WOW, no money in tennis at all hardly.......

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Bjorn99, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,443
    My two proteges are starting to question whether there is enough money in tennis. Both of them are being begged to go into football and basketball programs and both of them could probably make a career in one or the other. And yes, due to the phenomenal athletes that they are, and the esoteric training that they have undergone.

    I don't want to deprive anyone of their rightful earnings and place in the sports pantheon, but I would much prefer to see them stay in tennis. But realistically, how many men players make any real money in the world? Top ten? twenty? I see what the fiftieth player typically makes, and it is cheeze. Can they supplement that? I mean 500 K Gross? How much do they spend to make that? 280? That is complete peanuts. What a joke this sport is that way? I mean money isn't everything, but this is not great money.
     
    #1
  2. andyroddick's mojo

    andyroddick's mojo Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    913
    Top 100 makes about average wage, Top 50 makes pretty good, and Top 10 are probably millionaires. For me, and hopefully for everyone, they should only pursue tennis if they truly LOVE it. I don't care if I'm number 1 and get paid 100 million dollars or if i only make 40 K a year, as long as its good enough to get by, and I'm enjoying it, I would love to pursue tennis as a career. Sadly though, it also requires a great amount of talent and atheletic ability, which i do not have.
     
    #2
  3. Sagittar

    Sagittar Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,692
    Location:
    center of the world
    unfortunatly yes , best optimistic guess is that the top 20:25 players who do make real money (remember the endorsement deals as well) and the rest try their best just to keep themselves on the tour :(
     
    #3
  4. power_play21

    power_play21 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Messages:
    679
    well buddy you must be making a lot of frikin money because your standards are god damn high.

    how many people in the world are making over 100K a year? not a whole lot.
     
    #4
  5. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,885
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    What's the top 200th doctor making? Im gussing somewhere between 1-2 million$. Same with lawyer, maybe more. Meanwhile the 200th ATP pro is barely making 50k.
     
    #5
  6. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,468
    That's why if you were smart, you'd go into law or medicine instead of tennis as a career.
     
    #6
  7. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    He's made a TON of money from tennis, and he dates some of the world's most beautiful women, so you better believe him when he says that he's got a couple of superfreak athletes just waiting to cash in-they may even just play all three pro sports-bb, football and tennis. That's how good Bjorn's proteges are. So $500K is just not enough, especially given the double secret training they've received. So don't EVEN question Bjorn on this.
     
    #7
  8. Superior_Forehand

    Superior_Forehand Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    299
    ugg, 220 k a year is so little money! I fear my young proteges may starve to death on such a low wage.
     
    #8
  9. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    6,297
    I agree with all of the above. There is much more money in sports like football, soccer, basketball.....and many many other sports than tennis. The 100th-best footballer in one of the two 'major' codes here in (small) Australia probably earns a similar to or greater income than the 100th ranked tennis player in the world.

    Bjorn99, you claim that you are, well, all of the things that Phil said and more. You have claimed you had a shot at a career as tennis player but elected not to (if I remember correctly). You claim you know many ex-pros well, even by their nicknames. You claim to be a guru coach and an astute businessman.

    I have two questions for you, and I even look forward to these answers. To ask these questions requires me to believe every claim you have made, so I will. I'll believe you've partied with the great players, you could have been a pro, you've watched training sessions of the legends. I believe you've made millions and are worth more than most of the population and that you are a leading thinking and a successful businessman. But I now ask:

    1. How is it that you are posting the above as if it is some sort of revelation, how is it that the above now changes things? Someone in your position, with your tennis experience, tennis contacts and business acumen, you must have known the above as it hasn't changed (if anything, it's improved over the years, the money has slowly leaked down the ranks, if only a little). I'm surprised at the sudden change, I would have thought you would have considered all of the above many months / years ago.

    2. Your proteges were on track to decimate all records and Federer. Whilst there is more money for a 100th 'ranked' football or basketball player in the US (no doubt) than the 100th ranked tennis player, there is much more money, fame, etc for the biggest and greatest. Why have you suddenly re-rated their abilities?
     
    #9
  10. federer_nadal

    federer_nadal Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,288
    just tell them if they go pro they can come back to a club and drop into a very comfortable paying job as a club pro/coach after, which they cant really do with the other sports. Tennis is one of the few sports where if you go pro it opens up many opportunities for the rest of your life.

    Also could you please tell us what ranking these proteges are? what NTRP they are? how good they are?
     
    #10
  11. Kalin

    Kalin Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,455
    Given their pedigree here's the road to success:

    1. Teach them how to pitch a baseball, one left-handed, one right-handed. Or better, teach them both to use both hands.

    For starters, I suggest they develop 102-107 MPH rising heat, 97-99 with movement, a 89-94 MPH slider, a 12-to-6 curve, a change-up, a splitter, a knuckleball and a screwball. They can develop further from there.

    2. Call Scott Boras, if he doesn't pick-up call Steinbrenner directly. 1-800-Yankmees.

    3. Market them as a tag-team, like a Maddux-Glavine but with tons more power. Ask for 15 years/500 mil per head and negotiate it down to 13/390,000,000 with a no-trade clause.

    4. Don't forget to ask for free tickets and a hat. Don't forget the hat.

    You can thank me later
     
    #11
  12. alienhamster

    alienhamster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,658
    Bjorn also cured my cervical cancer. And I don't even have a cervix!
     
    #12
  13. cghipp

    cghipp Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,282
    ROTFL! Classic...
     
    #13
  14. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,503
    Location:
    So Cal
    Bjorn needs to explain the concept of 'groupies' to his young charges. Hard to put a price on the ability to pick up ***** at the hotel bar with "hey babe, I'm a tennis pro."

    Then you've got all the free towels at the tournament - to be sold on **** after the tournament...
     
    #14
  15. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,348
    There is endorsement money also. For a lot of players, its more than the money earned actually hitting a ball at a tournament.
     
    #15
  16. armand

    armand Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,747
    Location:
    RDS001 90: SPPP 1.18 @ 63/61
    In addition to the lower earnings, tennis players also have a smaller window to make all their money because tennis players typically retire much earlier than other sports.

    Agassi was a freak to play well at 36 but it's not out of the ordinary to see 36 in basketball, footbal, futbol, hockey, poker etc...
     
    #16
  17. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,573
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    I just love to read something written by someone who speaks a different dialect of English. Do y'all realize how hard it is for an American to work the word "whilst" into a conversation without being in a theatrical production?

    Oh, and I would be very interested to hear the reply to these well stated questions. I seriously doubt any substantive answers are forthcoming however.
     
    #17
  18. sypl

    sypl Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    395
    Santa Clause is real!
     
    #18
  19. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    992
    a teacher or even a garbage collector makes around 30k a year (grossly). a nurse will make more than twice that amount and a doctor or lawyer will make 3 times as much, which is around 90k. if he is a big-time lawyer he can make above 100+k. so definitely, for a tennis player to make a net of 280k a year means that he can live a more than comfortable life, support a family, etc.

    but contrary to the speculations on this thread, a player making a net of 280k a year is probably ranked in the top 50. there was an article in tennis magazine where they computed the net income of the hypothetical 100th ranked male tennis player and here is how they computed:

    Income:
    Tournament winnings......$215,000
    Endorsements...............$15,000

    Expenses:
    Coach...........................$90,000
    Travel............................$25,000
    Food.............................$6,000
    Racquet stringing
    and customization..........$5,000
    Miscellaneous
    (laptop, cellphone, etc.)..$3,000
    Taxes...........................$54,000

    Take-home pay: $47,000

    Source: ATP

    remember that the 47,000 is already the net income so it is actually a very good income.
     
    #19
  20. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,319
    Location:
    Connecticut
    From those numbers, I get $71,000 in profit (before considering taxes). so $71,000 would be taxable income, I doubt his taxes would be 54,000 on 71,000 of income. (I see the mistake, you said 54K, but meant 24K, which is more reasonable, and I agree).

    It is not much money, but after being a top 100 pro, you can probably work as a club pro, how much do they make?


     
    #20
  21. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    Coaching makes a lot more money than that, sometimes...
     
    #21
  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,066
    If they quit tennis, we will never be able to test Bjorn's claims. Is this what he is setting us up for?
     
    #22
  23. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    12,573
    Location:
    at the bottom of every hill I come to
    I think Bjorn's claims are just that.
     
    #23
  24. Mick

    Mick Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    8,363
    i remember lesson #1 in business school was how much you make is not as important as how much you spend (e.g. Michael Jackson makes millions but he spends more than what he takes in)
     
    #24
  25. ibringtheHEAT

    ibringtheHEAT Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    688
    Location:
    Texas
    true that my brother
     
    #25
  26. Wondertoy

    Wondertoy Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    869
    True that, double true. Tennis is a joke compared to soccer, baseball, basketball and football. You would have to truly love the sport to pursue it. However, tennis is one of the few sports where you can excel without physical size. Along with pitching and golf, you don't need the physical presence that is required in other sports so that may be a major consideration. As far as white collar work, not too many people can be investment bankers and wall streeters. They have a limited applicant pool. First you have to excel in college then get into a highly ranked B-school before you can actually get an interview and a long shot job on wall street. Also doctors don't make what they used to because goverment paperwork and the HMO's have whittled their earnings. So whatever they do, they should hve a true passion for it or they will never succeed anyways.
     
    #26
  27. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,278
    I can't think of many sports which allow you to travel the WORLD (and pretty leisurely at that) and play. They are not in domestic leagues.
     
    #27
  28. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    Yeah, compared to American team sports, not many in the ATP make the type of money we associate with pro athletes. Even a guy who is 50th in the world, he will most likely have to find a job to keep making money after retirement. The 50th highest paid guy in baseball makes more in 1 year, if not in a few months, what the 50th ranked tennis player will make in his entire career.
     
    #28
  29. Craig Sheppard

    Craig Sheppard Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,361
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    True, but tennis is a niche sport. Baseball has 32 teams which have millions of fans watch them per year... Same with football, 32 teams with sold out stadiums for 20 weeks a year. Tennis has 4 huge tournaments, a handful of somewhat big ones (Indian Wells, Miami, Rome, etc...), another handful a notch below that (other Masters, etc..) So you're looking at MAYBE going to 1 tournament a year, IF there is a tournament in your area... otherwise, you're watching on TV. Most people won't travel to go watch a tennis tournament, unless it's a big trip to the Open or something like that. It's just the architecture of the sport, it's not going to be able to accommodate the same number of fans as the major US sports, or global soccer.

    The only way tennis could draw like a team sport is if everyone got together to join the "Professional Tennis Association" (or something thereabouts), and everyone got transported to each tour stop on a team airplane, stayed at a team hotel, etc. Basically treat each individual player as a team member of one giant tennis team. Maybe only take the top 64. Perhaps economies of scale and other efficiencies could come into play. The next tier of 64 players would go to a "minor league" tour, similar to AAA baseball. All of the tour stops would be dictated to the players, and each stop would be guaranteed of a certain card of players (unless they were injured of course).
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2007
    #29
  30. Heavy Metal Tennis Star

    Heavy Metal Tennis Star Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    U.S. And A.
    the reason bball, mlb, nfl players make more money is because they are franchised, they have managers that pay them to win games, tennis players dont, but dont get me wrong, there are plenty money in tennis, if u look at it in a tourney by tourney calculation, not annualy.
     
    #30
  31. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,625
    That's only for ATP events, don't include Davis Cup. Many top ranked players in their own countries regardless of their ATP ranking make more money playing for their country than from playing on ATP tour.
     
    #31
  32. Ronnie92

    Ronnie92 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Chicago
    The top 20 baseball players in the world make anywhere from 10-50 mill a year. Relative to other sports, tennis players make jack ****. This is why, although I want to play D1 tennis, I'm going to med school to become a surgeon.
     
    #32
  33. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,241
    Wow Bjorn99 hasn't replied forever.
     
    #33
  34. Polaris

    Polaris Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,313
    He is sitting back, enjoying the fun, and licking his chops at the fact that so many well-meaning tennis enthusiasts took his bait.

    And Phil, you also forgot that, in addition to the ton of money Bjorn has made from coaching tennis, he has made even more from betting/gambling. He said so himself. ;)
     
    #34
  35. caulcano

    caulcano Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,637
    Some players will probably resort to playing doubles to earn a little more aswell.
     
    #35
  36. Wondertoy

    Wondertoy Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    869
    You better become a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist because your family doctor doesn't make jack**** these days. They'll pay to get bigger boobs, smaller noses and clear skin but they won't pay to get healthy!
     
    #36
  37. spadesss

    spadesss Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    403
    most earnings go toward traveling expense and paying off the coach.
    a journey player doesn't get much and they NEED to share rooms with other players, share cab, share everything they can to save a dime.
    most players, top 100 get free stuff eqipement while the top players get nice endosement. the endosement is where the money is. this is not just tennis but any other sports. it helps to have a nice figure (ANNA K).

    oh yah, factor in the tax.
    if you make $100,000. uncle sam in the states tax around 33%. now you are down to $66,000. the player pays for coach's travel and meal on top on the coach's salary. plane tickets aint cheap either.

    only the top players (or good looking players) get endorsements and live the rich live. others have to earn their living on their performance and results.
     
    #37
  38. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    7,725
    You should teach them how to be world class gamblers like yourself if their tennis careers don't work out.
     
    #38
  39. DashaandSafin

    DashaandSafin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,037
    Why do we feed the troll? Bjorn is a joke. He has no proof to back up his claims of his protoge's or his own sucess. Why don't we just ban him?

    And before you argue that I'm going off on a tangent, the topic has been discussed numerous times anyway. No one outside of....well the small tennis community really cares about tennis anyway. Thats why it doesn't generate much money and therefore the players get paid crap.
     
    #39
  40. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,278

    hence, why a lot of tennis players live in monte carlo. no taxes!
     
    #40
  41. a guy

    a guy Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    570

    Stop talking out of your arse.
     
    #41
  42. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,223
    Location:
    Cocos Islands, WA
    Just because he's pop'd your wannabe pro fantasy bubble doesn't give you the right to diss the guy.
     
    #42
  43. ATXtennisaddict

    ATXtennisaddict Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,278
    I'd prefer to be a tennis player over any other pro sport. Sure it might be tough but it's relaxed, you make plenty of friends around, u travel...
     
    #43
  44. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,443
    Tennis is a great sport, no doubt, but it is perhaps the most torturous game out there. The heat, the phenomenal phsyical drain, the mental stress, the chase for points, and the NO off season, combine to make this sport tougher than any sport except boxing. Methinks. And there is NO money anymore.

    Which surprises me, and makes me want to start a new thread.
     
    #44
  45. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,439
    I think you might be confusing tennis with golf. Relaxed? Not if you hope to more than a college player. Ever seen any of the stories or shows about what journeymen go through just to make ends meet? Yikes.

    Surprising that Bjorn doesn't remember this from the days when he used to play on the tour.
     
    #45
  46. a guy

    a guy Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    570
    Oh dear...
     
    #46
  47. redsoxjad

    redsoxjad New User

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    One issue worth considering is "Where are these pro players living or at least maintaining a residence?"

    Making 100K and living in many countries = good times. Making 100K and living in many major US cities = not living like a celebrity.
     
    #47
  48. Dot

    Dot New User

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Canada West Coast
    Safin

    forget the $$$ look in Marat Safin's player's box to figure out why you want to be a tennis pro
     
    #48
  49. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,443
    When I was playing I was on a court beside Kafelnikov and Safin. I was grousing to my hitting partner about how I had to put out 1500 plus a week just to make a dollar. Safin strode over, good naturedly and said WHAT???? I spend over 65K a week US(when the US was a lot higher) just keeping my entourage going!!! And Kafelnikov admitted that his nut was close to 35K a week.

    I looked carefully at Marat, and saw a guy who literally could be broke in a few more years. Some people just live beyond their means. And lets face it, this guy could be out of the game at ANY time. ANY time.

    I am telling you, I am really getting into the fine tuning before my guys go pro, and I am starting to wonder if it is worth getting them to that level. It might be better to just let them have a great time and train hard and see where the chips fall. The money seems okay, but the expenses have gone out of whack.

    That is why I am trying to develop certain shots and characterization in these lads, that might, just might allow them to really succeed,and EARN.
     
    #49
  50. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Messages:
    3,033
    Why are food and miscellaneous expenses subtracted to get net take home pay? These are things everyone has to pay for, I don't subtract $6,000 for food when I talk about how much money I take home.
     
    #50

Share This Page