

    low percentage and double faults, according to comentators, were mac's problems the entire tournament - he was broken 21 times before this match (however, he broke 30 times )
    edberg was serving 66% for the tournament untill this match, so he had serious dip here

    1st serve pts won %

    edberg.. 83 ( 94, 83, 77 )
    mcenroe 77 ( 74, 82, 75 )

    2nd serve pts won %

    edberg.. 53 ( 44, 59, 55 )
    mcenroe 54 ( 46, 54, 59 )

    service pts won %

    edberg.. 69 ( 68, 71, 67 )
    mcenroe 65 ( 63, 66, 67 )

    with this totals of service pts won, very low number of breaks occured. usually the serve is well protected if the server wins 70% or more

    aces

    edberg.. 4 ( 1, 0, 3 ) 1 on a second serve
    mcenroe 8 ( 4, 3, 1 ) 1 on a second serve

    comentators had 2 more aces for edberg, but mcenroe clearly touched them, so i didn't count

    double faults

    edberg.. 6 ( 3, 2, 1 )
    mcenroe 9 ( 3, 3, 3 )

    winners

    edberg.. 54 ( 12, 24, 18 )
    mcenroe 49 ( 18, 15, 16 )

    few things here
    edberg had 50 non-service winners. mcenroe was not far behind with 41. 91 non-service winner in a match in total
    edberg had 24 winners in a second set - without hitting a single ace! i don't think i ever saw such high number in a normal (tiebreak ) set

    unreturned serves

    edberg.. 41 ( 13, 9, 19 )
    mcenroe 50 ( 11, 21, 18 )

    unreturned serves %

    edberg.. 33 ( 38, 20, 41 )
    mcenroe 40 ( 34, 42, 43 )

    break points

    edberg.. 2/6 ( 2/3, 0/2, 0/1 )
    mcenroe 1/3 ( 1/1, 0/1, 0/1 )

    points won

    edberg.. 129 ( 35, 49, 45 )
    mcenroe 120 ( 31, 46, 43 )
     
    #1
  2. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Without unforced errors your stats are utterly useless.
     
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  3. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    The match was reported as 3 hours 13 minutes, pretty long for three sets.

    Just a few stats in the New York Times:

     
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  4. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    And he served in the high 60s in the final.

    I've been curious to see some numbers for Edberg on 2nd serve. He seems a possible candidate to have matches in which his success on 2nd serve was higher than on 1st. When he first came on tour I remember his 2nd serve being touted as the best in the game. But his numbers in this match are perfectly normal.

    In fact in the opening set he's 94% on 1st serve (a bit surprising) and only 44% on second.

    there were two early matches I did in which I thought there a lot of non-service winners.


    Lendl had 24 in the 3rd set of the '87 USO final vs. Wilander. He also had 6 aces.

    McEnroe had 23 in the 2nd set of the '81 Wimbledon final vs. Borg. He also had an ace.

    Both of those sets went to 7-6, btw. The '87 set had 106 points, the '81 set 96 points.
     
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  5. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    I remembert this match as being closer than most people portray. Edberg was just atouch sharper. A pass here, a volley there. Some great grass court play from both sides though.

    I was not aware of macs injury till now... Interestig.

    I think the high service winners and low aces (you May have mixed their stats in the op) are reflective of their strategy and also the high pressure they bring to bear on the returner. It wasn't good enough to just bunt it back deep....not with these two on grass!

    It probably wasn't the pinnacle of wither mans tennis , but for the tennis fan, it wAs a dramatic and tense display. All court shotmakers who both knew that they'd be forced to come up with spectacular shots to break open te match.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
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  6. slice serve ace

    slice serve ace Rookie

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    count them yourself so you can be utterly usefull and happy
     
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  7. slice serve ace

    slice serve ace Rookie

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    so 30 winners in total for lendl? i have counted 30 winners in a set (excluding extended 5th sets) only once - 4th set of the '00 AO sampras-agassi, sampras had 30, 17 of those aces
     
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  8. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    McEnroe made 23 non-service winners in another match, by Moose: second set against Wilander at '85 RG. That one was just a 7-5 set; and Mac lost it.

    Impressive number on clay, though. Don't know his aces for the set.

    I've got Kohlschreiber making 31 clean winners, including 9 aces, in a third set against Roddick that went to an 11-9 tiebreak (2008 AO)

    Becker had 28 total, including 7 aces, in the fourth set of his '95 win over Agassi, also a 7-6 set

    Sampras had 26 total, including 5 aces, in the third set of his Davis Cup win over Kafelnikov, also 7-6 (and on clay)
     
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  9. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Why would I bother doing something as pointless as compiling stats for a match from over 20 years ago? Let alone incomplete stats?
     
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  10. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Ashe had 45 winners in the first set of the '68 USO final(16 aces)
    It was a 14-12 set.

    Ralston had 33 winners in the 2nd set of the '66 W Final(5 aces)
    It was an 11-9 set.

    Court had 35 winners(no aces) & King had 32(no aces) in the 1st set of '70 W final(a 14-12 set)

    Mac had 37 winners(10 aces) in first set of '82 DC final vs Noah(a 12-10 set)

    Ashe had 28 winners(6 aces) in the 4th set of the '75 W SF vs Roche(a 9-8 set)

    he had 1 ace. Agassi had also had 23 winners in the 3rd set of '88 FO SF(no aces)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
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  11. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Here's a thought. Appreciate the work done and time spent or ignore the thread. If someone makes me dinner, I do not sneer because there was no salad course. Rude.
     
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  12. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    all the more impressive with only 91 points played. But Agassi still lost the set 7-5 to Wilander just like Mac did. Do you have the number of points played in the '85 set?
     
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  13. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Becker made 30 total winners – including 9 aces – in the second set of a 1989 Wimbledon semi against Lendl (107 points played). He lost the set 6-7.

    Lendl had 23 non-service winners, and no aces, in the second set of the 1988 U.S. Open final against Wilander (only 69 points played). He won the set 6-4.

    Connors had 22 non-service winners in each of the 7-6 sets that he took from Krickstein in their famous match (the first tiebreak went to 10-8 ). He had 2 aces in the first, 3 in the second.
     
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  14. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I had him with 23.

    some stats from NBC:

    after 2 sets
    41 winners, 14 unforced Edberg
    38 winners, 14 unforced Mac
     
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  15. Steffi-forever

    Steffi-forever Semi-Pro

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    Oh BTURNER, I would give a salad and even a soup. ;-)
     
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  16. krosero

    krosero Legend

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  17. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Sukova had 22 non service winners in the 1st set of the '84 AO final(a tiebreak set)

    Martina had 22 non service winners in the 1st set of '87 Eastbourne final, while Sukova had 21 in that set as well(another tiebreak set)
     
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  18. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Fourth set of Nadal-Berdych two days ago, Nadal was credited with 20 winners, none of which were aces (though there might be some service winners in there). We've listed some higher figures upthread, but this was a short set: 9 games, just 67 points.

    http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day14/1504ss4.html
     
    #18
  19. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Krosero, I was looking through some of my old stats and came across a shocker - Janet Newberry had 19 winners, no aces vs Martina in the 2nd set of their match at the 1976 USO. 10'games and only 54 points.
     
    #19
  20. PMChambers

    PMChambers Professional

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    I always feel a little sorry for Mac, technology changes really screwed him over. He was awesome with wood and before woven graphite (Max 200G was chop fiber resin RA 40+ so like wood) but once the modern graphite racquet was developed and the Mid born, power players like Lendl had a better advantage, though in Lendl's case he did well against Mac early in their career as well. I saw Mac play Chang one year and it was disappointing watch Chang topspin lob nearly every passing shot, that would have been nearly impossible with wood without good setup. I've seen him play live a few times and he really struggled to handle the power hitting in the late 80's and early 90's. He could have dominated or stayed more competitive at top up to the 90's if wood was compulsory. It would be like dropping Laver or Rosewall into 2010, it's not their game. Muscles Rosewall vs Muscles Nadal, Nadal Muscles win.
     
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  21. Frankc

    Frankc Semi-Pro

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    Agreed, PM... I may be wrong, but have not seen that thought expressed often enough. Scanlon, in his book, talks of players caught in the tech change to carbon fiber. I still cannot comprehend when I watch vintage matches what Mac could do with a wood frame - power, touch - all timing...
     
    #21
  22. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    @krosero @slice serve ace
    Came across another high winner set for Edberg. In the first set of the 87 AO semi vs Masur(a 6-2 set) he had 20 non service winners and 1 ace. Only 69 pts played.
    For the match he had 58 winners, most from groundstrokes(20 fh winners!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
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  23. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    can't believe I forgot this:

    Mecir had 25 winners in the first set and 23 in the fourth vs Wilander at 86 USO. no aces in either set,
     
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