Wow is he slower...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by wy2sl0, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not nearly to the same degree.

    My argument is pretty straightforward, again, I'm guessing you and the rest of the Vamos brigade will understand it much better in a few years.

    Of course, because making 3 slam finals a year and 7 finals in a row is below norm for Nadal and such a clear sign of massive decline, right?

    This coming from you is indeed mighty hilarious.
     
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  2. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Do you think Nadal is as fast and agile as he was in 2008 in 2009? How about now? For you to say that Nadal hasn't declined until "very recently" is absurd. He has been in decline for the past 3 years now.


    No foolish *******s on here,though. Those *******s who insist that their guy was in decline from 2007-now,even while he was still racking up titles,and winning 8 more slams in the process. Nothing more foolish than that.
     
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  3. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Federer in 2007 was in his prime. I was just saying Federer in 2005 was better than Federer in 2007, despite having won 1 Grand Slam less.
     
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  4. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Right, since we're generalizing here, according to Nadal fans, Nadal's massive decline began in 2011 when he was aged 24 so he got Fed beat in that regard.

    Hey, that's 3 whole years buddy, that's almost double the amount of Rafa's supposed peak/prime (middle of 2008, beginning of 2009 and 2nd half of 2010).

    Before 2008 Rafa was a baby of course (and even in 2008 he was still a baby on HC) and after 2010-> massive decline.

    I know, Fed's a living legend, as if we needed anymore proof.

    Actually, Fed's level of play in 2010 AO and 2010 WTF is better by a fair margin than anything he showed this year.

    However, if # of non-slam titles is such an important indicator, we can agree Nadal's 2005 is his best career year, right? Highest # of titles won and best winning percentage (match record).

    Baby Rafa FTW!

    I feel your pain bro.

    Yeah, it's getting a bit tiresome, the disrespect tennis greats like Borg and Rosewall get from Nadal fans is downright pathetic.

    Indeed, Nadal fans here have over the years shown tendency to overanalyze Fed's interviews/statements. Not to mention the weak era threads, Mirka bashing, even insulting his two daughters, horrible stuff.

    Oh definitely, poor indoor specialist like that Federer guy can't catch a break around here, haven't you heard? The only reason he won Wimbledon was because of the roof, apparently it helped the aggressive first strike player which looking at Wimbledon tradition is really a travesty, I hope they ban the roof next year and slow down the courts/balls some more so we can see some genuine Spartan tennis with atleast 20 breaks of serve.


    There are many Fed fans around here actually, one of the main reasons this place seems to be crawling with Nadal fans is because they're very vocal and a number of them have a dozen or so accounts (Bullzie and LOLville come to mind immediately, of course there's also the Dork Knight) while Fed fans usually stick to one account (crazy I know).
     
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  5. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    lol. Dork Knight. I like that.
     
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  6. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I actually like Batman comics (well some of them atleast), I just can't stand that poster that has been constantly coming back under different usernames for years now and spew the same crap each time.
     
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  7. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    he's the troll TTW deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent provocateur. A prolific troll. A Dork Knight.
     
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  8. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, I thought that was obvious, but I can see how that might go over more than a couple heads on this board.
     
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  9. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    It did go over No1e's.
     
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  10. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    That's not surprising at all. It could've went through it just as fast because I'm pretty sure his head is hollow.
     
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  11. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    What is this nonsense you just posted... :shock: Fed is playing 10 times better then he did when he was dominating everyone in 2005 and 2006? Nadal is faster now then he ever was? Can Nadal even RUN right now? He hasn't played a match in damn near 5-6 months.


    ROFL.. nadal the best there ever was.. . Hes the best clay court player ever. But far from the best ever in general (at least at this point)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
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  12. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    No sarcasm detector? I'm just glad that you think it is nonsense.
     
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  13. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

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    When Fed was defending his best surface - ala Wimbledon and the US Open - he was at another level obviously than he is now. Nadal didn't even start doing well at HC slams until the late 00's right?

    I think for sure Nadal is a better all around player now than 6 years ago - but he isn't physically a better athlete.
     
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  14. 10is

    10is Professional

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    Well said! It's the only match that I recall from his prime that I didn't feel upset about him losing.
     
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  15. 10is

    10is Professional

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    He may be a more well-rounded player now but I still contend he was a better hard court player (despite not having won a hardcourt GS) back in 2005/2006. Barring the serve, his movement, speed and shot making were a lot more ferocious back then, belieing the "baby Rafa" myth trolls like to perpetuate. Not only were the courts faster, but the hard-court competition was also a lot better at that time.
     
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  16. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    LOL well the ****s do the same but in even more extreme reverse. Nadal was supposably in his prime way back in 2005 even though he was losing 3rd or 4th round of most non clay slams, wouldnt make a hard court slam semi until 2008, and was losing every non clay to any decent flat ball hitter Berdych, Blake, Youhzny, anyone who played that way and wasnt a crap pro basically. Yet he is still at his peak today supposably, and will remain so for years to come, especialy if Djokovic starts beating him regularly again. Meanwhile Federer was only in his prime from 2004-2007, immediately being a rickety old man at the generic age of 26 way past his prime once Nadal and Djokovic begin beating him in 2008. However if you remind of the Kuerten Roland Garros match, and the Wimbledon match vs Nadal in 2007 (despite Federer winning a match that proves Nadal can bully and completely dominate prime Federer from his domain, the baseline, on a grass court) and his prime is suddenly cut down to 2005 and 2006, basically a 1 and half or 2 year prime now. All this said and ****s trying laud Federer on this forum as having the best longevity of any player in history. :)
     
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  17. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

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    I didn't watch tennis back in 05/06 so I can't really speak on it from a yearly perspective but from the youtube matches I have seen I understand where you are coming from. I think most players 20-25 are playing their best tennis, especially from that era (Roddick 02-06, Hewitt 00-04).
     
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  18. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    The best match quality wise ever was the 1996 ATP World Championships final between Sampras and Becker.
     
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  19. wy2sl0

    wy2sl0 Hall of Fame

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    I have said it before. Unless you have had a serious case of Mono you can't speak on it - you are never the same again. I was out of commission for a year, lost weight, and my immune system has been f*cked ever since. Soderling is essentially finished completely from the same thing. The fact that Fed came back and won a slam that year is a testament to his ability, just like Nadal coming back after his knees falling apart. 08 Wimbledon was not Federer's greatest level I think that is pretty obvious.
     
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  20. 10is

    10is Professional

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    ^Well said wy2sl0!
     
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  21. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    In-form Safin had the greatest backhand of all-time. That thing is downright terrifying.
     
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  22. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    You can keep repeating this nonsense if you like,but it certainly doesn't make it true.
     
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  23. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    when was his hardcourt prime? 2008-2010?

    I'd personally say 2009-2012 but who knows if it's ended or not when he hasn't played for 4 months.

    He did great in making the finals of IW,Miami, USO 2011 and AO 2012- his hardcourt game was good but mentally he wasn't his best. You need both to win the big matches.
     
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  24. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    His hard court prime was definitely 2008-current. The idea his best hard court tennis was in 2005 is something only a laughable and braindead troll would try and argue. Of course he isnt unbeatable on hard courts even in his hard court prime, nobody said he was.
     
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  25. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    well nadal fans/fed haters always laughed at 2004-2007 being a very small period but then call Nadal's prime 4 months in 2008, and about the same in 2010. less than a year in total, and his hardcourt prime was only in that 2010 4 month period. Nadal though is a more upand down player so it is harder to say his prime and peak.

    What I would say is as he has been pretty much unbeatable from 2005 Nadal was pretty much in his prime on clay from 2005 to now, because although he didn't have a great 2009 clay season, and 2011 was ropey too, he still mostly won, so it's hard to say he was not in his prime. Mainly he's so good on clay that prime or non prime doesn't even really enter it until he has 2 terrible clay season back to back. Generally though I'd say his playing level on clay was best from 2006-2008. But the other years are then like Fed's 2007 season where he still is prime but not quite as high as the other years. On grass his prime came a bit later, 2007 - whenever (was last year a slight blip? who knows) on hardcourt I'd say from 2009 - 2012.

    For Federer it's generally 2004 - 2007, though 2007 showed a definite tail off in form, so I don't feel bad that Nadal took Federer to a 5th set at Wimbledon. With the loss to Guga, I don't think fed started to hit his clay prime til 2005 (2005-2009 possibly - 2009 wasn't a great RG and 2008 was terrible but overall he still played fairly good on clay those years) and Guga is a great clay player, not a mug. So again that's not a loss i feel the need to defend.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
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  26. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

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    I'm sorry but this statement doesn't make any sense. The slower the surface, the more movement/stamina/physical fitness oriented the tennis becomes.
    It is on FASTER surfaces that shotmaking can make up for decline in movement...not on slow surfaces.
    I know this from personal experience as well as watching others play...so the bolded part seems very counter intuitive to me.
     
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  27. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    I certainly agree that Joeri's statement is basically incorrect. I'm sure all those who have played a considerable amount of tennis will disagree with it as well.
     
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  28. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    Doesn't it depend on your comparative advantage vs the opponent? So against a guy like berdych/delpo/Tsonga the slower surfaces help you get to their bigger shots as you have more time than you would on a faster surface. Feds comparative advantage is not just his offensive skills but also his defense. However vs Nadal/djoko/Murray where Feds comparative advantage is purely offensive skills, slower surfaces hurt him.
     
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  29. Dark Magician

    Dark Magician Professional

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    Yeah but then it would have a disadvantage to most Pros except Berdych/Delpo/Tsonga not just Federer. On top of that all the 3 arent that consistent!
     
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  30. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    This is true, but depends on who you are playing. Against big power players like Berdych, Tsonga etc it hurts him now. Since he can no longer track down their shots, does not return as well and is not es explosive. It often comes down to breakers. You are right though it hurts him more in general.


    The 2005 Australian Open was a great match. Very high quality. Safin was really a complete player back then. Even so Federer should have probably won the match in 4 sets and was very unlucky not to. The deciding factor in the fifth set was fitness. Federer did not have the legs in the fifth or else it would have been closer.

    Watch a Federer vs Gonzalez match or against Ancic at Wimbledon to see just how much his speed has deteriorated. He is no where near as quick as he once was.
     
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  31. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    LOL :)

    Don't see how that is more extreme reverse, say Fed fans claim Nadal's prime started in 2005 and is still lasting, Nadal fans claim Fed's prime started and is still lasting to this day.


    But once again, that's still 4(!) whole years :).

    What's this coming down to basically is, ****s are saying Nadal's prime has lasted 8 years (and counting), Fed's prime was 4 years and Fed massively declined at the age of 26-27.

    Nards on the other hand are claiming Fed's prime has lasted 10 years, Nadal's prime was a year and and some change and that he massively declined at the age of 24-25. it's clear who's worse :)

    Yes, but 2 year prime >>> 4 months of 2008, 6 months of 2010 and 1 month of 2009 of prime tennis.

    I can't accept a 1 and a half year prime regarding Fed because I've never seen a Fed fan claim Fed wasn't in his prime in both 2005 and 2006.

    Have to agree on that one, even looking at the Open Era alone, Agassi, Connors and Laver clearly outclass him in that regard (especially if Wimbledon 2012 turns out to be his last slam).
     
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