Would Federer have beaten Nadal more often if...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by MrFlip, Apr 12, 2010.

?

Federer playing like Murray?

  1. Yes (If Federer still finished points as strongly as he usually does)

    11 vote(s)
    29.7%
  2. No (Nadal would murder him because of the single hander issue)

    26 vote(s)
    70.3%
  1. MrFlip

    MrFlip Semi-Pro

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    He used tactics that Murray employs? Mixing up the pace, slicing more often.

    Call me daft but Federer seems to enjoy rallying with Nadal a lot whenever they meet and the two try as hard as they can to blow each other off the court. I think Federer would have done better to use different tactics from time to time.

    Note: I know that the majority of Nadal's wins over Federer are on clay.
     
    #1
  2. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

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    Federer doesn't have the ability to knock Nadal off the court. (not that Murray does but he plays the right way against Nadal)

    Federer doesn't return as well as Murray.

    Federer doesn't come in as much as Murray does against Nadal.

    Murray doesn't have a mental block against Nadal. Murray does

    Murray normally saves his best serving days for Nadal. Federer doesn't

    Murray actually plays high risk tennis against Nadal. Using BH DTL or inside-out forehands attacking Nadal at the big points. Federer is a coward against Nadal.

    Did you see Miami? Roddick slicing and spinning balls in the first set didn't help him one bit. He started hitting hard at Nadal's forehand keeping him on that side. That's how you beat Nadal by pummeling Nadal's forehand into submission and this literally erodes his groundstokes leaving them short to smack winners. Federer doesn't have his 2004-2007 ability to do that anymore simply because he doesn't move as well and he isn't consistent at playing that high risk game he played.
     
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  3. Li Ching Yuen

    Li Ching Yuen Legend

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    He would have beaten Nadal more often if the big chunk of their h2h matches weren't in the end of 07, 2008, and early 2009.
     
    #3
  4. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Federer would have beaten Nadal more often if Nadal was Roddick.
     
    #4
  5. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    ....If Nadal was able to do what Rodge did, and that's going deeper on HC tourneys like Rodge did on Clay.
     
    #5
  6. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Fed would have beaten Nadal more if Nadal was good enough to reach the finals in more hardcourt tournaments...
     
    #6
  7. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Federer needs to have a more consistent game in order to beat Nadal.

    This clay court season is critical. Any further erosion of the head to head, and Fed's status is in trouble.
     
    #7
  8. MrFlip

    MrFlip Semi-Pro

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    Federer does have the ability to blow Nadal off the court, eg Shanghai 06 and Shanghai 07.

    At the start of the Wimbledon 08 match Fed was slicing and volleying beautifully and then he started getting into the long bassline rallies and was making mistakes often enough to find himself down break point.

    But there are a few factors (thanks for Anaconda pointing them out) Federer doesnt have which Murray does, mainly the height and court speed to handle Nadal's loopy balls.

    Thats a good observation about Roddick pummelling Nadal's forehand to open up gaps. Soderling did that really well at the French Open. Both sides really. I have a feeling this thread will get old very quick, ah well.
     
    #8
  9. paulorenzo

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    when murray plays aggressively, which he only seems to do against nadal, the outcome is rewarding.
    that's usually the way to go against a player with better defensive skills.

    murray played aggressively against nadal in ao 2010.
    jmdp played aggressively against nadal in USO 2009
    tendonitis played aggressively against nadal in Wimby 2009 :)
    Soderling played aggressively against nadal in FO 2009
    Federer played aggressively against nadal in madrid mutua madrilena 2009.

    et al.

    edit: but i understand what you're saying— the slicing and coming in with the intent to throw nadal's rhythm off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
    #9
  10. Semi-Pro

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    Slicing is probably one of the worst tactics you can use against Nadal. Players should never use it against him unless they absolutely have to (ie. on the run and they have no other option). No matter how good the slice is it rarely affects him.

    Best tactic: Be aggressive to the Nadal forehand.
     
    #10
  11. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    yeah going after his forehand would be the best tactic. i think del potro demonstrated it best, blow him off the court (6-2 6-2 6-2). nadal couldn't do anything about it. i do think fed's power forehand can blow nadal off the court, it's that fed hits too many backhands against him.
     
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  12. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    best answer EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
     
    #12
  13. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    ROFL X 1050, TC! I see that you've decided to join the 'firing on all cylinders' club! :)

     
    #13
  14. Safin4ever

    Safin4ever Banned

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    These type of threads are lame. The ones that analyse what ifs ,could have's and should have's . H2H is 13-7. Its gonna be even more in Nadal's favor if they meet in the upcoming clay clourt events.
     
    #14
  15. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    S4e ... but I thought the Feddie fans said Federer had figured out Nadal on clay? That is, if Madrid is any indication! ROFL!

     
    #15
  16. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    madrid was an indication, there will be no more of FO 2008 matches between them, from now it's more even
     
    #16
  17. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    There is nothing to "figure" out about Nadal. There is a strategy that works. Always been that way and always will be that way. Players just need to step up literally and figuratively.
    Nadal should beat Federer from here on out on all surfaces. He is younger, bigger and closer to his prime than the skinny old coot. He is slower, less consistent, has less power and is mentally weak against Nadal. Nadal has the edge in every matchup. 2007 it was an even matchup. Not anymore.
    Federer better mix it up like he was starting to do at Madrid or he is looking at losses in all majors to Nadal. There is no excuse if Nadal loses to federer again. None. Zero. Nada. Ziltch.
     
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  18. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    You're right about that, I wouldn't bet against it.

    But Nadal will beat Federer at the FO this year. If I were a betting man, I'd do it!

     
    #18
  19. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    I think there is truth in that. I could see Federer being down against Nadal and instead of folding he just might panic and go 4 broke. Exactly what you have to do against Nadal.
     
    #19
  20. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    Exactly my assessment as well!

     
    #20
  21. dmt

    dmt Hall of Fame

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    that was at the us opn fast hardcourts, not at the french. Besides Nadal was hardly at his best there, it was just his third tournament back. Del Potro, with the way he played that day, would have beaten any version of Nadal on those hardcourts, but it would have been more competitive then that if Nadal was in better form.
     
    #21
  22. dmt

    dmt Hall of Fame

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    Murray has a double backhand which helps him against Nadal, federer doesnt so its a useless argument. Besides Murray has an edge vs Nadal on hardcourts, IMO the best version of Nadal beats the best version of murray(that we have seen so far) on both grass and clay.
     
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  23. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    :) Not sure why these Nad "fans" think Nadal is a real tough guy for "beating down" federer. LOL! Federer is older, slower, has less power and is less consistent with his strokes now. He is an old Goat who is a dad now.
    Nadal should go onto the court and beat the old man to death with his racket. Nadal fans would be ecstactic.

    Kill the old fart! Kill "Feddie" fans too! Kill!
     
    #23
  24. CMM

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    Go and watch the last two matches that Federer played at AO and say that again.
     
    #24
  25. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    federer ain't that old yet, not until he turns 30, even then he'll one of the fitter 30 years olds out there
     
    #25
  26. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    Sword ... I don't know if I'd go that far. Federer, despite his age in tennis terms, is still the man to beat. Consider the AO final this year, for example.

    The FO 2008 final was an exception to the rule. I don't think anybody predicated that Nadal would blow Federer right off the court in the way that he did. It was the most dominant display I ever saw in a grand slam final (besides the jaw-dropping display that the 'grass master' put on in the 99 Wimbledon final!)

     
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  27. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    I have been watching fed since 1998. He is not Fed of 2006. He can have a match or two where he can pull out some of the old magic. Those days are over. He wins with guile, experience and skill now. He has changed his game tremendously. He can not blow players off the court with his serve and 4hand anymore. He has adapted his game considerably.
    Actually what is xciting 2 me is to watch the rest of his career to see how he includes different tactics and strokes into his game to extend his career and win a few more majors.
     
    #27
  28. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    I might have exaggerated a bit...:twisted:
    But he just can not blow people off the court anymore with his serve and 4hand. He has to play much smarter now. I want to see how he handles a 5th set with Nadal again. That Aussie 2009 5th set really has me questioning things. Also that 5th set against Delpotro. But US Open consecutive days playing Fed will have hard time winning another US Open.
     
    #28
  29. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    Gr8t comparison! That 1999 Wimbledon Final and 2008 French final.....
     
    #29
  30. Markov

    Markov Semi-Pro

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    He would have beaten him more often if Nadal hadn't lost in the early rounds of the HC tournaments...
     
    #30
  31. feetofclay

    feetofclay Semi-Pro

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    Would that be the same kind of indication that was given by Federer's win over Nadal in Hamburg 2007? When Federer said,

    "To come through is excellent, I played fantastic, and I really got the feeling in the end I had figured out how to play him," Federer told Five Live.

    "It's absolutely a breakthrough. It will be interesting to see how we both react in the French Open," said Federer.
     
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  32. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Roger does not put the time and work into the back hand side that the other players do. That is why Roger loses. Roger used to have an amazing back hand, that is done and over with.
     
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  33. All-rounder

    All-rounder Legend

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    Go and watch federer of 05/06 and say that again
     
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  34. CMM

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    No matter what you say, he did not look like an "old" goat in those matches and he definitely wasn't lacking consistency. In fact, some commentators were saying that it's been a looong time since they haven't saw him play that good. Pretty impressive for an old fart.
     
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  35. Safin4ever

    Safin4ever Banned

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    This is ridiculous....fed's backhand has only improved over the years. His forehand has declined in a way because back in 04 and 05 it was more like a scud missile that he could just launch and the point is over. But not anymore.
     
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  36. David123

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    i think if federer is really on and plays his best game, then he always has a good chance to win. If his forehand is not on, then those chances can be slim.
     
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  37. AM95

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    Bold #1: You mean federer right :p
    Bold #2: He was moving pretty damn well in Cincy and Australia.

    General assumption: This post can be sumarized into two words... bad matchup.

    Nadal will always have an advantage on Federer because he's a lefty, and naturally his ball will go to Federer's backhand. thats all there is too it.
     
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  38. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Federer was quite successful with the short slice drawing Nadal to the net at Wimbledon, I was shocked he didn't use that tactic more often considering how great it worked for him.
     
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  39. All-rounder

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    I'm not disagreeing with you but his fitness along with the power factor in his game has taken a step down over the years.
     
    #39
  40. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Haha...Nadal's best is behind him. He has about two years left, if that.
    The guy looks pale, gets irritated easily, has lost weight and has less hair on his head than his uncle Toni. The days of bullying fellow players are over buddy. They are going after him one by one now.

    Here is what Djoker said yesterday:

    He's been so dominant for so long on clay, but everyone knew that just couldn't last," Djokovic said of second seed Nadal, winner of Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome during last season.

    "But his level is now down just a bit and others are starting to get confidence and the belief that they have a chance to beat him."


    Have good day.
     
    #40
  41. DownTheLine

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    He would have if Nadal went deeper in the HC tournaments from 04-07.
     
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  42. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think so. Nadal lacks the ability to back down. That's his biggest asset against Federer. He's not going to go away. Fed doesn't like that. MO.
     
    #42
  43. RoddickAce

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    One would think think with his western forehand grip, Nadal would have a lot of trouble returing low slices. But nadal eats up low slices most of the time, and immediately takes control of the point with his usual forehand tactics.

    I also agree with being aggressive to Nadal's forehand. That's how Blake and Berdych gave Nadal so much trouble a few years ago.
     
    #43
  44. Shangri La

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    Fed would have a better head-to-head record if a) he sucked on clay or b) Nadal didnt suck as much on hardcourt.
     
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  45. Jchurch

    Jchurch Guest

    OH no, Nadal just was always injured he is an EPIC hard court player and is much better than Federer since he won the 09 AO :wink:
     
    #45
  46. piece

    piece Professional

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    I actually think Federer needs to go more to the Nadal backhand like he did in Madrid. Though he has to be careful though not to hit it too far into the backhand corner because he doesn't want to give Nadal too much angle - all that will get him is a huge open-stanced backhand crosscourt from Nadal. Nadal's backhand is nowhere near as good unless he can really open up his stance, so as long as Federer can keep it to the backhand side without giving Nadal the angles, he should be able to get himself a forehand eventually and start ripping it, or even pull of a couple of well angled crosscourt backhands like he did against murray in the AO 10 final.


    Or, if Fed is having a good day, he could try what he did in the sets he won in AO 09 - aggressive baseline play with not too many approaches, not necessarily hitting to any Nadal wing in particular, but keeping the unforced errors low is a must. So basically for this strategy to work Federer had better be playing pretty well.
     
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  47. paulorenzo

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    federer's backhand is still legit. watch the murray match in cincy 09. he was hitting pretty hard rally shots off of that wing and was out hitting murray in backhand to backhand rallies. his forehand was even more monsterous.
     
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  48. CMM

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    Do you still take what he says seriously?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SdfhhYJsJ8

    And Nadal has enough hair
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4557103&postcount=38
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
    #48
  49. Spider

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    For starters Federer can never play like Murray EVER!

    Murray has one of of the best return of serves in the history of the game, and his two handed backhand is just deadly. Federer can never do any of these things.
     
    #49
  50. Ocean Drive

    Ocean Drive Hall of Fame

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    End of 2007? He played him once at the end of 2007 and that was the TMC where he beat Nadal (with ease) and the match earliest prior to that was at Wimbledon, where he also beat Nadal. Overall he finished 3-2 over Nadal in 2007, so I don't see where you're going with that.
     
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