WORLD NO. 1 (by year)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by hoodjem, Oct 30, 2009.

  1. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Again, 21 stations does not constitute a network broadcast.
     
  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Lovely story.Never heard about.

    Who was the most famous personality who played tennis at a certain competitive level? Jimmy Carter was hooked on tennis, I know.France former prime minister Jacques Chaban Delmas won some national events when he was starting his political career, but never got highly ranked enough.

    John Alexander is now a MP.Buster Mottram and Adriano Panatta have ran for City Council seats, although in two very different ( opposite) parties.

    Maybe John mc Enroe, who is a staunch democrat will give it a try at politics.He could turn out being the most famous tennis player/politican ever...
     
  3. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    boredone3456, You made the point. Some of his statements and answers seem to be trolling. But at least I must concede that Dan never uses insulting words. I just ask myself if Dan is aware that he sometimes is trolling or if he is not aware...
     
  4. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    The answer is simple. Boredone did not establish his point.
    The 1954 Rose Bowl Parade was only broadcast on 21 stations, and was not a national broadcast.
    End of argument.
     
  5. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Dan, that is not quite right. Prince Philipp showed up at the Hoad-Cooper final 1957 and attended the victory ceremony. I have seen pictures of this. The Queen never has been especially Wimbledon friendly. She gave Laver the trophy in 1962 and Virginiai Wade in 1977. It could be that she was present as a young girl togther with her King Father, when Kramer won in 1947. Or was it Princess Margaret, maybe both young girls.
     
  6. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Apparently the Queen attended the 1957 final and watched Hoad beat Cooper from the stands, Prince Philip presenting the trophy.
    Her aversion to Wimbledon is known to stem from the 1926 men's doubles, in which her father competed, and insisted on not receiving any special treatment by the other players. He became the "target" in a one-sided beating, and I think that the other players should have ignored his advice, and given him some room to shine. Better business.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  7. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    The Queen avoided Wimbledon like the plague until 1957, when the presence of Hoad in the final was too much of an attraction to stay away any longer.
     
  8. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Hall of Fame

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    I established my point quite clearly, that your statement was wrong. Just because you did not like what you read does not mean I did not establish a valid point.

    End of argument.
     
  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    What young woman in the 50´s could just let Hoad split away?
     
  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    How can somebody dare to compare Hingis to Henin?
     
  11. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Henin>Hingis and the gap between them is much wider than Kafelnikov and Kodes.
     
  12. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Hall of Fame

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    Yes how can somebody think Hingis is on the same level as Henin, I honestly don't see it myself...especially when 3 of her majors came during the weakest year of the 90s. But hey..thats some posters for you. Goodbye now.
     
  13. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    The 1954 Rose Bowl was not an NBC network broadcast.
    The 1955 Hoad/Trabert match WAS, and attracted over 10 million viewers, the FIRST mass TV audience for tennis.
    Historic.
    Vice-President Nixon knew a good thing and tagged along with Hoad and company.
     
  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    wake me up the day the Belgian wins a Wimbledon title.Good evening.
     
  15. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Wake me up when Hingis win 7 slams.
     
  16. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Guys,

    Hingis and Henin were both great players and in my opinion both were fairly close. It's not exactly that they have a huge gap in playing level.

    Here's the records for both.

    http://www.wtatennis.com/players/player/3491

    http://www.wtatennis.com/players/player/3541

    Overall for singles career Henin has an edge but it's not a huge edge in my opinion. Both super players.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  17. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^
    Well I'm pretty sure most fans would agree with me that Henin>Hingis. And I happened to root for Hingis whenever she play the Williams sisters.

    We know kiki always short change a player's accomplishment if he/she isn't his favorite, but handout the bouquet of red roses for his favorite.
     
  18. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    If we look single/doubles record there is no question which one is better player
     
  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Doubles? oh¡ it is not tennis for current standarts
     
  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    that´s it, that´s it.

    TMF´s only reason to pray for Henin is his/her hate for the Williams.

    Wait, Martina had a pretty good record vs the ssisters...
     
  21. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    In 1959, Hoad's winning percentage on the two championship tours was 70% (76 wins and 33 losses), the best on the tours.
     
  22. FedericRoma83

    FedericRoma83 Rookie

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    Frank Sedgman is my no. 1 in 1953 and 1958.
    Gonzales no. 1 from 1954 to 1957.
    Hoad no. 1 in 1959.
    Rosewall no. 1 from 1960 to 1963, co-no. 1 in 1965 and 1970, no. 1 again in 1971.
    Laver no. 1 in 1964, co-no. 1 in 1965, no. 1 from 1966 to 1969, co-no. 1 in 1970.
    Then I have Nastase two years (1972-73).
     
  23. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Federic, I agree with most of your points. I only would rank Sedgman behind Kramer in 1953 and Rosewall as Co. No.1 for 1964 as he won the official tour.

    It's good that you have Rosewall No.1 in 1971 (I rank tied No.1 Smith and Newcombe).
     
  24. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    "Co" number ones? This is a cop-out and makes no sense.
     
  25. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sedgman is very close to Gonzales in 1958, beating Gonzales in both the Wembley Pro and the big tournament in Australia, but I still have Gonzales ahead. He won the US Pro in Cleveland and the Tournament of Champions at Forest Hills, and won the world pro tour against Hoad. In 1960, Gonzales barely played any tournaments after the end of his contract with Kramer, but he dominated the world pro tour, including Rosewall, and the tour was the most important thing back then.

    I have Gonzales as number 1 from 1954-1961, because he always either the very best, or never toppled as the best, throughout that whole period.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  26. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Mustard, Therefore I plead to make Co.-No.1 for several years (plus other tied places).
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I agree with the following exceptions:

    1970: it´s between Newcombe and Rosewall ( I´d pick Rosewall) but not really Laver, if you take into consideration the whole year ( and not 2 or 3 events were Laver was unbeatable).As you probably know, I am one of the fiercest Laver admirers over here, but he was behind Newcombe and Rosewall in the overall look of the year.

    1971: although Rosewall won 2 of the 6 biggest events, Smith won Forest Hills and was runner up at both Wimbledon and the Masters.

    Kodes won Paris and lost the USO final.Nastase lost the FO final and took the Masters.Newcombe won Wimbledon ( but little else ), Ashe reached the AO final against Rosewall ( and reached the Dallas semis), and finally Laver lost the WCT finals to Rosewall.

    1971 is one of my fav years, with 7 excelent and yet diverse players making the 6 big finals of the year (Smith,Rosewall,Laver,Newcombe,Kodes,Nastase,Ashe).That top 7 is possibly the best ever for a single year ( even better than late 50´s pros )

    1972.Nastase wins Masters and USO while Smith wins the then big DC and Wimbledon.Smith beat Nastase in two of their 3 finals, although Nastase had probably a better year overall.Very very close.Their Masters final is one of the greatest indoor finals of all time.

    Just my two cents.
     
  28. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    For 1958, I still have to rate Hoad at number one, because he was the leading money-winner on the year based on tournament points (which is the system we use today!), plus he won the greatest match of 1958 or of any year against Gonzales at Kooyong 4-6, 9-7, 11-9, 18-16 (a match Gonzales rated as the best ever between the two).

    If you beat the best at his very best, what does that make you?
     
  29. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, best match does not mean most important match.
     
  30. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Not always, but in this case it does.
    You never know in advance when the big one will come along, it just develops.
    Many Wimbledon finals are dogs.
     
  31. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Most important match does not necessarily mean greatest match.
     
  32. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, okay, but what do you want to tell us?
     
  33. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    This is it.
     
  34. FedericRoma83

    FedericRoma83 Rookie

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    In my opinion you are overrating Tour in some years.
    In 1961 the tour was missing Rosewall, so Gonzales didn't faced his direct opponent there. I mean, it was surely a big event but I think we can't say it was more important than two Pro Majors with full fields (if Rosewall was on the tour, then maybe...)
    They were 2-2 on tournaments head-to-head, with Rosewall winning both the big titles. No chance for Pancho as no. 1 in 1961 in my (very) humble opinion.
    In 1960 he had a strong lead against Rosewall but he retired after the tour, in my vision of tennis I can't accept a no. 1 who plays only half season, that's why I go with Rosewall in 1960 also.
    In 1959 Hoad was my no. 1 beacause Pancho won the tour, but just slightly, while Hoad won many tournaments, including the biggest one, and he leads him also on head-to-head matches.
    In 1958 I go with Sedgman because he won two of the four biggest events (Australian Pro, Wembley Pro), while Gonzales "only" one (ToC). The fact that he won the tour against Hoad didn't prove he was stronger than Sedgman too, in fact on tournaments head-to-head we find Sedgman leading 4-2.

    Just look how tennis history change by changing the observer. You have Gonzales no. 1 for eight straight years, while I have him on top "only" four straight years (+ he is also my 1952 no. 1). On the contrary you rank Rosewall no. 1 only in 1962-63, while he is my no. 1 or co-no. 1 in 1960-61-62-63-65-70-71. :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
  35. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Bumped for reference purposes.
     
  36. veco

    veco New User

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    1919—Johnston
    1920—Tilden
    1921—Tilden
    1922—Tilden
    1923—Tilden
    1924—Tilden
    1925—Tilden
    1926—Lacoste
    1927—Lacoste
    1928—Cochet
    1929—Cochet
    1930—Cochet
    1931—Tilden
    1932—Vines
    1933—Crawford
    1934—Perry
    1935—Perry/Vines
    1936—Perry/Vines
    1937—Perry/Vines/Budge
    1938—Budge
    1939—Budge
    1940—Budge
    1941—Perry
    1942—Budge
    1946—Riggs
    1947—Riggs/Kramer
    1948—Kramer
    1949—Kramer
    1950—Kramer
    1951—Kramer
    1952—Gonzales
    1953—Kramer
    1954—Gonzales
    1955—Gonzales
    1956—Gonzales
    1957—Gonzales
    1958—Gonzales/Sedgman
    1959—Hoad
    1960—Gonzales
    1961—Gonzales/Rosewall
    1962—Rosewall
    1963—Rosewall
    1964—Laver
    1965—Laver
    1966—Laver
    1967—Laver
    1968—Laver
    1969—Laver
    1970—Laver/Rosewall
    1971—Newcombe/Rosewall/Smith
    1972—Smith
    1973—Nastase
    1974—Connors
    1975—Ashe
    1976—Connors
    1977—Vilas
    1978—Borg
    1979—Borg
    1980—Borg
    1981—McEnroe
    1982—Connors
    1983—McEnroe
    1984—McEnroe
    1985—Lendl
    1986—Lendl
    1987—Lendl
    1988—Wilander
    1989—Becker
    1990—Edberg
    1991—Edberg
    1992—Courier
    1993—Sampras
    1994—Sampras
    1995—Sampras
    1996—Sampras
    1997—Sampras
    1998—Sampras
    1999—Agassi
    2000—Kuerten
    2001—Hewitt
    2002—Hewitt
    2003—Roddick
    2004—Federer
    2005—Federer
    2006—Federer
    2007—Federer
    2008—Nadal
    2009—Federer
    2010—Nadal
    2011—Djokovic
    2012—Djokovic

    any good?
     
  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    71 is intrincate, probably the closest ever year among the top players.

    73 is also close, but Nastase won 2 out of 6 majors, and he probbaly played the best tennis, although Newcombe and Kodes did play fantastic tennis at the US Open.Maybe Nastase is the nº1 for the first half and Newcombe or Kodes are the best candidates for the second half?
     
  38. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    excellent, but I´d consider Hoad and Gonzales on par in 56 and Newcombe or Kodes at Nastase´s results level in 73( but I am happy with your choice of Nasty anyway).
     
  39. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Looks very good, to me.

    1977 is tricky, as is 1970, as is 1961, as is 1958.
     
  40. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    1977 is very debatable. Borg won 11 official titles and went 76-7 on the ATP site. He went 2-1 vs. Connors, with wins at Wimbledon (grass) and the Pepsi Grand Slam (rubico), and a loss at the Masters (indoors) in Jan. 78. He was 3-0 vs. Vilas, with wins at the Masters in Jan. 78 (carpet), Monte Carlo (clay) and Nice (clay). So, Borg was 5-1 versus his primary competition at the top, with 11 titles won, including Wimbledon. He won at Wembley (indoor), Cologne (carpet), Basel (carpet), Barcelona (clay), Madrid (clay), Wimbledon (grass), Denver (carpet), Monte Carlo (clay), Nice (clay), Memphis (carpet), and the Pepsi Grand Slam- Boca Raton (clay). His surface versatility with big titles, head to head record versus Connors and Vilas, and his win at Wimbledon all weigh in favor of Bjorn Borg in 1977. It's debatable, but I would submit that Borg has the best record overall in 1977.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Bo/B/Bjorn-Borg.aspx?t=pa&y=1977&m=s&e=0#

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  41. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Hoad was never in the same class with Gonzalez in 1956.
     
  42. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    borg number one, I would split 1977 between Borg and Vilas.
     
  43. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    That's fair enough. Vilas has two majors, with the French Open and the U.S. Open. Yet, Borg's record head to head record versus Vilas and Connors, as well as his Wimbledon title are very significant.
     
  44. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    and as I said earlier, Connors has the two indoor majors and two times finalist at the other slams ( Lost to Borg at W and Vilas at FH).

    So, Connors 2 wins and 2 finals
    Vilas 2 wins, 1 final and a semifinal
    Borg a win and a final

    neither Borg or Connors entered the AO and the FO and neither Borg or Vilas entered the WCT finals ( they just played a WCT event, the MC open and both reached the final...)

    Connors has a case here.At the end, however, I´d give the edge to Vilas.Borg would have to wait until 1978.
     
  45. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    Impossible to compare indoor majors and Grand Slams ! 0 Grand Slam for Connors, it's impossible for a player whon won 0 Grand Slam to be considered as the n°1. In 1977, Vilas was the real world champion, Borg n°2 and Connors n°3.
     
  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    both were considered majors back then.Vilas had a great win at the Masters against Connors but failed against Borg and Connors won the MSG tournament at the end.
     
  47. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I agree that we should not omit Connors from the No.1 discussion for 1977. He was No.1 in the ATP list...
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    while I still support Vilas for nº1, I´d even say that Connors was the real nº2 and Borg was the nº3.IMO, of course.Borg beat Jimmy at Wimbledon, but Connors stroke back at the Masters.

    A pitty Borg defaulted at the US open, in his fourth round match.it would have been extremely interesting what could have happened if Borg had been fit.
     
  49. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    5-1 for Borg head to head has to big a big factor as well guys. 5 out of 6 matches won is a telling statistic.
     
  50. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    Head to head is not really important, because the question is not "who is the best player ?", but "who is the world champion ?".
     

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