Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by heycal, Oct 28, 2012.
Madonna is like my golfer elbow….really annoying and never goes away.
I'm thinking an STD joke would be appropriate here.......
The organ line in Whiter Shade of Pale was influenced by a few JS Bach pieces. The lyric borrows from Chaucer.
In the case of appreciating arts, yes "better" is fairly subjective, though not completely. But the degree to which it is subjective is enough for me to stay out of trying to convince people that a certain band is better than another. If someone would like to prove otherwise, I would like them to propose a quantifiable and objective measure for how good a song/band is.
A similar debate exists in the contemporary art world, because of the same confusion about subjectivity and objectivity. Nowadays, some people say that no work of art is better than any other. The Campbell's Soup logo is art; a pile of rocks or dog poop is art; the Aurora Borealis is art. Why? Because whether or not something is art is a "subjective" matter. Philosophers cringe.
What about aesthetic judgments (like "Mozart's music is better than Copland's" or "Amadeus is a better movie than Austin Powers")? Are aesthetic judgments mere matters of opinion? Again, most philosophers would say no, though aesthetic disagreements might seem tougher to settle. But think of it this way. Suppose someone says "I think store-bought tomatoes taste better than home-grown tomatoes." Now, anyone who's eaten home-grown tomatoes would be incredulous: how could anyone with experience of both decide the store-bought tomatoes taste better? As a tomato grower, my first impulse would be to wonder if the speaker simply didn't understand which tomato was which; I would want to bring the speaker one of my home-grown tomatoes and ask again! Which is better? It's just obvious if you've experienced both. Something like that may be true for works of art as well. Maybe people who think Austin Powers is an excellent film simply have no idea what a good film is, and they'll change their minds gradually as they acquire more experience of life and art. All I'm proposing is that with aesthetic judgments, some people have relevant expertise.
But what about the fact that "Austin Powers" IS a better film than "Amadeus"? Or that brownies made from a mix (Duncan Hines, Betty Crocker, etc) ARE generally better than homemade brownies? (Same with cake mixes. Although homemade chocolate chip cookies are almost always better than any store-bought ones.)
And some bands that are better than them are...?
No. In tennis terms, the Beatles are Rod Laver, Roger Federer, and Pete Sampras combined, and these are other bands are like Leyton Hewitt, Andy Roddick, and David Nalbandian.
Any idea where I can find the best pizza? Or Chinese food?
I certainly do.
Let's talk about Brian Wilson for a moment since he comes up a lot in this thread.
Now, I like the Beach Boys as much as the next guy. They are all over my ipod. I love all the surf music, and later hits like God Only Knows and Good Vibrations are wonderful.
But what else is there? What did he do that put him anywhere near the Beatles, or the Stones, for that matter?
The vaunted Pet Sounds, which I read was suppposedly inspired by Rubber Soul, ain't no Rubber Soul. Check out the track listings if you don't believe me. A couple of excellent songs and that's it.
I mean, come on, folks. He's certainly one of the most talented American pop guys of all time, but let's not over-praise him. The surf music was great, but he was really only able to produce less than a handful of excellent songs once he moved beyond that.
Pink Floyd and Queen are as good or better than The Beatles.
Lol, as the kids say. Pink Floyd was excellent, but when you look at their output, you've only got the great "Dark Side of the Moon" and a few fine songs here and there.
As for Queen, there's really not much beyond Bohemian Rhapsody. Freddie Mercury had what I might call an Elvis problem: Amazing singer, not so great material.
This band rocks (related)
You're so clueless. The Beatles played three chord songs and called it music. Same with the Stones. Same with Nirvana. Freddy Mercury wrote the songs, composed the (very intricate) music, played the piano, AND sang at a ridiculous range. And don't even get me started on Pink Floyd. To suggest that "Dark Side of the Moon" was their only contribution is not only stupid, it's insulting!
Heycal, don't make it bad
Take a sad thread and make it better
Remember to let us into your heart
Then you can start to make it better
Heycal, don't be afraid
You were made to go out and get sunshine
The minute you let thoughts enter your head
Then you begin to make it better.
And any time you feel the urge, heycal, refrain
Don't carry these thoughts between your ears
Well don't you know that its a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder
Heycal! Don't let us down
You know the truth, now go and get sunshine
Remember, to let us into your heart
Then you can start to make it better.
So let it out and let it in, heycal, begin
You're waiting for someone to perform with
And don't you know that it's just you, heycal,
You'll do, the movement you need is on your shoulder
Heycal, don't make it bad
Take a sad thread and make it better
Remember to let us into your heart
Then you can start to make it better
Amazing singer, NOT so great material???? Mercury was probably the best songwriter in popular music. Not really much beyond Bohemian Rhapsody?? Listen to March of the Black Queen, Innuendo, Millonaire Waltz, My Fairy King, Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy, Killer Queen, In the Lap of the Gods Revisited, Jealousy, Great King Rat, Ogre Battle, Fairy Feller's Master Stroke, You Take My Breath Away, and I can go on for ever.....Not to mention Brian May's stuff like The Prophet's Song, 39', White Queen, Teo Torriate, All Dead All Dead, It's Late and a lot of other great tunes.
Probably not any other could write and arrange music like Queen.
And Dark Side is Floyd's masterpice, but you're very wrong again if you think it's their only great album...what about Wish You Were Here?? Animals? Meddle?? The Division Bell?? All of them fantastic albums.
It's true what you say about Nirvana and Rolling Stones playing very simple music. But The Beatles could write fantastic music too. In their first albums there are a lot of 3-chord songs and nothing very creative but from "Revolver" on wards there are a lot of fantastic songs.
How about a nice pair of skinny jeans for a 50 year old man?
Yes, BAD songs.
I must admit I don't know these songs. When I say bad music, I really only mean the hits that a casual listener would know. That said, I somehow doubt that all these songs are great, and somehow only the bad ones became well-known...
Gap or H&M. But can't go too skinny though when this old -- let a girlfriend or a teenager be your guide here.
after reading opening, I just realized that I am different-never heard of them... sorry,op. I am going to pass this thread.
Oh boy, you are clueless. The stuff he wrote from 1961-1967 is amazing work. Lyrically it's about surfing and girls mostly, but the composition and style was phenomenal.
As for the last comment, that is ridiculousness at it's most extreme. Brian Wilson had a mental breakdown, which basically incapacitated him for a good 20 years.
Try listening to his solo albums, Sweet Insanity, Imagination, also the released smile album. Musically they are fantastic.
In my opinion the Today album is their best album by far. Much better than Pet Sounds.
The reason people cite Pet Sounds as one of the greatest albums of all time (I believe it's number 2), is because the musical composition of that album was revolutionary. Every track on that album sounds fantastic.
I already acknowledged that the surf music is great. What I'm saying is that he couldn't really move beyond it aside from a few excellent songs. He wrote tons of great surf songs, yes, but only a handful of interesting ones after that, and I'm talking pre-mental breakdown. It's akin to the Beatles being unable to produce more than a few great songs after a "Hard Days Night" something.
As for "revolutionary", and "compositionally" and "innovative" and "conceptually" and whatever other terms we want to apply to these artists and their music only one thing really matters: the songs. How good are the songs? And "Wouldn't it be nice?" and "Sloop John B." aren't going on my ipod before "Gimme Shelter" or "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds", my friend. Are they really on your "A" list?
Cool!! I'm currently dating Tracy from Woody Allen's Manhattan, so she qualifies on both counts.
The skinny jeans thread... Good memories...
H&M clothes (at least the men's stuff) are crap. Just sayin'...
Indeed. Maybe we should start another one, even though the last one proved controversial for some reason.
In terms of style or material? If the former, I defer to women's views, who seem to like their stuff on this old man. If the latter, yes, probably so. But it's also half the price of the Gap, for one example. (Speaking of which, my thinly made Gap blue jeans already have a hole in them after one year of normal wear. That store is going downhill...)
Taylor Swift is nice to behold but the 'music' well i feel its quite common and mediocre.
Her looks carry it.
I bet everyone following this thread was thinking the exact same thing right about now, but you beat us to it.
Of course, but someones gotta take the lead.
Kaitlin can pull off jeans better than heycal.
Wouldn't it be nice? is a great song. Sloop John B is not a Brian Wilson composition. You are forgetting that he had a mental breakdown in 1967 while composing Smile right?
He did still write some awesome tracks though, "All I wanna do" on the sunflower album, "Till I die" on the Surfs Up album. "I went to sleep", "Breakaway", "Time to Get Alone", all brilliant songs.
As I said, in my opinion, his best album was the Today album. Every song on that sounds fantastic, and it was the first one to really break away from the surf and car stuff.
I don't recognize the other songs you mention, but if "Wouldn't it be nice?" is your definition of a great song, I don't hold out much hope for those others. It's perfectly pleasant, but hardly a masterpiece.
As for the mental breakdown -- what's his excuse for not producing better non-surf music before that happened?
Don't get me wrong. I think Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys are great overall, and could be the best American band of all. It's just that the Beatles and Stones were significantly better. It's not unlike Andy Roddick being the best American tennis player in his day -- yet not in the same league as the Europeans.
The record company had a lot of say over what kind of musics bands produced in those days. The beach boys got popular because of the surf and car stuff. So Brian made a lot of it because that's what sold records.
When we made Pet Sounds the record company were seriously against it, as were a lot of the fans. You'll notice it didn't do particularly well, there's a good reason for that.
He was moving away from the surfing stuff, and it sounded totally different. Then just as Pet sounds started to pick up, the record company released a Beach Boys best of. So people stopped buying Pet Sounds and bought the best of instead.
Brian was really disappointed with the performance of Pet Sounds, and really angry with the record company for effectively sabotaging any chance it had to be a big seller.
I don't know which is worst
The best band is Drean Theater :wink:
It depends what you mean.
If you mean, that the materials are crap, or around that level I am inclined to agree.
If you mean, that the construction is crap, I strongly disagree.
Actually, I got a present from a friend some time ago. A Slim fit long sleeve H&M shirt. It puts my RTW Cerruti and other even more expensive shirts to shame.
"Wouldn't it be nice" is a fantastic song. This is a successful troll thread created by someone with no music experience outside of being a common fan.
That's all well and good, but why isn't Pet Sounds a better album?
Fantastic? Not quite. A fine song, yes, but I don't think it's going on anyone's "100 songs I'm bringing to a desert island" list.
I know plenty of people who would disagree with both of those statements, Many are much more accomplished in the music business than yourself. One is personally responsible for over 7 platinum albums. In the music industry, Pet Sounds is considered one of the greatest records in the past 50 plus years. The fact that the label of the past did not properly market it, has no affect on that current opinion. It was essentially far ahead of it's time when released.
The only reason I bring this up is because you are making subjective statements as if they are facts. Your opinion of song quality is no better than any other average fan. At least the people I cite have made careers in music so I would carry their opinion far more over yours.
If you have ever had your job on the line where you have had to predict hit songs, song order and allocate promotional budget than you may have some set of ears that makes your opinion more respected. But I sincerely doubt this is the case.
I don't think people in the music industry have any monopoly on taste. In fact, there is is ample evidence of quite the opposite.
And I really don't care about sales or popularity, so I don't know why you guys are feeling a need to defend the album on that count. Good seller or bad seller, hits or not, I'm just saying a lot of the songs on the album ain't that great.
Indeed. What a moronic thread.
And all I am saying is you have no ears and no real reason to make a pointless thread about your musical opinion.
That's fine. Just remember: Pet Sounds = Andy Roddick. Revolver = Roger Federer.
"Candy & Cathy, hope you both are well..."
I love Brian Wilson (seriously).
And I'd use The Beach Boys' sumptuous (respectable) harmonies to get on the good side of my parents:
"See mom & dad?..rock 'n roll can be 'good'!....*oh, please love me!*
...then I'd go to my room, close the door, put on the 'cans' and blast the song "Citidel" <---- THIS is bliss
I now suffer from tinnitus. Citdel (and my live friends Fender, Vox et al) Surprised?
ninman, not a flame, but there is often a striking resemblance between the guitar solos in a number of mid-60's 'surf tunes' and watered-down/cheesy Chuck Berry. Just sayin'....
I went through H&M for the first time in about 5 or 6 years this past Sunday with my wife when she told me they were having some sort of buy-one, get-one sale on sweaters. When I say H&M is crap, I mean I felt like I was picking through the leftovers of a Lebanese bazaar. Crap style, crap materials and yes, crap construction. My wife reminded me of a couple of dresses she had that basically fell apart after wearing them once or twice. "That's what you get when you pay $19.99 for a dress", I replied.
I'm not on the bleeding edge of fashion, but I thought it was lame that H&M was still pushing the blazer-with-the-hoodie-sweater-sewn-in. Isn't that the universal d-bag uniform, or something?
Regarding the falling quality of blue jeans, I totally agree. I used to have a couple of pairs from Old Navy that looked and fit great and lasted quite a while. When I went back to ON, I was surprised at the paper-thin denim they were selling as blue jeans. I went to the GAP and found the same thing. Bought a pair anyways - out of habit, I guess, - and my initial impression was confirmed. Garbage. Even the Levi's I tried recently seemed to be lower quality (though their price has climbed steeply). A couple of labels I found acceptable quality in are Lucky and Salt.
Pet Sounds. I'm not a big Beach Boys fan but I like some of their music well enough and have a copy of Pet Sounds somewhere in my collection. I thought, for the longest time, that "Good Vibrations" was on Pet Sounds. When I realized it wasn't, it really lowered my opinion of the album.
Perhaps something along the lines of Zara , Nautica ,FillipaK or if you can afford it Ermenegildo Zegna could be a better deal for you?
I'm just going to assume these were skinny jeans.
I stopped letting teenagers pick out my clothes on my twentieth birthday...
Personally, i will never underestimate the judgement of people younger than me.. not even when it comes to jeans.
Well, doesn't your wife like to see you in skinny jeans?
I have it on good authority that women are wild for old men in skinny jeans.
Separate names with a comma.