World Tour Finals or the Tennis Singles Olympic Gold

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Eragon, Jul 20, 2013.

?

WTF singles or the Singles Olympic Gold

  1. World Tour Finals - Singles

    55.9%
  2. Olympic Tennis Gold - Singles

    44.1%
  1. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,101
    I agree that from an european point of view, it seems that the olympics is a holy mission of demonstrating the nation power for the USA (as well as for the other strong olympics nation like China, Russia, Germany and Britain). If the Americans tell us that the tennis tournament isn't very important in the state, it may be because: 1) they don't have any male contender 2) they have Michael Phelps who can win 15 medals all by himself 3) they have dozen of other athletes for winning medals

    Whereas in some european countries like Serbia or Switzerland, they don't have a lot of sportsmen to win medals apart the tennis stars.
     
  2. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    830
    Of course it's the same argument, because (as you read my post), it's the same stuff being repeated again and again from both sides.

    I don't know if English is your first language, but you seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of prestige, and the difference between that and "worth more".

    Obviously, WTF is worth more in points and prize money, and it's more valuable to the ATP in terms of income and it being their own tournament that they have control over.

    However, prestige is something different, and it is about what other people think, and you can't just rule out grannies because they are likely to rate the higher profile, more widely respected, event more higher than the one you like best.

    Your logic consists of "I'm right, because those who know what they are talking about (defined as those who agree with me), agree with me".

    THAT is silly.
     
  3. Eragon

    Eragon Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Alagaesia
    I wonder if English is your first language, because prestige isn't the sole criterion. Perhaps you couldn't read more than a few words of the OP before developing a head-ache, eh?
     
  4. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,261
    Location:
    Chile
    The prestige of the OG isn't just about what "grannies" think, there are plenty of players' quotes talking about an OG as being as important as a major, whether anyone agrees with them or not. Fact is, the importance of the OG in tennis has increased enormously recently, so bringing poor Massu into it is pointless.

    You really need better reading comprehension. I never said it was a different surface. It's hc on indoor conditions, and not having won there is really not the same as missing a slam on a completely different surface.

    And I never said Nadal "needs" twice as many chances. You just missed the fact I was answering to a post by Zagor, who said Rafa had had at least twice as many chances to win the WTF as Fed to win the OG, which I simply pointed out isn't so. It isn't even close to being twice as many chances (certainly not four times).

    I've seen many people pointing out the fact that Borg also played the USO on clay and still couldn't win it.

    Sure, I agree.

    Hasn't Agassi won every big tournament?.
     
  5. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,828
    You have substantiated your argument quite well, case closed.


     
  6. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,083
    You missed the past tense of the original statement.
    This last Olympics had real points up for grabs. As I said, we'll see if it continues.
     
  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    Olympics becomes more important and prestigious with every year....

    This last one though I think was the biggest.

    Next to Wimbledon and the FO it was probably the biggest tournament of the year .....even bigger than the AO......certainly wayyyyyyy bigger than the past WTF .

    To be perfectly honest .....I don't even know who won the last WTF ? Was it Fed ? Who was even in the finals ?
     
  8. 6-3 6-0

    6-3 6-0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,577
    Location:
    Fedal era
    Lol, do you realize you're making yourself look like a fool? Olympics maybe higher than WTF in prestige, but WTF is more important in a player's career as it grants double the points. So for me, they're basically the same.
    But to say its greater than AO (a slam), a BIG LOL for that! :lol:
     
  9. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,716
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    I know, that for someone, whose head is deeply rooted in Nadal's derriere, this might sound like a riot, but what someone says doesn't always reflect the reality.

    Actually, the very comparison with a Major should tell you something about the soberness of such statements. Also, we are talking tennis achievements here, which are something a bit different from what someone might think of them (be it the player himself). A number of great and not so great players are on record, saying things, that they either cannot mean, if they are to be taken seriously, or are flat out fuelling their own agendas, which might or might not have anything to do with the objective estimates of the situation, they are talking about.

    In other words, the subjective feeling of the players about the Olympics might not be related to the value of the tournament in tennis terms (which is what we are talking about and about which points are given for the different stages of the tournament).



    Can you quote me, where I am saying that winning the WTF is equal to winning a Major (or missing, if you prefer) on a particular surface?

    I simply said, that Federer has nothing to prove on the surfaces the OG he has played in are played on, while Nadal has a lot to prove on the surface the WTF is played on.

    That is indeed so and you try to pass what I am saying about Federer and the surfaces of the OG also for Nadal and the WTF, which is disastrous, as Nadal is really, really bad on indoor hard.

    Maybe you should start actually discussing the matters at hand,rather than trying to object to points, that were not ment to be taken literally. Of course, being who you are, it is easier for you to do what you do, rather than engage yourself in a meaningful discussion.

    In this regard maybe you need to read the posts you are responding to more carefully.

    Nadal was eligible for participation in roughly double the number of WTF as Federer has for OG.

    It was entirely his decision to sit the tournament out, but he had chances to participate and win it (but that is a hypothetical as he missed a couple for different reasons).

    And I am not even getting into a discussion about the real situation, where Nadal had indeed close to twice as many chances to win the WTF, being at the peak of his powers, as had Federer to win the Olympics at the peak of his.

    I know, that you and the likes of you will never admit to that, but there is no denying, that two of Federer's efforts came in times, where he was as far from his peak years as he possibly can be (and still be in contention for the top spots). In his first attempt he was 19 y.o. and in 2012 he was 32 (for comparison, Agassi won his OG medal at the age of 26) while Nadal had all his attempts at the WTF at his absolute peak or close to his peak.

    In this case Zagor is absolutely correct.

    And I am not even touching the issue, that Zagor pointed at (and which none of the members of the Vamos Brigade seems to discuss) that, if WTF is such an easy thing to win, why Nadal hasn't done it yet?

    I hope, that i am not going to see argumentation like "yeah, Federer has won it so many times, so it must be easy and Nadal hasn't just because his game is not suited to the conditions" because that would mean, that from the perspective of Nadal fan, one should state the opposite - that WTF is harder (not easier) to win.

    It is, if you try to review the situation objectively and not through your tinted glasses, but it is not even necessary to go there as this is not a legitimate requirement to review the relitive success (or the lack of, for that matter) of Nadal at the WTF.
     
  10. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,776
    Location:
    Weak era
    Never won MC as far I know, rarely even played it, for such a talented CC player Agassi rarely prepared well for FO, most of his runs there came out of nowhere (with very little match play on the surface beforehand).

    Novak is close, lacks only Cinci out of masters and he reached 2 finals there so it would be a special achievement to complete the set, if he wins FO and SOG down the road he would have really won everything there is in tennis.
     
  11. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    25,776
    Location:
    Weak era
    No, he merely pointed out what Fed said, which is merely one opinion even if it comes from Fed himself.

    Otherwise we coukd also point out Nadal said Fed is better than him and he leads H2H mostly because they played on clay and close the case there as well.
     
  12. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,475
    obviously, the olympic gold in singles has always been at the pinnacle of greatness in tennis.

    always has been, always will be.
     
  13. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,716
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    TDK.

    Where is your quote of the players, saying, that the OG tennis tournament is the fifth Major?

    I have not forgotten, in case that you hoped so.
     
  14. Eragon

    Eragon Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Alagaesia
    Always? Like when Massu won it in 2004?
     
  15. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,475
    massu's 2 golds > djokovic's 2 WTF/YEC

    duh
     
  16. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    5,030
    World Tour Finals - Singles.
     
  17. Eragon

    Eragon Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Alagaesia
    So Massu has achieved the pinnacle of greatness in Tennis. Federer, Sampras, Laver, and Borg haven't :lol:
     
  18. Candide

    Candide Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    Yabba, the greatest little place on Earth
    Who's Massu? Seriously.
     
  19. Eragon

    Eragon Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Alagaesia
    Honestly, I have no idea. I just read on this forum that he has a Singles Gold :lol:
     
  20. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,101
    One fact that shows that Olympics is juged by criterias with are external to tennis criterias: winning a double medal, a silver medal or a bronze medal is a big deal in the olympics. Being runner-up is nice too, but the third place, nobody talk about. But at the olympics it's important.

    It's shows that winning at the olympics is relevant for other matter than for tennis matter.
     
  21. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,475
    yes, the single double. a gold in singles and in doubles. GOAT.
     
  22. Eragon

    Eragon Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Alagaesia
    Yes, Massu is the real GOAT. Displayed great mental strength and nerve to win a special event that occurs only once every 4 years. Singles GOAT and Doubles GOAT for 2004. Nobody even comes close. Massu = Tennis GOAT
     
  23. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,998
    Here is a hint: not Rafa.
     
  24. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,475
    yes, i knew i could make a believer out of you. spread the word. Massu > everyone
     
  25. Eragon

    Eragon Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Alagaesia
    [​IMG]
     
  26. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    10,796
    Location:
    NL, Canada
    Pretty much. This is a great thread, but it's gone on way too long. It should've ended after MN's post at the latest. And my reasoning for voting for the WTF was because OP basically said which is more important as a tennis title. Tennis being the key word for me, but I could understand if someone took a different stance on it, and said OG. There's really no problem here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
  27. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,340
    When you have to post paragraphs of analysis instead of even one quote you just know something is wrong.

    News flash....the world outside of ******** nation disagree with you.

    All I have to say is just one sentence :

    Olympics = "The fifth slam"
     
  28. nethawkwenatchee

    nethawkwenatchee Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Wenatchee, WA
    Eragon: I wonder where this anti-olympic sentiment might stem from? Massu "the vampire" was world #9 at one time. He brought his A-Game at the Olympics so why belittle him? None of this changes things for Roger. He'll still make 2016 RIO a "priority" :)
     

Share This Page