Winner takes all. Classic series 1970-1971

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by urban, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    pc 1 mentioned in another thread the Classic series of 1970 and 1971, which was a one of a kind series of challenge matches for 10.000 $, which were only for the winner, while the loser got nothing. At the begin of the tennis boom, promoters like McCall, Hunt and Podesta tried to gain public support and attention on the US tv market, by using new experimental formats (or better by going back to formats used on the old pro tour). The best 10 pros of the year before were sampled. The series was played at the big indoor venues of the USA, like Madison Square Garden, Philadephia Spectrum, Boston Garden and others. The format was a bit strange, basically it was a round robin, the winner would take the next challenge by a player next in line, the winner of that match would face another challenge and so on. The loser could qualify in a qualifying match for one of the next challenges. The best four players of the competition would play a semifinal and final at Madison Square Garden, the winner of the final would get 35.000 $. In all, some 210.000 $ were on the line, an unheard sum in those days, far and away more money than to win on the majors circuit. The Wim winner got some 6.000 $.
    Here are my incomplete lists (for 1970 there were more matches played, which are not documented in the World of Tennis yearbook):

    1970 Jan-July 1970:

    New York: Gonzales- Laver 7-5,3-6,2-6,6-3,6-2.
    Detroit: Gonzales-Newcombe 6-4,6-4,6-2.
    Miami, Fl.: Emerson-Gonzales 6-3,6-2,6-3.
    Los Angeles: Emerson-Rosewall 7-5,4-6,7-5,6-4.
    Brisbane: Emerson-Gimeno 9-7,1-6,4-6,6-3,6-2.
    Dayton: Stolle- Emerson 7-5,7-5,6-4.
    Los Angeles: Okker-Stolle 6-3,6-3,2-6,6-1.
    West Orange: Laver-Roche 6-2,6-4,6-2. Laver-Gimeno 5-7, 5-7,6-1,6-3,6-2. Rosewall-Newcombe 5-7,7-5,6-1,6-2.
    New York: Rosewall -Stolle 5-7, 6-0,6-4,6-4. Okker-Roche 6-3,3-6,7-5,3-6,6-4. Rosewall-Okker 6-2,6-4,6-2.

    Semifinals New York, Jun. 2 and 5:
    Laver-Gonzales 6-3,6-3,6-1.
    Rosewall-Emerson 4-6,6-1,6-4,4-6,7-5.

    Final New York, July 16:
    Laver-Rosewall 6-4,6-3,6-3.

    1971:

    Matches were played between Jan and March. Because Laver won all the matches i give the name of the opponent:

    New York: Rosewall 6-3,6-4,7-5.
    Rochester: Newcombe 6-4,6-2,4-6,5-7,6-4.
    Boston: Roche 7-5,4-6,3-6,7-5,6-1.
    Philadelphia: Emerson, 6-2,6-3,7-5.
    New York: Ashe 7-5,6-4,7-5.
    Detroit: Okker 5-7,5-7,6-2,6-2,6-2.
    New York: Ashe 3-6,6-3,6-3,6-4.
    Inglewood: Taylor 6-3,7-5,6-2.
    New York:Okker 6-1,6-4,6-3.
    New York: Ralston 3-6,6-1,6-4,6-3.
    New Haven: Emerson 6-3,5-7,6-3,3-6,6-3.

    To decide the semifinal line-up outside the Laver-matches, the following matches were played:
    Ralston bt. Roche. Ralston bt. Ashe. Ashe bt. Rosewall, Okker bt- Newcombe. Emerson bt. Taylor.

    Semifinals, New York:
    Laver-Ralston 6-3,6-4,7-5.
    Okker-Emerson 6-4,2-6,4.6,6-3,6-4.

    Final, New York:
    Laver-Okker 7-5,6-2,6-1.

    Of the 210.000 $ prize money, Laver got 160.000 $, Okker 20.000 $, and Emerson and Ralston took 15.000 $ each.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
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  2. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    I remember reading that in the next to last match that Laver played against Okker that Okker claimed he played as well as he ever played, perhaps better than he ever played. Yet Okker lost the match in three sets, winning only eight games. I wish I could have seen that match.

    Great post Urban.
     
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  3. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Gonzales defeats Newk 4, 4, 2: 42-year-old grandpop versus the 26-year-old kid in 1970.

    Looks like Emmo wasn't too shabby either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
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  4. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    It is to be said, that according to Newk's own account in the 1970 book 'Tennis the Australian way', he was flown in to Detroit directly from Sydney (where he played the AO), and he had jetlag and problems with changing from grass to indoor. In those days, players had no standardized schedules, and had to adapt to new surfaces from one day to another. Still the showing of Ganzales was great, and also Emmo was certainly no pushover.
     
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  5. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    One of my fantasy match ups is Federer against Gonzalez, Wimbledon final, both are 27. It would be interesting to see how Federer would try to handle the great Gonzalez serve on grass.
     
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  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Thanks so much for those scores, I was looking for those.

    Interesting that the New York Times mentions a tiebreak being played in Gonzales-Laver when the first set reached 5-all. They don't say what the tiebreak score was or anything else about it, just that it saved time (they do mention that it was a 12-point system).
     
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  7. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Apparently all the tiebreakers in this event were played at 5 games all, in both '70 and '71, according to articles I'm finding in the NY Times.

    And the opponents switched serve after every point, for example in the fifth-set tiebreak played by Rosewall and Emerson in '70. The tiebreak score itself was 7-5, with Rosewall taking the last four points.

    I think the tiebreak sets should be written out as 6-5 instead of 7-5; all this was new back then and one of the articles explains that a tiebreak "counted for two games."

    It makes me wonder how many "7-5" sets from that era were actually tiebreak sets.

    One tiebreak was played at 6 games all (maybe because the match itself was only best-two-of-three, so there were no concerns about time?), when Ralston beat Ashe to qualify for the 1971 semifinals.

    The score was written out as 6-2, 4-6, 7-6, and the tiebreak score was 8-6 (with the players alternating service after every point, and Ralston saving a match point at 6-5 on Arthur's serve).

    Don't know how many of the qualifying matches you have, but I found a few of them (on the other hand the Times reported nothing on the actual challenge matches in Los Angeles and Brisbane).

    On May 21 in West Orange, Laver d. Gimeno 4-6, 4-6, 6-1, 6-3, 6-2.

    Rosewall d. Newcombe 5-7, 7-5, 6-1, 6-2 the same day. The first two sets were described as finishing in tiebreaks.

    The Times had this as 6-1 in the fourth.

    The first semi was on June 2, the second on June 5.

    6-3 in the first per the Times.

    Laver lost the tiebreak 4-7.

    7-3 in the tiebreak.

    7-2 and 8-6 in the tiebreaks.

    Laver lost the tiebreak 5-7.

    Tiebreak score was 7-4.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
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  8. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the valuable additions, I will put them into my previous posts. I must say i am a bit surprised by the use of tiebreak in 1970. I had never suggested, that behind the 7-5 scores were in fact tiebreak scores. I know, it was used first in 1966 at Newport, where entrepeneur Jimmy van Alen put his 'baby' into operation. I think it was played at 5 all and to 5-4, resp. 5-3 or 5-2 in the tiebreak itself. For the open era, i thought it was first introduced at the Philadephia US pro indoor in 1970 (in the important event run by the Fernbergers). And it was originally played at 6 all, but to 5-4 in the breaker itself. Laver himself was the driving force, to play it to 7, and with a 2 points separation. He did himself no good (jokingly said), because under the older system he would have won the 1972 Dallas event over Rosewall.
     
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  9. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks Krosero and Urban for clarifying the tiebreak scores.
     
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  10. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Just note that I made a minor correction. Ralston-Ashe was '71, not '70.
     
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  11. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    That's what I'd always heard, too. But maybe the Tennis Champions doesn't count for historical marks like that because it wasn't made of "official" matches.
     
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  12. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe it wasn't "official" but it was a legit tournament, not an exhibition. It should count.
     
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  13. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    And one last note, the Times has this as 6-2 in the second set.
     
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  14. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I've just found this in the Times, but they don't mention any tiebreak in the first set? Could it have been at 7-all? Or maybe the set was played out?

    It's the only extended set in the whole series either year, and the only match not played in the U.S.
     
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  15. jeffreyneave

    jeffreyneave Rookie

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    other matches in 1971

    to decide the semi-final line these other matches not involving laver were played

    ralston beat roche and then ralston beat ashe
    ashe beat rosewall
    okker beat newcombe
    emerson beat taylor

    jeffrey
     
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  16. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks Jeffrey. Do you have the scores of the above matches?
     
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  17. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    That would be a very exciting fantasy match. Fed would probably return the Gonzalez serve as well as anyone did, or like he returns Karlovich and Roddick, except that Gorgo would be there for alot of those volleys with his exceptional speed and agressive game.

    The formats, scoring, and outcomes for these winner takes all classic series from 1970 to 1971 are very interesting. Thanks for posting. Are there any books written about all the happenings related in scheduling, running, and taking part in these events. Sounds like a very interesting time to be involved in tennis, sorta like a scrambing circus.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
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  18. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    For the political struggles of the early open era, there is the book of Richard Evans, 30 years of open tennis. Evans worked some time for the ATP and was involved in those struggles between ITF, ATP and WCT. Good reads about some aspects of this period are the books by David Gray, Shades of Gray, and Herbert Warren Wind. But a book about all the experimental formats, the implications of new material, the new big money and the different circuits and series is yet to be written. The best inside look is still the book by Arthur Ashe and Frank Deford, Portrait in Motion, about the years 1973-74.
     
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  19. SgtJohn

    SgtJohn Rookie

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    Interesting article (St.Pet. Times, 19/12/1971)

    "The astinishing string of wins over Newcombe, Rosewall, Ashe, Taylor, Ralston and Okker has been regarded as one of the most remarkable feats in tennis history, but Laver had a rather surprising reaction.
    "The money of course was astonishing", he said, " but actually the classic wrecked me. The mental strain of getting up for each succeeding match, up to a fever pitch 13 times with no left-up, affected my play later in the year. By the time we finished at Wimbledon, my nerves, my mental condition was bad. That's why I walked away from the Toronto tournament after I lost in the first round in August, and why I went home, and why I decided then and there that I would pass up Forest Hills.""
     
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  20. Tomaz Bellucci

    Tomaz Bellucci Rookie

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    Thans, me too.
     
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  21. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    This might help to explain Laver's poor comparatively poor 1970 and 1971.
     
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  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    What grass? former or current? there is a lot of difference, IMO...can you see the difference?
     
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  23. robow7

    robow7 Professional

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    I do hope this was on the up and up because many of those so called winner take all tourneys in the late 70's and early 80's often had under the table prize money sharing going on, otherwise many of the top stars wouldn't participate.
     
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  24. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    Laver had turned .
    The dollars were long before slams .
    This appointment in 1971 & 1972 was the most important event of the year .
    Best of Wimbledon & Forest Hills .

    Here came dollars , in the slams ... only in the crumbs to the pigeons .
     
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  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    KG, The most important tournament of 1971 was Wimbledon, the second best probably the WCT Finals at Dallas.
     
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  26. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    For the 1970 Version additional Information about scores and circumstances (the final at MSG had over 10000 People in attendance) see the Italian webside under goat link:
    http://tennismylife.altervista.org/
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  27. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Still interested in the stories behind these early times leading upto the formation of the ATP 9/1972. Learning about the earlier pro tennis eras where the "barn storming" tours were big money events was very interesting reads. These organizing promoters were Riggs and then Kramer with such great books as "Court Hustler" and "The Game" respectively.

    Urban had the best prior response with this outstanding summary:

    "For the political struggles of the early open era, there is the book of Richard Evans, 30 years of open tennis. Evans worked some time for the ATP and was involved in those struggles between ITF, ATP and WCT. Good reads about some aspects of this period are the books by David Gray, Shades of Gray, and Herbert Warren Wind. But a book about all the experimental formats, the implications of new material, the new big money and the different circuits and series is yet to be written. The best inside look is still the book by Arthur Ashe and Frank Deford, Portrait in Motion, about the years 1973-74."
     
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  28. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    BTW I like this summary from author Bill Walsh on Arthurs book:

    "Portrait in Motion," essentially a diary kept by Arthur Ashe in 1973 and 1974, captures life on the pro tennis circuit better than any other book I've read. The tour has changed a lot since then, of course, but his description of week-to-week ups and downs (most weeks, of course, end with a loss) holds up well. There are plenty of flashes of Ashe's political consciousness as well, but his frank discussion of his agnosticism doesn't quite match the spirituality he describes in later books.
     
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  29. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I think he would look at the chalk dust, frown, and walk to the other side of the court.
     
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  30. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    And then hit some of these...





     
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  31. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Is below the book ?

    Open Tennis: 1968-1989 Paperback – August 1, 1990
    by Richard Evans

    An account of the changes in the tennis world since 1968 when the world's major championships became open to the professionals. The author, a tennis journalist, examines the the politics, in-fighting, commercial pressures and the benefits as well as many of the great open matches, including classic Wimbledon finals. The book portrays the phenomenon of professional tennis and the increases in prize money and looks at some of the famous players. It is published to coincide with the 20th anniversary of the French Open and Wimbledon. The author also wrote the authorized biography of John McEnroe.
     
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  32. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Amazon did nt the the David Gray Shades book but did have the
    Game, Set, and Match: The Tennis Boom of the 1960s and '70s Kindle Edition
    by Herbert Warren Wind

    From Rod Laver’s amateur Grand Slam in 1962 to the first US Open held at the National Tennis Center in Flushing Meadows, legendary sportswriter Herbert Warren Wind captures the grace and drama of modern tennis in this brilliant collection drawn from the pages of the New Yorker.

    The era’s biggest names, including Margaret Court, Chris Evert, John Newcombe, Arthur Ashe, and Pancho Gonzales, thrill the crowds of Roland Garros, Wimbledon, and Forest Hills, and America’s Davis Cup team battles patriotic linesmen and frenzied fans in an epic showdown against the Romanians in Bucharest. In “Mrs. King versus Mr. Riggs,” Wind paints a witty and evocative portrait of Billy Jean King’s historic beatdown of Bobby Riggs, and in “Forest Hills and the Final Between Connors and Borg,” he vividly recounts one of the wildest and woolliest tournaments in the sport’s history.

    Rendered with the same authority and eloquence that led the New York Times to declare Wind the dean of American golf writers, these dispatches from center court testify to the celebrated journalist’s passion and versatility.
     
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  33. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Yes, Joe, those books i recommended. Thanks for the comments here. For the early open era, the books of Rex Bellamy, Game, Set and match, and Love Thirty, are brilliant books. I am not a native English speaker, but in my opinion, Bellamy had the best style of all Tennis writers. For the 70s and 80s Peter Bodo, Courts of Babylon, is also a good read.
     
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  34. timnz

    timnz Legend

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    Newspaper articules in 1971 rated Laver's Champions classic as one of his greatest achivements. Given what he achieved in this career - it has to rate extremely high in the list of event statuses for 1971.
     
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  35. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    timnz, This might be but the series was still regarded behind Wimbledon and Dallas and maybe US Open at that time. But I agree it was one of Laver's greatest personal feats.
     
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  36. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, if he can get a racquet on it. Sometimes, you just have to wait till you can get a racquet on it.
     
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  37. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I really like the Italian commentator in this one after Fed hits the second backhand winner saying: "Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh."
     
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  38. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    Event number one in 1970 & 1971.
    > Wimbledon & Us Open
    >> Dallas
     
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  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    KG, Do you really believe that? Which proofs for that claim do you have? The 1971 issue might have been an important event (below Wimbledon, WCT. US Open and AO though) but 1970...?
     
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  40. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Was it televised?
     
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