Would you considered to be a **** if you called foot faults

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Torres, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    ....on your opponents during a competitive dubs match?

    Just curious as I hate these guys who continually step over the lines.
     
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  2. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Absolutely
     
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  3. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Boy. I have played a lot of USTA matches, and I have seen a lot of footfaulting.

    I have never seen it called. Not once.

    I can recall a match where the opponent called one of my players for a footfault. If it happened, it would have been her back foot (she tended to move her back foot forward and was called for this at Districts). Can't remember which opponent called it. I do remember it wasn't until they were losing in the second set, though. And it did sour the match.

    It's tricky. If you call/warn FFs early, you ruin the friendly tone of the match. You also risk that the opponents will escalate and call/warn you or your partner.

    If you wait until you are losing, it looks like a desperation gamesmanship move.

    If you wait until you are winning, it looks like running up the score or kicking someone when they are down.

    : sigh :
     
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  4. dblsonly

    dblsonly New User

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    I would call a foot fault

    I would mention to them that they are foot faulting and if it continues, I will call it. For some people, there is a definite advantage to be gained by foot faulting.
     
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  5. spinorama

    spinorama Rookie

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    You can do it, but its kinda like calling an offensive foul during a pick-up basketball game.....you will almost certainly **** people off or look like a dick
     
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  6. spot

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    I've seen it a few times. One was my team and the others were from the other team. In bevery the person call it it was doing it because they were losing and the match had got a bit contentious. In every case the person was absolutely footfaulting. In every case but one the person who was footfaulting INSISTED that they weren't footfaulting and didn't think the opponents understood the rule.

    Every person I have ever seen call it has been doing it to be a total D-bag, and only when they were losing.

    My rule of thumb is this. If it really bothers you so badly then you should just be "that guy" and call it all the time. Pick up matches, team practice, league play, when you are getting killed, or when you are rolling. If someone is consistent in calling it then I would just shrug my shoulders like I do when people try and enforce time limits strictly on defaults. They are entitled to do so and I will abide by the rules but I think it is a bit ridiculous to not use some common sense.

    I think it is pretty clear that you would find far less people willing to play with you if you took a hard line on footfaulting which probably tells you all you need to know.
     
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  7. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    +1.

    Man, I cannot imagine the horror of having someone in my tennis circle who called footfaults all the time.

    I would love to show up at my next social match and kick up a fuss about footfaults. I could come back here and tell you all how it went down.

    Alas, the price is too high. It would cost me *all* of my tennis friends.
     
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  8. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    I don't like it when obviously people try to create an advantage by stepping over the lines on each serve...I never play with those guys, for fun.

    It's a bit more tricky to call it during matches. First of all if you are receiving the serve it's kinda hard to watch for it and not the ball...
     
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  9. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    I have to admit I don't even notice, why does it bother you so much though?

    I've also never heard a foot fault being called as well and didn't even think an opponent could actually call it.
     
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  10. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Calling ff's at the club/rec level is frowned upon and will keep your from being invited to the "best" parties. In this age of moral relativism melded with passive/aggression, the best thing to do is quietly subtract the distance of the ff on your line calls to create balance.
     
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  11. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    That just makes the situation worse if you start calling line balls. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    I'd be interested to know what the actual rules are on who can call this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
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  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    My hobby is to call FFs
     
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  13. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    If the footfault is so flagrant that they can be seen clearly from the other side of the court with 100% certainty then you can warn the opponent. At that point you need to make "every effort to find an official". If No official can be found then you are allowed to call footfaults.
     
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  14. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    The above is good advice. FF calls are best done by someone not currently playing in the match. It is the one situation where even though it can be obvious to the observer, it is completely invisible to the perp, thus the quandry of the OP.
     
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  15. comeback

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    I usually never would call it. But in a USTA tournament match i was getting hurt by a guy who knew how to footfault and get in tight to volley..I recognized it early and called for a referee/linesman who confirmed most of my FF calls. but i think i had to call it first before the linesman would confirm it.
    Another time in a club league doubles match i got aced by a guy who footfaulted and i didn't call it but my partner said something to his partner..His partner then said he did occasionally footfault and they replayed the point (which we lost and the match)
     
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  16. TenS_Ace

    TenS_Ace Rookie

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    I tried calling a foot fault at a "club" level club tournament. The guy I was playing is notorious for foot faults and I knew that..I was trying to screw with his head because he totally collapses after being called on it. So I call him on it and tell the head pro watching the match. HP says...ahh it's only a club tournament move on. My next serve I launched from the service box and said "it's only" a club tournament...n'uff said..opponent's serve went to ****:twisted:
     
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  17. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    There was a long tumultuous thread on this issue.

    The fact is that you don't have any right to call an opponent's foot faulting so you need to call an umpire or use persuasion.

    In America you can call a footfault where there is no recourse to an umpire, and the offence is repeated and blatant.

    Given that the accuser and accused are likely to have different perspectives this could get interesting in America.

    But, to repeat, there is no immediate right to call a footfault and at most people's level and outside of competition there is nothing really gained by doing it or making an issue of it.
     
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  18. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    I was watching a juniors match that a friend of mine was playing in. His opponent had a flat serve that was easily over 90mph maybe over 100mph, but he foot faulted on every serve to the point that part of his foot was actually across the entire line and in the court. That is a significant advantage for him to get that big serve in.

    So in most cases I agree, a small foot fault I don't worry about. But when the foot fault is big/obvious and they have a strong enough serve that the foot fault gives them a significant advantage I think it should be called.
     
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  19. Relinquis

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    I'd call it but you have to be certain and not losing at that point.

    it is very difficult to spot foot faulting as it happens at the furthest point from you and when you would be focused on the upper part of the serve motion and the ball, not on the opponent's feet.

    tough to call them out on it unless it is very clear.
     
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  20. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    If someone is touching the line I wouldn't call it. If someone is stepping way over the line (I've seen people step 2 1/2 feet into the court), I will call them out and tell them not to do that. If they make an attempt to do better, I let it go. If they don't I'll make an issue of it and tell them that they are cheating because they are intentionally breaking the rules to gain an advantage at that point.
    Making an issue of it is better than calling a foot-fault because they can't rationalize to themselves that you are just doing it to win a point.
    Of course in a social match, I wouldn't worry about any of it.
     
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  21. gameboy

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    Footfaults are pet peeve of mine and I would love to call it, but practically every player I see at my club footfaults. I just live with it...
     
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  22. Tennisguy3000

    Tennisguy3000 Semi-Pro

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    There is a huge server in my mens 3.0 3.5 league that gets lots of aces with his serve & size 14 foot 6 inches into the court. A couple of "watch your feet in the court on your serve John" with a wryly smile greatly lessens his foot faults & aces
     
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  23. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    I don't call it, but was told I was guilty of it, but he only told me after the match (which he won handily). I appreciated being told, and I've since corrected the problem.
     
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  24. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    I've never called it, hardly ever notice it during a match, but of course when watching matches you see it all the time....

    What gets me, is when it is brought to a foot faulter's attention, why do THEY get such an attitude? I've seen it happen where the foot faulter tries to brush it off, seen a guy get angry and deny it... personal accountability is very much lacking.
     
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  25. JLyon

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    if they serve and volley and it is blatant, not just foot on line, but a foot inside the court, it should be warned and then called because they are gaining an advantage because they S/V but if they stay at baseline just play.
     
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  26. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    If it is blatant I tell the guy during changeover. It is tough because my eyes are on the ball the whole time during his serve.
     
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  27. lostinamerica

    lostinamerica Semi-Pro

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    It is my understanding in USTA matches, only an official can call footfaults.

    Once, a person went and got an offical to watch my foot faults (occasionally, I do foot fault but it is not egregious and not intentional). The official watched my service game and no call was made (I did not change anything). On my opponent's service game, the official called a foot fault at 4-5 ad-out... second serve giving me the set and match. I actually still laugh about that but don't think that was the time for an official to call a foot fault.

    Since he called the official, it was a bit ironic. I think he was mostly doing it to get in my head but he was screaming about it for an hour later. I was laughing about it an hour later.
     
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  28. sovertennis

    sovertennis Semi-Pro

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    Although I'm usually a very generous opponent, I find chronic and eggregious foot-faulters intolerable. I'll let it go for one game, then mention it to the server or his partner at the next change over (note: this pertains to dubs only; you really can't judge foot faults accurately enough to enforce them in singles). Foot faulting is sloppy technique too often used to gain an unfair advantage. I don't believe it's gamesmanship on my part to mention it.
     
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  29. Fintft

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    Exactly! The people who step into the court on each serve, they do it on purpose, trying to create an advantage...I don't agree with that approach (they should learn how to serve, like the rest of us).
     
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  30. anubis

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    In the 2013 "Friend at Court" rule book, I found this on page 13:

    "When may the receiver or the receiver’s partner call
    foot faults? The receiver or the receiver’s partner may call foot faults only after
    all reasonable efforts such as warning the server and attempting to get an
    official to the court have failed and the foot faulting is so flagrant as to be clearly
    perceptible from the receiver’s side."

    So it appears that the players calling a foot fault is a last ditch effort. USTA prefers that an official should call a foot fault. Players can only call it if it is "so obvious". And, you should warn your opponents first... perhaps during the change over.

    You know, like "hey, I noticed you foot faulted a couple of times."
     
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  31. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, that's the rule in America, but elsewhere if there is no official you either have to live with it, persuade the other fellow he has a problem or steal the same amount of advantage for yourself.



     
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  32. spot

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    You are telling me that if someone decided to set up 3 feet inside the court to serve that outside of the US there is no recourse at all within the rules? I just can't believe that could possibly be true.
     
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  33. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, you can call a linesman over.

    If there is none, you could also foot fault as well to even things out. :twisted:
     
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  34. spot

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    But in situations where there is no lines person- you are sayign there is literally no possible way within the rules to call your opponent for a footfault? That seems absolutely unbelievable.
     
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  35. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    I have to admit if someone called a foot fault on me in a match I would tell them to **** off. If it was a friendly match I would probably just leave and if it was a league match I would get someone to watch. It actually wouldn't affect me to much in a league match based on other things I have seen done. I lost a match and almost lost another this year from being angry so really do my best to keep my cool.

    By the way, I don't actually foot fault and since I don't serve and volley would actually prefer not to get too far in.
     
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  36. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    If not serving and volleying was the determining factor for foot faults, no one on tour would foot fault anymore and, and clearly they do get called occasionally. I'm not saying you foot fault, I have no idea if you do and don't care, but don't use flawed logic to try to convince us (or me at least).
     
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  37. 10smonkey

    10smonkey Rookie

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    ok i will tell my favorite foot fault story.... 30 years ago playing in the new england regional college tourney singles match on a court next to me... one guy complained to the other that he was footfaulting.... the offender clamed he never foot faulted in his life and besides the point there was no way he could see him foot fault from the other side of the net. A two minute arguement ensued and play went on the foot faulter held serve and the discussion continued on the changeover. The guy that complained walked the the other side of the court and served an ace from his OWN SERVICE BOX and pronounced the score 15-love!
     
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  38. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    I would call foot faults if the person is hitting service winners or serving and volleying. If they are clearly taking advantage of the foot faults.

    If the person is just putting the ball in play - then I'll let it go.

    Usually will play a let the the first time - but after that it's part of the rules.

    Vic Braden suggested when it's time for you to serve walk up to the service line and hammer an ace - if the other guy complains - say "So - we are calling foot faults then? "

    LOL....didn't see the funny story above!
     
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  39. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    I wasn't trying to convince you of anything and frankly don't care what you or anyone thinks. I'm not sure about flawed logic though as I made a pretty simple statement.

    "By the way, I don't actually foot fault and since I don't serve and volley would actually prefer not to get too far in."

    1. I don't actually foot fault (might be innaccurate but I don't think so)
    2. Since I don't serve and volley would actually prefer not to get too far in

    On the topic of flawed logic though, the fact that the pros foot fault does not really imply anything about the advantages or disadvantages of foot faulting.
     
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  40. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    If someone told me I was ff'ing, I would THANK them for pointing it out to me so I could fix it. It's a weird world we live in, where at the club/rec level, it's deemed un-cool to point such a minor foible out to help a fellow player--but a lot of peeps self-esteem these days is pretty fragile.
     
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  41. gameboy

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    This is a flawed logic. You admit you are not sure, so you can't declare that you don't foot fault.

    If you have ANY foot shift during your service motion and you like to toe the line at address, more likely than not you foot fault and you probably don't even realize it. The only time I see guys don't foot fault at all are when they never shuffle their feet before the contact.
     
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  42. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    I never called it but I think it's fine to call it if the he/she is serving & volleying as it gets them to the net more quickly. If they stay back foot faulting gives no advantage it seems.
     
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  43. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    A young guy I know was playing a high school match a few years ago and called an opponent for a foot fault. The opponent refused to accept it, both coaches were called over, and the coach of the guy I know told him there was no such thing as a foot fault, and the other coach nodded. So the next time he served he moved up to the service box to serve.
     
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  44. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Please. If my partner is FFing (or grunting, or returning obvious faults, or calling lines badly), please do not drag me into it. Complain to her directly.

    I'm not about to take your side or get involved or scold my partner or call her out. All you'll get out of me is a shrug and maybe some WTF hands.

    [​IMG]
     
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  45. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    In truth there is no way to be sure without looking at your feet so yes maybe that statement was flawed logic.

    I have a very compact service motion and it is actually very likely that I don't foot fault. The only motion I make with my feet is a very short step bringing my back foot to my front foot which doesn't move as I am too old to jump. I'd also add that I recently played someone who watched for this who commented I was the first person he had played in a long while that didn't foot fault.
     
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  46. tennis4josh

    tennis4josh Rookie

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    Really? If your partner made a bad line call and your opponents asked you to confirm it, won't you correct the call?

    Going back to the topic, I never call FFs in the friendly situations. But I will mention it to the person for his/her own benefit after the match. In USTA leagues most players commit FF to some extent but don't necessarily benefit from them. But there are some guys who will step something a like a foot inside the line while serving. In that case I think it's OK to call for line judges.

    I have a teammate who makes blatant foot faults. I keep reminding him even during our practice matches and he takes it in the right spirit. He starts standing little bit back to avoid FF but next day he is back to old habit.

    I think it's poor sportsmanship to not correct your FFs even after someone has pointed it out.

    -Josh
     
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  47. gameboy

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    If you have ANY shift with your feet the chances are you are foot faulting. I know you don't feel it, but every person who foot faults believe they don't foot fault either.

    If you move your feet, have another person watch you during matches to make sure you don't do it (observing just during practices may not reveal it).
     
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  48. spot

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    That is definitely not true. We have a couple guys on our team who are egregious footfaulters but just don't care enough to do anything about it. And I can't say that is wrong- they have been playing for years and haven't ever been called for it so why change?
     
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  49. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Josh, I will correct my partners line call if I am sure she is wrong.

    This will happen regardless of whether my opponents ask my opinion.
     
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  50. lstewart

    lstewart Rookie

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    I just went through this situation last Saturday, and it was pretty miserable. We were playing a men's doubles 4.5 USTA league match, indoors at the opponent's club. We were on the first court, and the viewing area was upstairs, so the spectators had a perfect view. One of our opponents was a 20 something pro from that club, and he was bombing serves as hard as i have ever faced. We lost the first set 6-3, and at the beginning of the second set the two pros from our club got our attention and said the guys was footfaulting like crazy. I told the server to watch his foot faults, and that i was going to watch for it. Very first serve he was a full foot into the court, his serve was long, but I said he foot faulted. This resulted in a big tiff, and the guy was pretty upset. I agreed to give him another first serve, which of course made no sense. I just did not want all the arguements. He again foot faulted, and I again called it. He went balistic. i asked if they could get one of their buddies off their team to come down and call if for all four of us. That's what we did, and the guy did not call any. But the server's serve totally changed, just a big kicker spin serve instead of the huge bombs. I notice foot faults when watching matches, but I never even look at the server's feet when I am playing. We ended up losing the second set 7-6, and I'm sure they guy would not pour water on me if I was on fire. But he was a huge server with a big footfault. In hindsight, if I was in that situation again, would probably ask for someone to come down to call them on all of us, and just warn the guy he was doing it without calling it. I would have ignored it, but felt pressure from my team to say something.
     
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