World Class Juniors

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by krizzle, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. krizzle

    krizzle Rookie

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    What NTRP are world-class juniors at in the under 16 age group?
     
    #1
  2. scraps234

    scraps234 Hall of Fame

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    most of them are proble 5.0
     
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  3. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    I am not sure what you mean by a "world class junior" under 16.


    Nadal was the ninth player in the open era to win an ATP match before the age of 16. That would make him a 6.0+ at 16.

    The top 10 USTA 14 and under juniors are 5.0

    The top 10 USTA 16 and under juniors are 5.5+
     
    #3
  4. krizzle

    krizzle Rookie

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    I meant like the top 10. How about juniors that will grow up and become about 80 in the world?
     
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  5. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    all depends but usually 5.0 -5.5

    I witnessed a good 4.5 club player beat the crap out of a top 10 16 year old from texas. it was funny seeing the kid get all pissed off.
     
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  6. polski

    polski Semi-Pro

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    Based on the USTA's website, any "world class" player is a 7.0. It doesn't really specify anything for juniors because officially juniors cannot rate themselves.

    However, being realistic I would assume that a 15 year old playing and winning matches at Kalamazoo last month would be able to hang with most 5.0 & 5.5's & probably win regularly.

    If you're talking about a kid that will be top-80 in the world, that is a 7.0 by definition.
     
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  7. krizzle

    krizzle Rookie

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    Is there any hope for me?
    I'm just barely 15. My coach rates me at around a 4.0. I played for half a year at the age of 6 or 7, and I picked tennis up seriously in November.
    Stats on my strokes:
    Forehand:
    4.0-4.5
    Backhand:
    3.5
    Movement:
    5.0-5.5
    First serve:
    3.0
    Second Serve:
    2.5
    Return of serve:
    3.5-4.0
    Volleys:
    3.5-4.0
    Before I told my coaches how long i've been playing, I made them guess. All three told me that most likely i've been playing almost 4 years.
    Qualitative analysis on my strokes:
    Consistent forehand with good power and directional control.
    Shabby backhand that's sometimes "on" and more often than not, "off."
    My serves need working on, because I rarely have access to courts outside of my tennis lessons.
    I've got good tactics.
    My fitness is good and hopefully improving all the time.
    I've got access to a good wall.
    I go to a gym.
    I'm 5-5, about 150 pounds. 22% body fat. I'm aiming for 10% by March 1. Good agility, speed, and endurance.
    For the next few months, I'll be practicing something like this:
    Monday/Friday
    Crossfit
    School
    Tennis 4-6 PM
    Tuesday/Thursday
    Crossfit
    School
    Hitting against a wall 4-6ish
    Wednesday:
    School
    Tennis 4-6 PM
    Saturday:
    light hitting
    Sunday:
    Rest

    Is it possible for me to become a pro who makes a good earning (net >150k) a year?
     
    #7
  8. Ventolin

    Ventolin Banned

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    It's possible, but its gonna take many years of working your ass off.

    Realistically, if you are extremely talented and practice like a maniac every single day you could be playing main draw futures at around 20-21, and challengers at around 23-24. I mean if you head straight to a full time tennis academy (for example) and dont leave there until the pros there tell you you're ready to start travelling to futures events and trying to qualify full time.

    But challenger level players dont usually make more than 100k a year. If you manage to make it to the challenger level its a different ball game altogether to reach the main tour. You need to be physically gifted, in supreme shape physically, rock solid in every aspect of the game, and unbelievably focused, day-in, day-out.

    You would almost certainly be classified as late bloomer. Its rare, but it happens. Look at Dustin Brown, Wayne Arthurs, Marc Giquel for example. On the othe end of the spectrum, a guy like Kristian Pless, who was no.1 in the world as a junior and was certainly pro level at 16 (good enough to hold an ATP ranking), never managed any solid years at the ATP level, spent most of his career stuck in the challengers.

    Bottom line, if you're doing it hoping to make a good living for a young man, there are far easier ways to do it, and many ways that are more of a sure thing. If you're doing it because you love the game, then I say go right ahead, just dont let your education fall by the wayside, because its a gigantic risk.

    Also, if you take a look at the rankings, many of the curent top 10 juniors are actually 16. Jason Kubler was no.1 in the juniors at 16 and got dominated by Ljubicic in the first round of the Aus Open this year.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
    #8
  9. Wondertoy

    Wondertoy Professional

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    Have any of you people looked at the NTRP rating guide? It's all about a player's efficiency at strokes, spins, strategy, etc. It doesn't really scale playes on power, winning and heavy spin production that many of you want to grade players on.
     
    #9
  10. warmsurfing

    warmsurfing Rookie

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    Hi,
    When Nadal was 16,I wonder how did he get his ranking so high to get in the main draw of an ATP event?
     
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  11. himynameisNIKE

    himynameisNIKE Professional

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    because he was really ****ing good :)
     
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  12. LeftyServe

    LeftyServe Semi-Pro

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    Nadal played a few Futures events at 15 1/2, and then received a wild card into the Mallorca tournament just before his 16th birthday. This was at the time Mallorca had an ATP event. He was ranked 762 at the time. He played Futures and a few Challengers (all in Spain) for most of the year past that...Demonstrates the huge advantage aspiring players from Spain have because of the sheer number of pro events held in that country (practically a Futures event somewhere every week).
     
    #12
  13. warmsurfing

    warmsurfing Rookie

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    That explains everything !
    If one lives in a country with very few pro events,he can just forget about it.
    Then again,the US is so big,why has so few pro players ?
     
    #13
  14. get it in

    get it in Rookie

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    That's a complex answer. One big reason is because tennis is not as big in the US as baseball, football, and basketball. The reality is that you can make more money in minor league baseball than you could in minor league (futures) tennis- and you don't have to travel around the world most of the year. Granted, some people enjoy the travel. It's just very expensive to produce a pro tennis player. You can get a lot of training for free/low cost in baseball or football (think college scholarships) for sure. It doesn't have much to do with Americans not having talent or skills. It's just that the road to a pro tennis career is very long and fraught with uncertainty. That shouldn't deter anyone and for those truly interested, they should continue in it.
    I'll finish with this: Andre Agassi's dad once said that if he could do it over again, he would have had Andre play baseball. We're all glad he didn't but think about the implications of that statement.
     
    #14
  15. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    If Mike Agassi really did say that I find it sad. If "he" did it all over again... I was hoping he'd say, I'll let Andre decide what he wants to do. If Andre did it all over again, I wonder what path he'd really pick.
     
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  16. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Agassi's dad has said that a few times. He said today it is so much more competitive with global players that the chances of making money in tennis is tiny compared to back when he decided to make Andre a player.

    Here is one reference to his comments:

    By Tom Perrotta...."In a recent conversation, Mike Agassi, Andre Agassi’s father, told me that he wouldn’t want his children to play tennis today. “I’d go after golf and baseball,” Agassi says. “Golf has longevity, and in baseball if you lose, you aren’t the loser. The team loses.”"

    But he does not sound like he would change a thing about his methods....he would have had Andre hitting and fielding 2500 baseballs a day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
    #16
  17. Tennis_Stringman

    Tennis_Stringman Rookie

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    I heard Mike Agassi speak at the Easter Bowl some years ago. Yes he did mention golf as the preferred route as the career is longer. In his book he said he trained Agassi to S&V like the previous great and told Nick that he was disappointed that Andre never came in anymore and wanted him to attack the net more.

    Let me say this, no one in his (rational) mind would choose men's Pro tennis as a pro sport. It's too damn expensive, no safety net if you get injured, and too competitive worldwide. Choose a sport that is sponsored and paid for by the school system like baseball, basketball or football. Golf is like tennis but at least you have an idea when you get to go home unlike tennis where you have to pay exhorbitant change fees when you bomb out.
     
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  18. wbdad

    wbdad New User

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    Pro tennis is a tough gig period. Nowdays, a 150 ranked player can barely make a living. If you get injured, your screwed. If you have true passion for the game and have the talent, athletic abilities than i say go for it.
     
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  19. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    that's especially true for the US, many European and other 'richer' nations. I think $ 50-100K net a year is still a whole lot for someone in China/India/Africa..
     
    #19
  20. jdawgg

    jdawgg Rookie

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    Just think how amazingly good at something you have to be to be 150th in the world at anything... the 150th best player at baseball/football/soccer is probably making millions :?
     
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  21. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    if money is the goal, then tennis is not the sport to get your kid into..

    Just look up the money list for the ATP and the PGA tour.
    PGA 100 ranked = 840K in 2009
    ATP 100 ranked = ~200K

    PGA 150 ranked = 450K in 2009
    ATP 150 ranked = 50-100K
     
    #21
  22. warmsurfing

    warmsurfing Rookie

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    Do you think for women try to get into WTA is easier than men try to play ATP?
     
    #22
  23. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    I think its both difficult. Even the women are getting bigger and stronger nowdays. The other countries are simply "hungrier".
     
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  24. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    I know my son has a better chance of winning the lottery twice than making it as a pro tennis player.I think my daughters chances are a very very very small percent better.The depth on the mens side is ridiculous!!!!
     
    #24
  25. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Ehem! Physical size is much less important in golf and tennis than it is in football, basketball and baseball. If you're a gifted athlete and 5'8", 150lbs, you're not likely to go far in football or basketball (unless you're Spud Web). You'll have a slightly better, but still remote, chance in baseball..
     
    #25
  26. get it in

    get it in Rookie

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    So true. I think baseball players that are in the top 150 in salary get paid close to 1 million a year- guaranteed. Football contracts are not guaranteed and the sport has a very high injury and dropout rate. Baseball is really competitive, though. Guys that are starters on div 1 teams like Texas still don't even make the minor leagues. Golf is so expensive to start. My daughter was taking golf lessons and it cost me quite a bit of money. Good thing she figured out early that it wasn't for her.
    Regardless of money, if you have a passion for it then you should do it. Never pursue a field simply for the sake of money. It's not worth it. Find what you like to do and do it to the best of your ability.
     
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