Wozniacki on pay.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Paul Murphy, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. rossi46

    rossi46 Professional

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    You refer to Mustard's comment being stupid ?? Yet you go on to say that you don't have to be smart to be a doctor !!!

    Speechless.
     
    #51
  2. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    actually she does....she plays the sport and has some idea about sports business.
     
    #52
  3. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    it's called capitalism, if you are the one generating the revenue why shouldn't you be compensated?
     
    #53
  4. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    No, she doesn't. She talks about revenue, long term investment, profit etc. If she thinks that she is right, she should do what I suggested and see how it goes. Then talk, if she feels like it.
     
    #54
  5. FlamEnemY

    FlamEnemY Hall of Fame

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    #55
  6. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    lol just because the public opinion is doctors must be smart doesnt mean they are. and this has nothing to do with mustards comment.

    i know people who are currently studying medicine and most of them are average people who just study enough to get the job done. i know storys of doctors who for example said themselves: i was studying 6hours a day for many months.
    to do that you dont have to be smart. knowledge doesnt refer to intelligence. and school is even more basic its absolutely not true that someone is good at this subject and another one in somethingelse. if your about average you can achieve very good grades just by working hard.
     
    #56
  7. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    You know surgeons are MDs and go through medical school right...?
     
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  8. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    Why cant Wozza be like some of the other female athletes (even actresses and models) and earn more $$$ with a playboy spread?
     
    #58
  9. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Well, apparently he doesn't. Obviously he doesnt know, that medical students cover substantial scientific basics in order to even make it to the 5th semester. Not to mention the fact, that where I am to get a Doctor title you have to do a separate Doctor research, which is scientific research. It requires a lot of analytical thinking and understanding how the things work.
     
    #59
  10. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    starting a tournament isn't relevant to the discussion. it like all business is a matter of capitol vs labor. yes capitol(tour directors, sponsors, etc) should make a profit, but without labor(the players), their capitol is worthless....
     
    #60
  11. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    No, that's the minimum of effort required to succeed for a smart person in medical school, aside from rare prodigies. An unintelligent person would not be able to succeed regardless of effort.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2012
    #61
  12. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    This is really the issue, IMO. It makes no sense that tennis players compare their earnings to those of league team sports. There's just a lot more money generated there. But that doesn't mean they cannot get a bigger % of the money the tournaments do make.
     
    #62
  13. ASantana

    ASantana New User

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    I think this may have been put out of context. She probably meant that tennis players get underpaid compared to other athletes. Like I love baseball and all but they don't deserve half of the salary they get for playing such a non physical sport. Its very technical but barely any strenuous physical activity. But sadly in this world, everybody thinks of tennis as a joke.
     
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  14. 6-2/6-4/6-0

    6-2/6-4/6-0 Semi-Pro

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    Suggests which end you favor... For starters, tour directors and tournament directors are labor as well, not capital (and definitely not capitol). Sponsors and stadiums and things like that are capital.

    Further, without tour directors, tournament directors, etc. Woz could be the best female tennis player in history and she'd not make a dime from it. Thankfully, there are people who are willing to work to put on tournaments and tours and find sponsors to put up money that she can win and tv stations to show the event.

    Everyone has to benefit in a situation like this. That includes tournament directors, federations that own Slams, companies that sponsor athletes, etc.

    Again, if Woz, or any other athlete for that matter, can prove that they should be payed more than they are, then fine. But simply saying, "We should make more money because other people make more money," is preposterous. Professional ice dancers make a fraction of what she does, and they train hard, and they have audiences - should they make millions because Michael Jordan did?

    For comparison - You know what the 200th ranked F1 driver makes? Nothing, there isn't one. Maybe we should be grateful that tennis is such an open sport that people who otherwise wouldn't have a chance to chase the dream in a more restrictive sport.

    Another one - you know how much the 200th best female pro cyclist makes? Nothing, again. She probably has a team that pays for her to travel to races and gives her the equipment she needs, but she works a regular job too in order to be able to race.

    To put these complaints into perspective: the number of people in the world making less than the 200 ranked female pro tennis player is probably larger (by a significant factor I would imagine) than the number making more than her. No one is forcing her to be a tennis player. If she wants to do it, then that is her choice. If she thinks the leaving the WTA tour and becoming a trash collector is a better life choice then that's what she should do.

    Finally, it's not like she (or any other professional athlete in any sport) didn't have any idea what she could expect to earn at any point in her career before she got into it. People have certain skills, aptitudes, propensities, etc. They have the choice to attempt any means of earning a living that they choose. That doesn't mean that they don't flunk out of med school, get fired from the bank that they worked at for 20 years, have their small business fail, or not make the cut to get into the main draw at a slam. There are risks and rewards everywhere. There are choices everywhere.

    Just because you want to make your living as a professional tennis player doesn't mean that you can or that you should be able to. If you're not making money for the sponsors, the tour, the tournaments, then they have no obligation to pay you more. If you are making them the kind of money that demands you be paid more, then stand up for yourself and hope that you can't be replaced by someone who will provide effectively the same benefit but will take less...

    It's the same situation everyone else in the world is in, why should tennis players be any different?
     
    #64
  15. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

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    Great great post.
    Essentially it comes down to this.
    If we pay the players more, this money has to come from somewhere.
    1. Perhaps it comes from those running the tournaments. If so, then there will be fewer tournaments. If the tournaments are paying more and taking IN no more, then the profit margin will be less. Fewer tournaments will result
    2. Perhaps it comes from the fans. I.e. the middle class will fund a higher wage for the million dollar athletes. This is what happend in the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL in the United States.
    3. Perhaps it comes from more advertising revenue. The only way this can happen is a surge in popularity.
     
    #65
  16. 6-2/6-4/6-0

    6-2/6-4/6-0 Semi-Pro

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    If the top players are really worried about lower-ranked up-and-comers who need to make more, they could take a fraction of the prize money at ATP1000 and Major tournaments and distribute it down to Challenger events so that those purses are better. Or, instead of increasing the percentage of payout of a Slam from 30% to 40-45%, take that extra 10-15% and put that in a trust fund to help developing players and increase prize money for low-level tournaments.

    Of course if that's not the real concern I can see how they wouldn't want to do that

    Also keep in mind that for many developing players, their federations pay for some things including coaching, travel subsidies, etc. so the grand total of an athlete's expenses while they are trying to make it (if their federation feels they have a legitimate shot) don't come entirely out of their prize money and sponsorships.
     
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  17. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    point1- capitol isn't just physical or liquid assets,it also refers to, the holders of these assets(if you think of it in the political economic vein). the tour directors on their job work in the capacity of a owner,sometimes they are the owner themselves.
    point2- where did i say the tourney directors don't deserve pay? but they are not the main attractions...the players are...so there is no reason why it can't be a 60-40 after expenses split.
    point3- f1 and cycling isn't apples to apples, this is more like boxing or wrestling.
    point4-the world compared to tennis isn't relevant to this discussion.
    point5- what they expect and they deserve are two different things. if they had a union this would all be mute.
    point6- the world is disorganized so ppl around the world don't fight for their rights, doesn't mean tennis players shouldn't.
     
    #67
  18. fps

    fps Legend

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    She may have been referring to the same thing Murray's been campaigning for, and successfully, where the first round losers in the French Open are going to be paid a lot more this year than last year. And that's as it should be, they are part of the elite 128-man field they should be paid more than they are. It's ridiculous you can be top 100 in the world in this sport and not get the finances that might allow you to, I don't know, get a better coach, or sleep in a comfortable room, things that might allow you to play your best more often.
     
    #68
  19. jack crack

    jack crack New User

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    Isn't it true that ATP player also need to foot their own bill for training facilities, coaches, medical care, travel, hotels, everything? When you play for team sport the team owners carry all that don't they? That's got to be a huge chunk of a players earnings, and for anyone in journeyman status, it must be on the financial edge.

    Also, it seems to me ATP and WTA players have WAY longer seasons that baseball, basketball or football. Little rest between events especially if you are top player who makes it close to a final. It must be tough. I have to say the schedule alone is a killer.
     
    #69
  20. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    This is well above what can be thought of as the minimum effort required of a smart person for success in medical school.
    My understanding is that there is some artistry involved in actually practicing medicine, but that during medical school including most if not all of the out-of-classroom clinicals; that rote memorization and acquisition of well-worn, though malleable, diagnosis and treatment modalities and professional conventions consumes everybody's time. So, it may be on par with learning some intricate waltz but not so difficult that a person of only slightly above average intelligence who possessed superb organization skills and strong habits of personal discipline couldn't handle successfully. Again, this is just what I've read or heard from physicians themselves of which I am friendly with more than a few in my line of work
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
    #70
  21. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    She is one of the most overpayed people in the World, of any profession, of any sort, so she should just shut up.
     
    #71
  22. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    As a physician, I'm inclined to agree with DeShaun here. Most of clinical medicine involves memory and some degree of synthesis but is not the most extraordinarily difficult thing to gain some mastery of. Judgement and maturity are imperative, but I certainly don't think extraordinary intelligence is needed.
     
    #72
  23. jaap deboeck

    jaap deboeck Rookie

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    Does Caro even realize that in the US market few are even watching or follwing ths sport and so ad revenue is not exactly weighing down bank vaults? Most tournamens and even elary slam rounds attract an average of .1 TV ratings, harldy an income magnet.

    Tennis is now a niche sport wherein the top few stars earn most of the prize money and almost all the enndorsement cash. Ms W then shields her endorsement money in Monte Carlo to boot givng themddle finger to her home nation.
     
    #73
  24. LarryZhang

    LarryZhang New User

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    It's a real world...Tough and real...

    Caro should be grateful that she actually found her talent and made it a pretty nice way to make a living, while most of people in this world did not.
     
    #74
  25. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Women tennis players earn some of the top monies among all female athletes.

    Tennis as a professional sport is too top heavy. Earnings gap between the top and bottom players is too wide.
     
    #75
  26. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Not only Wozniacki but any other woman player has no right to critisize the system as they should be paid 10 times less than men
     
    #76
  27. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Really? The men and women who sell tickets deserve what they get on and off the court. That's why they get appearance fees. No offense to the journeymen (women) of the tours - but they don't put rear ends in the seats or get people to change the TV channel.

    Amen. The players in team sports are able to capitalize on their teams/league's histories - a player is his own brand with a very limited shelf life.

    * * * *

    Just like the Stakhovski thread - if the journeymen don't like the pay, quit come join us in the real world. It's not like the rules were changed after they became pros - everyone knows there's one pie (of $$$$) and how it's distributed. It's a meritocracy.
     
    #77

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