Wozniacki on pay.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Paul Murphy, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,021
    Caroline Wozniacki tells the Telegraph that she thinks that tennis players are underpaid in comparison to other athletes. The 21-year-old Dane has earned around $13 million in prize money during her career, and is estimated to make at least $8 million per year off the court from endorsements. "I think tennis players are actually underpaid, but I might be a little biased. I like to think we are rewarded for the hard work we put in," said Wozniacki, who added that she is in favor of equal prize money.

    Tennis.com

    I think it's appalling that women get the same as men in majors.
    Some of those hour-long AO finals of recent years are as good an example as any of the extraordinarily good deal the women get.
     
    #1
  2. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,204
    Location:
    Toronto
    She doesn't deserve even more money......maybe milking McIlroy isn't enough.
     
    #2
  3. axel89

    axel89 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    hahhaa loved the last bit. Anyways i think singles is payed fine but doubles is payed wayyyy too less 200k for a grand slam title is too little
     
    #3
  4. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    The people who are underpaid are the world's workers. The top sport athletes are obscenely overpaid.
     
    #4
  5. tennisoh

    tennisoh Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    427
    Stop watching and paying attention to them (along with all the other sports fans), and they will stop making the type of money they do.
     
    #5
  6. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,926
    The average tennis player's salary is probably less than it should be compared to what the sport earns.

    From memory, 30% of the amount a tournament earns paid as prize money is what tennis players want.

    They earn only slightly more than half that whereas basketballers get 50%.
     
    #6
  7. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,097
    the bottom line here is what the journeyman (journeyperson? :)) pros, both ATP and WTA actually earn.

    Any player ranked outside the top 100 struggles to make ends meet, fact. (ok, the ones reliant on their income from tennis, anyway)

    This is just not the case in other high profile professional sports.

    Perhaps it is too simplistic to suggest a more equitable distribution of prizemoney to allow some of the money to filter down to the Challenger and Furures circuits, but surely it is a start.
    Do the top guys really need to earn literally millions for winning a major when a player ranked around 130 (Rajeev Ram) battles through to a Challenger final in a forgotten corner of the world and pockets a lofty $3000 dollars?

    No wonder so many promising juniors don't 'make it', why would you bother??
     
    #7
  8. tennisoh

    tennisoh Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    427
    I don't know how you would justify it though. At ATP tournaments, when a couple of guys ranked in the 80-120 range go at it, how many people go and watch on court 7? 100 if you are lucky?

    It's just the way things are. I have no clue why Wozniacki is complaining though. For women, the sport of tennis is about the most lucrative out there. The top 5-10 women basketball players have to play seasons in the USA and Europe to make maybe 200K a year or so.
     
    #8
  9. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    5,300
    Location:
    TX
    Talking about golf -- how is that even a sport/hard work??? Talking about heavily OVERpaid...
    Her point is totally valid if you compare the two
     
    #9
  10. Terre Battu

    Terre Battu Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    SF, CA
    Players that win slams make more $$$$!!!!
     
    #10
  11. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,097
    gosh, I hadn't thought of it that way.

    ok, that's fine, let's just put the whole prizemoney pool aside for the winners, that'll surely make certain the future of our sport is secured...
     
    #11
  12. ben123

    ben123 Professional

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,172
    comments like this are just stupid.
    sorry but every idiot can be a "worker" on this planet. you dont even have to be smart to be a doctor or something you just have to work in school. thats the difference between jobs like this go ahead and be a pro athlete if you think they are overpaid. but the thing is you cant. i see these comments around here all the time, obviously because ppl complain about their life, well then you shouldve done more. if you want to earn the big money dont be a worker. if your work is something that everyone else could also do then you wont earn much.

    n wozniacki was reffering to the difference in comparison with other sports. and yes tennis players are underpaid. while the first comment was certainly very entertaining, woz is not just talking about herself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
    #12
  13. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,032
    Uh huh. Lindsey Vonn, one of the best racers of all time, had a phenomenal World Cup season. Know what she got in prize money for winning a ton of races and the overall World Cup? 600,000 dollars...Caroline, you just lost a fan...
     
    #13
  14. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    4,210
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    Really:roll:?

    That shows how little you know about that profession.

    Funny comment, given, that she is actually the epitome of the big earner, who made it big just by working hard and with no exceptional qualities in terms of talent or game style.

    Ontopic:

    Well, she could buy some tournament in Danemark and then distribute 50% of the earnings amongst the players, that participate. See how it goes after that. I am sure such tournament will become quite popular amongst the top pros. Until then, she is whining about something, she knows nothing about.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
    #14
  15. Spider

    Spider Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,247
    Location:
    UK
    Probably her inability to win slam events and her own belief that she will never win one, has lead her to make this statement.
     
    #15
  16. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Banned
    Equal =/= Same

    I think Caroline ought to quit tennis and take up lawn bowling.

    I hear they pay a lot over there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
    #16
  17. PSNELKE

    PSNELKE Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,134
    She's just mad that her boy earns more than here.

    I still think woman tennis players are overpaid, especially considering that they get as much prize money as men.
     
    #17
  18. aceroberts13

    aceroberts13 Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,029
    Location:
    100 Miles Away; Ready to Strike
    I will never ever ever ever ever never under any circumstances give any credence to a proffessional athlete compalining about salary. Never.

    You are playing a sport or game for a living. Quit whining.
     
    #18
  19. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,590
    Too much attention is paid to these comments. The press will interview someone, ask "do you think tennis players are underpaid?" and then run a story as if the player was on some sort of crusade when she was just answering a question.
     
    #19
  20. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,356
    How much does the top guy in the NFL make?

    How much does the top guy in MLB make?

    How much doe sthe top guy in the NBA make?

    How much does the top guy in the EPL make?

    Now.. how much does the top guy in tennis make?

    For Part 2, answer all of these questions replacing "top guy" with "average guy."

    For a bonus exercise, answer all of these questions with "league minimum guy."

    You will find that tennis is probably at the bottom of the list in all 3 lists. By a significant margin.
     
    #20
  21. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,590
    Sports span a huge range; how much does the average professional soccer player in the US make? Not much, I imagine. The average billiards player makes about 30,000 a year. Arena football? Not much, I imagine. It makes little sense for tennis players to compare themselves to major league team sports that generate enormous amounts of revenue, in the billions.
     
    #21
  22. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686
    Ok,so based on your logic,you don't have to be smart to be a doctor,but you have to be smart to swing a racket at a tennis ball all day? Woz couldn't make it through community college much less medical school.
     
    #22
  23. 6-2/6-4/6-0

    6-2/6-4/6-0 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    about 5000 feet up...
    A few thoughts coming from the perspective of a business owner:

    1. Men's tennis draws a much larger audience, for a longer period of time therefore providing more viewer impressions per match than a women's match. My estimate would be about 5x, but that is abject speculation. Because the revenue that is generated by events is what fuels prize money, I think it is reasonable to pay the men more (I look at it like a salesman's commission - and ultimately that is what prize money at a sporting event is...).

    2. There is no question that women's tennis is further hampered by the shrieks and wails of a number of the top players. Personally, I change the channel as soon as I hear the first one - that's if I've bothered to tune in because I wasn't sure if it was a couple of shriekers playing or not. They are losing sponsors, they are losing viewership, and then they throw temper tantrums when someone mentions that it's somewhat their fault because of their infernal racket. If I was the WTA I'd be throwing out point penalties like candy at a parade to get this under control - but the wimps are running the asylum so it doesn't seem like that's going to happen any time soon...

    3. If tournaments were forced to give equal pay to women and men all along the way, I would imagine that a number of them would simply drop the women's event because the marginal revenue increase of a non-slam women's draw at a tournament probably doesn't make that something that is worth it to a lot of them.

    4. While their playing career may be short, they are making (at the top of the sport, which are the ones that are always quoted as complaining) more in a year than a lot of people do in a life time. I always have a hard time with millionaires complaining that they aren't paid enough.

    5. If the women have such a big problem with the prize money, why don't they band together and boycott the tournaments that don't pay them what they feel they are worth? Then, the tournament directors have some choices - pay more, invite lower ranked players who will appreciate the prize money on offer, or can the woman's draw at the tournament.

    There are ways to determine what the truth of a situation is, and whining is never one of them. If women truly deserve equal money, then show us that - prove it. If they prove it, then tournament directors better pay up.

    MOST IMPORTANTLY - I am a huge advocate for women in sport and equal pay for equal work. I don't think male ice skaters or gymnasts should probably be paid as much as female ice skaters or gymnasts because they are (I would expect) dramatically lower in terms of sales power and audience draw.

    With professional sports payouts are ultimately about being able to sell stuff to people, and selling advertising/tv rights/sponsorship to pay the bills. Whoever is responsible for bringing in the dollars, should be paid the dollars...
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
    #23
  24. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,265
    Tennis is totally different. Usually countries and regions pay for their entire tennis programs through funding from these tournaments. Basketball, Football, Baseball have solid funding programs from grade school, college, minors, pros etc. Tennis doesn’t have this structure. College Football can support itself through selling tickets and TV and sponsors etc. College Tennis is a complete zero that takes money from other areas that make profits. So while basketball players may make a higher %, overall basketball as a whole makes money from far more sources than tennis.
     
    #24
  25. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,173
    I enjoy women's tennis more than men's. But the pay should be based on an honest assessment of the game. If the men bring more interest to the game (and sell more tickets and advertising), the men should make more. If the women bring more interest to the game and sell more tickets and advertising, the women should make more.
    Won't ever be that way again, though.
     
    #25
  26. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,265
    Tournaments are a private business and players are independent contractors. The tournaments pay what they want to pay. If the players don’t like it they don’t have to play or even play on the ATP tour if they don’t want to. I hear there’s a great $1000 Open event next week that I’m sure Federer will be rushing to cash in on. If women made 100x what the men make who cares. Why does it matter, it’s not your tax dollars. If businesses make poor decisions they go bankrupt. If tennis tournaments were suffering because they were overpaying women players they would lower the prize money.
     
    #26
  27. ClairHarmony

    ClairHarmony Rookie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    102
    Wozniaki is a life loving, fun loving, huggy, huggy, smushy ESFP who lives in the moment, lives for now, celelebrates life now...and likely would not ordinarily endeavor toward the laborious, drawn out nature of "professional" school. Which? Is fine. She'd likely make a vividly dressed caterer in some flower dress. It's not intelligence she'd be lacking. An ESFP that is pushed to do well academically, by your typical "overachiever" parents can/will frequently do just that...up until, they can "escape" and flee, even elite colleges have their fair share of party hardy types...never so many opportunities to party. At this point, it's not intelligence that's lacking...it's an ever growing disfascination with the blah, blah, blah nature of academia...HOW exactly is this *pertinent*/relevant to the REAL world they begin to think...blah, blah, blah, snooty, snooty, snooty, fancy talk, yah, yah, yah...they begin to tune out, check out, it's very common...as soon as the parents can no longer keep the ESFP go love like living for the NOW, can no longer keep their ESFP on a taut leash no more.

    Not saying, ESFP's don't frequently do great in sports, and show their determination, grit, and stick-to-it-ness there...but see what happened to a classic ESFP flame-out story in Capriati. That was just a predictable, textbook, case of flame out for an ESFP...just as Borg going all irresponsible, "It's not so much what they do to you, but what they don't," was for an ISFP, when he went off the bonker more than once in the business realm.

    You know, when all goes bad, an ESFP like Capriati would much rather snort coke with an OPEN credit card to nobody, no one cares about, "low-lifes" than just about any other type.

    Not many would cut ties to previous "class" bonds *just like that*, in the way that Capriati did...but an ESFP definitely would.

    Too much elitism in the world, and cutting down of the "abilities," "faculties," and whatever else you want to call it about people in this world. Appreciate people for how they are, don't force square pegs into round holes, *even if you can.* ...which, parents are notoriously apt to do. You could just create combustion...when clear pastways would do. Looking back, most would go about it differently, *IF ONLY* they understood then.

    A world without event planners...something which ESFP's especially "get up" for with an unrivaled enthusiasm...would, quite frankly, suck monkey moth balls.

    It's so incredibly easy to inadvertantly ruin lives, the lives all the way around, when respecting life like, as though it were the lowest common denunciator.

    It takes little to tear down, and just as little to build back up. Hubris is the one stand-up trait none of us will have to go digging for in our grave...humility must become a constant craving. We our each our own torch, fuel it wisely.

    Suffice it to say, there ARE no doubt "smarter," "mo better, yo ho," versions of each and every archetype among us. You know what they say, everyone's got a twin somewhere...yup, that means that for every Mary Ann and Ginger, there's *2x*...yeahhhh, foxy, mama, ladies, babies, sexy womanz...there's at least 2 look alikes for every foxy, mamy, lady, babies...you get the point. Life is grand.

    Those of above-average intelligence (which, depending on how elitist one considers one self, and the breadth of "class" divisions to which one has been exposed), no matter their archetype, would (given enough motivation, or whipped enough times) find it possible..."he/she...could...go...all...the...way...through professional elitist schools...past the touchdown line...past the circle K...down to the seedy motel downtown, to high-5 waning prostitutes, and drunk pools of quickly-slowly disembowerling into know-nothings, don't care no mores..." we could go through life slapping anyone whose intelligence is deemed less than yours, but why? When a simple go, go-goo!!! sure pat on the back, filled in good faith, not you're fired, you're worthless, would do.

    If you're "above average" *enough*, one of the "lucky" ones to fall into that category of life, then yeah, you're probably "capapble" of becoming the next adopted member of the association of smarty, do-goody, panties with ties or whatever, that every professional school full of elite truffle brains seems to culminate in these days. But, then what? It's not a licensce to think you're smarter, and therefore better than everyone now, is it? "Well, yeah, because I went to good ol' Harmon'**** college; it's kind of fact, it's proven, we all know a dummy professional athlete devoting their life to being best in the planet at something could not possibly do what I do, no way, haha, she's no more than community college level, so yeah, there, and...I feel bad for anyone in community college without means, but big 'dreams,' in their own way, today; to be, to become, to feel, so insulted today, why should I even try anymore? If to the outside world, I am stupid,teetering on the illegible, ineligible, l-*edge* of defeat...ooh, this don't look like it's going to end good...if we must bully or denounce, because we're only human; then, ask *why?* A little bit deafening, but never redundant in those imbued, let the interest acrue, end quote."
     
    #27
  28. wings56

    wings56 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    923
    you lost me at ESFP
     
    #28
  29. wings56

    wings56 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    923
    and then the internet informed of what an ESFP is, making me feel...as if I am an ESFP.
     
    #29
  30. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,491
    Location:
    Tennis Courts!
    If she complains so much about it, maybe she should try arena football as a female, where they make $100 per game. (source: Stacy Agee - WPFL)
     
    #30
  31. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,129
    She didn't even clarify, though, so you can't directly say that she is complaining about her own pay. Maybe she could be implying that it should be more equally distributed, i.e. that she should in particular be paid a little bit less. But that quote itself doesn't clarify it.
     
    #31
  32. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    887
    Cearly she's not referring to her own current situation as being underpaid. She's referring to the 1,000 or so ATP and WTA touring pros. An estimated 70% are losing money or barely making a living. I'd estimate the 100th ranked ATP player would net about 90k a year after expenses. Not much for a year round profession requiring world travel. I wouldn't be surprised that those ranked worse than 200 are not making any money or losing money. These are arguably the best overall individual athletes in the world in any sport so it seems unfair. But the revenue is just not there for the 200th ranked players. Many more people will pay to watch soccer, baseball, football, basketball, hockey so those athletes can be paid much better. Individual sports don't seem to do well compared to team sports. Even men's golf is pretty tough. I'm not sure what tennis tour players could do to increase the money pot. At least the 100th ranked tennis players do better than players at same rank at pro bowling, ladies golf, pro boxing, mma, and some others.

    These are just thoughts off the top of my head. Others may know the precise numbers better then me.
     
    #32
  33. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    7,167
    Location:
    Serbia, Belgrade
    She should be more then satisfied for how much money she earned with her limited game, one could easily say she overachieved so much due to miserable lack of depth these days in WTA and women are even getting payed same or maybe even more then men who play at much stronger level.
     
    #33
  34. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,265
    we've already established that people at the top like Nadal or Federer that complain about prize money are not complaining about their own situation but that of 300-400 other professionals on tour full time that not only can they not afford to sustain themselves but most run at a deficit hoping that one day they can make it big and actually make a few bucks
     
    #34
  35. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,173
    I am assuming you quoted my post to agree with me, as you are saying the same things I am.
     
    #35
  36. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,097
    yes, which is more than any futures or challenger player makes unless they actually win..

    the point here is the overall distribution of the revenue stream. Too much is going to the top handful at teh expense of teh player base as a whole.

    it isn't fair to be the number 200 ranked player in the world at a professional sport and be unable to make a living.
     
    #36
  37. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,333
    Sounds about right.

    Anyone care to dig up what the 200th ranked player in the ATP is making and compare it to the 200th best player in the NHL? maybe the NBA? These journeymen are probably making 5 digit salaries while the 200th best NBA player is making millions.
     
    #37
  38. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    5,300
    Location:
    TX
    And you know this...HOW???
    She may be smarter than any of your Doctors you mentioned...

    She is just lucky to have an opportunity to do what she loves and enjoys doing every day for 8 hours. MOST of the people end up doing what they really do not like, just to pay the bills...
     
    #38
  39. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,097
    I reckon Golf is probably a better reference point as it is a TV based individual sport without the big weekly stadium crowds of football or baseball etc..

    Tim Dyson finished 2011 at 200 on the PGA money list (ie, just one of the several pro tours around the world, so he is more like the number 400 golfer in the world than the number 200 but PGA figures are easy to find!) and took home 250 000 dollars in prizemoney alone...

    http://espn.go.com/golf/moneylist/_/page/4/year/2011

    see how that compared to whichever poor schmuck was 200 on the ATP last year...
     
    #39
  40. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,926
    Aren't their rival tours in golf unlike in tennis where there is just the one tour with the ATP and its monopoly rights?
     
    #40
  41. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,089
    *Claps* Bravo!!

    This HAS to be the best post I've ever read here. I'm not exactly sure if I know what you're trying to say but it was hilarious nonetheless. Too many great lines in there to quote them all.

    What is ESFP?
     
    #41
  42. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,097
    correct, although 'rival' is probably pushing it, there is a pecking order. ie, if you can play on the PGA tour then you will! If you don't quite make it, then go on the European Tour, then maybe the Asian Tour and so on until you find yourself duking it out at the Dubbo Classic..

    Point is, even those guys struggling along on a lsser tour are still making a living, that's where golf has it sorted out much better than tennis. To pick a pretty random exmaple, there is a player called Berry Henson (USA) who is currently 20th on the order of merit on the Asian golf tour. He has already won almost $50 000 in prizemoney this year. In other words, and no offense to the guy, he's a nobody in terms of the world scene, but he is carving out a modest living. He is currently at a near career high world ranking of 417

    http://www.owgr.com/players/bio.sps?ID=10316

    Compare his earnings to this poor sod

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Lu/D/Denes-Lukacs.aspx

    Less than 20 000 dollars gross after six years on the tour....
     
    #42
  43. 813wilson

    813wilson Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Tampa area
    Slice has it said pretty well. I'd add:

    The PGA and European Tours also retain the "developmental" tours - IE Nationwide and European Challenger. I don't know the detail to qualification but if you finish at X level or above, you are given automatic promotion to the "Tour".

    The organization of the golf tours is far more comprehensive than tennis. To me it seems like restructuring the futures and challenger events could be a good thing. Meaning: players outside of the top, I don't know, 100 are often playing to "get ranking points" for automatic qualifying into bigger tournaments. Why not do it seasonally - each year, the top 96 play the majors and the 1000 levels. Give the top 10(random number) from the challenger level automatics for the following season and the bottom 10 from the prior 96 move down for the season.

    Do this in conjunction with fewer low level tournaments with bigger prize money at each to boost player potenial income.

    just a thought that most cetainly can be improved.
     
    #43
  44. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    12,724
    Location:
    Carrboro, NC
    Thats been my plan, I watch free college or high school sports now, I have cut my admission payments by about 99%.
     
    #44
  45. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,265
    what is the expense for a golfer though? A round of golf or a golf club membership is far more than one for tennis. Swing coach, caddy etc. You can pretty much travel to futures and fish out some public courts and practice with good local players or others in the tournament for free. With golf you'd need to spend tons just to keep it going. Or am i way off here?
     
    #45
  46. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    You are clearly either not of college age yet. You are right: you don't have to be smart. YOu have to have the mindset. Take your doctor and ask him what grades he got in organic chem, physical chem, genetic biology and histochemistry. Ask an engineer or mathematician what they got in calculus, linear algebra, differential equations, electromagnetics and random process theory. They'll likely say A's. Ask each to take the other's classes. You'll get a sheet of "W"s, aka, withdraw. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're smart. It has to do with how your brain views things. Although he never derived any revolutionary theories of physics, I doubt anyone would say that Plato was an idiot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
    #46
  47. jones101

    jones101 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,282
    Location:
    Wales
    If she were paid per winner she may have a point (as she would'nt even have airfare to tournaments).
     
    #47
  48. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    4,210
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    Hats off to you, Sir.
     
    #48
  49. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,356
    It's not quite like that. I've taken organic chemistry, genetics, and evolution. I've also taken differential equations, engineering dynamics, circuits, and nuclear phenomena. I've also taken forensic psychology, philosophical problems of space and time, and a handful of other classes. I've gotten A's in all of them.

    It has a lot to do with how smart you are. There are a lot of engineers who have taken all those chemistry classes (like, say, a chemical engineer for instance) and there are a lot of doctors who have undergraduate degrees in engineering.
     
    #49
  50. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    6,142
    ^^ actually fairly uncommon for engineers to wind up in medicine, usually end up in orthopedics or some other surgical field when it happens.
     
    #50

Share This Page