Wise Update and an Experiment

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Rabbit, May 21, 2010.

  1. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Update

    Need it or not (and I didn't) I went ahead and put some blue Loctite on the threads of my diablo. I had borrowed the tube from a friend at work and I need to get it back to him. :) Still zero problems with the diablo or any other facet of the machine.


    and now for the experiment...

    OK, so I did find that 60 on a constant pull electric tensioner is a wee bit on the tight side for me. In consideration of that, I have begun to find my new number. I have temporarily ceased installation of gut until I find my new number as it does get expensive. I have some Prince Lightning XX 17 and decided to give that a whirl. I strung it at 60 with prestretch and without. I could tell a definite difference, but it was still too tight either way.

    I backed tension down to 55 on one frame and 52 on another. I was a little worried since we were playing Senior state and I was a bit at sea with the new tensioner. But, we hit early and as luck would have it, 55 felt really good.

    I was stringing a frame this morning. I was stringing a set of Prince Lightning XX 17 in a C10 and decided to see how much tension drop there was in lockout mode. The tension was set at 52 and I pressed the button. Tension got to 52 and the machine beeped. I watched the tension number. It almost immediately dropped 4 pounds. This intrigued me, so I let it sit some more. Tension finally settled at 44 pounds. Now I wouldn't leave a string untensioned quite that long, but it did make an impression on me nonetheless. I put it back in constant pull mode and re-pulled.

    I continue to love the Wise and recommend it to anyone looking for a realtively cheap upgrade.
     
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  2. jnd28

    jnd28 Rookie

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    I did that by accident when I first got my Wise. I mistakenly switched it out of constant pull and freaked out when I watched the tension read out go from 58 to 53 in a very short period of time.

    This was with Weiss Cannon Explosiv! string which is pretty stretchy or at least it is initially. It took me a sec to figure out what I had done but it left a pretty strong impression.

    I never would have known that the time between the locking out and the clamping off with a lockout was so important. I was ( still am really) a novice stringer and know for sure that when I was using the lockout that my string jobs suffered due to my non attention to that.

    The constant pull of either an electronic tension head or a drop weight has to be more accurate than a lockout - unless of course the stringer is very very experienced. And thinking about it it probably would not have been the same issue in the old days when the players who would notice the difference, for the most part played with gut.

    JND28
     
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  3. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You guys are killing me. OK when you tension with a lockout the string starts at the reference tension and starts dropping immediately. So what? I have a Wise just like you guys and I've seen what happens and how fast it happens. Wow amazing!

    BUT, what happens when you leave the Wise on constant pull. You pull tension, the Wise goes beep-beep, and you clamp the string. Gosh I wonders what happens next. Do you think your constant pull is still pulling through the clamp? Some people disable the beep or clamp off the string before the beep. What happens then? Constant pull is not all it is built up to be guys, but it sure has us fooled.

    Let's look at a lockout. That cheap US invention piece of junk. You pull tension and when it gets to the reference tension it stops. No matter how long it takes you the clamp the string off or how fast you clamp the string off the string is stretched the same amount every time. Ever think about that? If you use a constant pull depending on how long or how fast it takes you to clamp the string the string is stretched a different amount, and may or may not ever even get to the reference tension. Seriously guys which do you think is the more accurate?

    Don't get me wrong I use the constant pull but not because I think it is more accurate or faster.

    Irvin
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2010
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  4. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

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    Very nice observation Irvin. I've thought of the same, just thought it would be foolish to post. Irvin just to reiterate you're saying that the string is continually stretched until it's reached its maximum stretch whether clamped or not? Right? And so then why do you use constant pull? I am sure it's at least a bit more accurate to the reference tension.
     
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  5. MayDay

    MayDay Semi-Pro

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    Lockout or constant pull - it doesn't make a difference after you clamp the string. After every pull, you should be clamping in consistent times regardless which machine you use. Both will provide consistent string jobs.
     
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  6. jnd28

    jnd28 Rookie

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    Gee I kinda thought that the longer the string length the more the tension loss would be. But I guess you are right im a dummy.
    Seems to me my string bed is way more consistent with the constant pull I admitted that I am no pro stringer just a dumb schlub who cant understand anything.

    I wonder why anyone would possibly use constant pull since they are so expensive but they are slower and dont do a better job. Lots of dummies out here I guess. Cant think of any other reason.
     
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  7. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    No, don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking a lockout. I think it is just as consistent. But, in the conversion from a lockout to an electronic tension head, I was definitely seeing a different reference tension. There is as much difference between the Wise and Neos as there was between the Neos and Gamma dropweight I had.

    As far as clamping, in lockout mode, the drop in tension is immediate. I posted this merely as an experience and not to disparage anyone's machine. I thought it noteworthy. I really and truly didn't mean to offend anyone's sensibilities.

    I do think in terms of consistency, electronic tensioner > lockout > dropweight. But again, it's all what you get used to, I've just been lucky enough to have used 4 different types of machines in 25 years of stringing.

    Tension is, after all is said and done, just a number that you need to remember.
     
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  8. jnd28

    jnd28 Rookie

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    I thought that my point was pretty clear as well. It is still my belief that its easier to get a quality consistent string job with a constant pull. You can get equal results with the lockout you just have to pay way more attention and as a novice stringer I found that eye opening.
    Learning to string pretty much on my own through trial error and reading, I had never read anything regarding the timing of clamping after the lock out. Seeing the digital readout presented that finding very clearly for me.

    JND28
     
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  9. TenniseaWilliams

    TenniseaWilliams Professional

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    The difference is where the majority of the string elongation occurs - inside the racquet (lowering the final tension) or on a tension head (thinning the string)?

    String elongation falls off quickly, (although it never actually stabilizes) which is why clamp timing consistency is more critical if the string spends less time on a constant pull tension head. (slower stringers will be less effected)

    A lockout doesn't suffer from this inconsistency, but more than makes up for it by letting longer strings drop more tension because they will elongate more. Your clamp timing still counts since the string will be much shorter clamped, but longer strings in the frame will also have dramatically less tension than the short ones.

    To sum it up, a constant pull will tension different length strings more consistently than a lockout.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2010
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  10. lcklar

    lcklar New User

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    Props to the WISE-2086

    I have (2) machines a Gamma 6004 w/WISE head tensioning and a Babolat Star-5. Recently I strung both (with Wilson Hollowcore 16g) at same tension of 60 lbs. and was very interested to notice that the WISE machine went from 72-67 (RDC reference 5-lbs. loss) of tension over night whereas the Babolat Star-5 went from 78 to 69 (RDC reference 9-lbs. loss).

    Not sure why the WISE held it's tension better but both were checked within a 24 hour period, with (2) identical frames and "no" differences in stringing style (both in 2 piece). Any light on this would be greatly appreciated!
     
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  11. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Just to clarify are your numbers representing stringbed stiffness? If so although the gamma/wise combo dropped less the racquet strung on the babolat had a higher initial stiffness and finished with a higher stiffness despite a greater difference in drop over time. Maybe it has something to do with the initial figure on the Star 5 being higher so the string had less remaining elongation and therefore the tension dropped further?

    Ash
     
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