Wrestling Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by jamesblakefan#1, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I think it's funny that after all of these years WWE finally found some way to make people sympathetic and have people cheer him more. I think the vulnerability he's shown in losing to Rock and getting his ass whooped by Lesnar has made people like him more. Yeah he lost before but he didn't have the vulnerability that he seems to have now.

    They tried to get people to turn for him with Nexus, but none of those guys were established enough to make people hate them. Say what you what about Lesnar on the mic, but he's been effective in making people boo him and think he's an a-hole.
     
  2. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    The thing with Cena is if you go back to when he had his rap gimmick he was really good. Like legit top guy in the company good. Then they turned him Hulk Hogan and he was still good but it took away alot from him. He just cant generate excitement with his current character very well and thats one of the most important things he does.

    Also felt bad for Beth Phoenix last night. That looked bad when she slipped. Like broken ankle bad. Hope I am wrong about it and its just twisted but ouch either way.
     
  3. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    There's already reports that Beth's injury was a work to make way for Kharma returning and squashing the Bellas before they leave, presumably to take the belt.

    The thing about Cena is that for all the crap he takes - and I agree that his character did get stale around 06-07, but they've done well lately of spicing it up and playing into the boos more - he's the best face the company's had probably since Hogan if you're talking strictly off the screen. Heck even Hogan did backstage politicking, but Cena does none of that and is willing to put over anyone for the good of the company. Add to that the Make a Wish stuff he's done, and the fact that he genuinely loves the biz - that's why it's hard for me to really hate on the guy.
     
  4. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    I just looked it up. The plan was for her to get screwed by the lumberjills losing to a bella so Kharma could win the belt without beating Beth setting up a feud where neither one looks dominant.

    However Beth legit got hurt last night and that might change a few things. Be interesting who they have go against Kharma because Nattie is the only one that is remotely strong looking enough to legit be in there with Kharma.

    I really like the guy as well. Watch the little leading up to Wrestlemania DVD on Netflix of him and you cant hate him. This is why I want to see him to do good. He needs to drop the I am ok that you hate me character and start beating the crap out of people again.

    They tried it with the Nexus angle of him being more aggresive but the nexus had no stars as Barrett wasnt big yet. With this Brock feud they have a great shot at bringing back the Thuganomics Cena and really getting the place to pop.
     
  5. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    There's conflicting reports, but apparently someone from WWE told a site that it was a work, even though Beth's tweeting that it was legit.

    http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2012/0424/552029/beth-phoenix/

    I don't think Thuganomics Cena needs to come back. I'm pretty sure the rapping thing would get old after a while and people would turn on it. Plus though I loved that character, it's pretty dated now and hilariously bad at times.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6FyuRehzE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktlwYsW_-dQ&feature=relmfu

    But yeah, it does seem like they're trying to make his character more serious now.
     
  6. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Thuganomics Cena was what got him over. It wasnt the rapping it was the attitude. The fight and jump on guys for looking at him wrong.Now it seems like he wants to be all nice to everyone. Thats what I was hoping Edge's promo would signal. A turn back to aggressive Cena.

    Also Edge's promo showed how big a hole he left when he retired. He hasnt been around in forever and he cuts a better promo than almost everyone on the roster.

    They need to finish up this Punk vs Jericho feud as well. Its run its course and is now laughable at this point. Its so bad it makes me wanna see Daniel Bryan no selling choke slams again.
     
  7. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Not sure what the deal is with beth. I think the angle was for her to get hurt then she sctually got hurt.

    Not a bad Idea to let her rest while Karma beats all the women down setting up a match that may actually be wrestling amtch and not some girls doing crappy gymnastics together.

    Alot of people dont appreciate Edge, but that guy filled suge a huge void and always did great work.

    I agree the drunk dad angle is terrible. Unless Punks dad is actually Sandman from ECW and he comes down and beats the crap out of punk and him and jericho start pound ing beers and then Austin comes down and stuns everyone and starts pounding beers. Thats the only thing that will save this angle.
     
  8. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Beth is hurt. Sucks as her Kharma, and Nattie are the only 3 that can wrestle out of the divas. Back to gymnastics by failed models we go. Thank you johnny ace for killing the divas division.

    I like your angle for punk/jericho only if it involves Daniel Bryan getting jobbed out to Santino over and over until Yes dies. They can have drunk punk pee on him or something just kill the *******.
     
  9. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Beth's injury was a work but they're keeping her off TV and selling it as legit. Semantics since they're making way for Kharma either way.

    The CM Drunk angle was a better way to sell this than having a ******* match over who's best in the world. At least this has some interest, and for what it's worth I've liked this more than any other angle since Punk's run last summer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  10. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    She legit got hurt. yes they where taking the belt off her so Kharma could win it without beating Beth but Beth got hurt.

    It still sucks. And its not like this wasnt done before. I was just thinking that when i saw an old Rhino video he and James Storm did this in tna. With the broken bottle over Rhinos head everything. It wasnt really that good then and its not that good now.
     
  11. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Everyone knows Punk dont do that, and this fuead witj Jericho wont put put him on the path of drinking.

    I dont know Punks father, and since I dont Im not big on them using him in that way. Like I said if the payoff is later and it has to do with Punks father getting involved one way or antoher I would be fine with that.

    And maybe since my dad struggled with Alcholoism and has been sober for 20+ years it hits home a little too much.

    It just seems like a cheap way to generate heat and I would be surprised if Jericho and Punk were 100% agreed upon working it hat way.
     
  12. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Would be sweet if the Sandman entered the match with his Kendo stick and his theme. Then off to Never Never land, eh?
     
  13. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Although Im tired of that song. I do like Sandman. He doesnt hide who he is.

    I remember hearing one of those old ECW guys saying his funnest matches were the ones with sandman. He said it wa sweet becuase you didnt have to do any moves just beat the crap out of the guy for 10 minutes.

    And yes if Sandman ends up being Punks dad in the story then the fued will obviously be worth it.
     
  14. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    It's not legit. It's a work.
    http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2012/0426/552069/kharma/
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1162015-wwe-news-new-match-announced-for-wwe-extreme-rules

    I'm not going to keep going w/ the 'no it's not/yes it is' so let's just leave it at that and agree to disagree.

    Nothing in wrestling is original. Similar things were done way back in the 90s when Lawler feuded w/ Jake the Snake. Apparently Punk also did similar things while in ROH. Just b/c it's not original doesn't mean it's lesser. You don't like it. I do. Fine.

    It's called suspension of disbelief. I've enjoyed it, Jericho's been gold on the mic and actually made Punk a sypathetic figure rather than a d0uche running around yelling "best in the world" all of the time.

    ----------

    Rey Rey suspended 60 days.
    http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1335461849
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
  15. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Anyone watching extreme rules? Good God John Cena is getting the living hell beat out of him!!! Very MMA-like o_O
     
  16. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Well they fooled everyone with the Karma return. i still think she got hurt as that ankle looked bad when she fell but they did a good job of keeping Layla a surprise. Pretty well done in this day and age.

    Cena got the crap kicked out of him. That was some of the stiffest work I have seen in a long time. Its almost like Brock forgot its a show not a fight. Not sure how having Cena win then letting him take time off helps but they put on a good match.

    Punk put on a good match to. Hopefull that ends that feud as they have milked it dry but a great finish to it.

    And for some odd reason I like Brodus Clay. Maybe its that its a different gimmick than we have seen in a little while. I know we have seen guys come out and dance before but it just hasnt been done in a while and its nice to see they took a monster and did something different with him.
     
  17. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well Brock did say he's an ass kicker. I loved it. That to me was MOTN. It looks like Brock's gonna be using his MMA style rather than 'wrestling', which I'm fine with. Not sure how it'll work against guys much smaller (Punk) or bigger (Big Show) than him. He might kill Punk, lol.
     
  18. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Treat them all like Mikey Whipwreck
     
  19. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Brock wrecking havoc might be the most entertaining thing in WWE in about 10 years. Totally interested in what will happen next.
     
  20. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    YES YES YES Second only to Layla's return and the possible LayCool reunion.
     
  21. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    You beta me to it.

    I guess Michelle has had enough to rest. But she is probably busy taking care of Undertaker and helping him mend.


    I remeber mick Foley talking about certain wrestler and how some the moves hurt, but on camera it looked liek it didnt.m Then other guys were the opposite.

    The He said with Vader it looked liek it hurt, and hurt twice as much as it looked like.

    Maybe that is Brocks new deal.
     
  22. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure if the crowd will cheer Keylocks, Kimuras, or even a Gogoplata unless it is applied by the Divas.
     
  23. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I guess you guys got your wish. Paul Heyman back as Brock's 'legal counsel'.
     
  24. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    that one suprised me a little. Thought he was done with the wrestling industry but I hope he comes back as a manager. he was really good at it.

    I am curious to see if they are building a stable with the guy that took over Rosa's team. I thought I heard them say he had Mason Ryan as well. I would like to see things like survivor series with stables going at it again.
     
  25. adventure

    adventure Banned

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    Paul was an incompetent businessman, but he was and is a great entertainer. It must gall him to bow down to Vinnie Mac, though.
     
  26. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Tonight was the first I saw of the no selling you guys usually talk about w/ Bryan. Punk worked his leg the entire match and Bryan sold it like it was nothing. That match stunk.
     
  27. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    So Cena/Show match...meh.
    Kane/Bryan/Punk...meh.
    Orton suspended...meh.

    Where's Brock to wreck stuff again?
     
  28. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Wrestling has been extremely dry for me lately. In about every aspect. Im about to stop watching.
     
  29. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    thats the junk I complain about. I get that he isnt gonna be dead when they hit each other with crap but why work the leg and he just keeps going. He has alot to learn about selling moves. I dont care how many moves he thinks he can pull off pretty if he cant sell a match he isnt gonna stick around.

    i am close as well. I grew up loving it and its just done. Seriously Johnny ace is the worst thing they have put on in a long time. If any of them think he is over they are kidding themselves. Add on top of that he is involved in everything. thats never a good idea. They should have just killed the story and had Cena win and get rid of the GM gig for him. Its run its course.

    Also they are not pushing any edge at all anymore. I am waiting for them to call each other poopy faces. I get they want younger viewers but what the hell push a tad.
     
  30. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    I'll agree with you the Johhny is around too much. I think if it wasnt oversaturated with him it could work. But it is just stale. They have some guys that can put on good shows. I think Hawkins and Reks need to be doing more than losing to Kingston and Truth. Truth needs to be doing more than tagging with Kingston. Kingston could work with a better partner. Pair him with someone who has more of a power game and they could be fun to watch. Watching Kingston and Truth last night it was clear that Truth is such a better showman than Kingston. Somehting as simple as a drop kick Truth does with so much more flair. kingston has been pushed pretty good but always get a meh.. response.

    This Big Show angle would have worked relly good 8 years ago when he could move some and do stuff. now he labors around the ring and puches poeple.

    Not sure whats going on with the Punk/Bryan/Kane/AJ thing. They are making AJ look like a delusional tramp and it taking away from the work punk could be doing with Byan IMO.
     
  31. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Big Show angle is fine with me. Ok he is huge and hurting people makes enough sense however once again its gonna be super Cena that stops him. Have a run in new guy take him down. Use this to push one of your kids. Use it to put legitimacy in Brodus Clay.

    AJ is just awkward. She is cute and all but at times looks to be about 15. Then she went from being a puppy dog to now wanna be aggresive. Its just awkward.

    Something is wrong with product when I am enjoying old youtube clips more than the current show.
     
  32. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Should see how few wrestlers are at a Smackdown show, maybe 15-20. All interviews and action are backstage, not in the ring. Almost no interaction with the crowd, go figure.
     
  33. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    The SD taping are even worse. At least with an actual live event the crowd is pumped. At a taping everyone is little more subdued.

    I remeber back in the days of the Stone Cold after RAW. Alot of times they did more stuff after the show went off the air then actually happened during RAW.

    He would have Camera men doing spinaroonies, other ca,era guys saying they qwanted to go home. He got on his hands and knees like he was propsing to lillian one day and said.

    "Liilian will you........ Get me another beer"

    He would bring the rock rock out and they would tell some jokes mess with some fans stun some dudes.

    Now Cena will say some stuff when RAW goes off, but its all wholesome and family friendly.
     
  34. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Tough to do stuff after the taping when the kids rush the ring just to touch Cena, Orton, or Sheamus. Tapings are subdued but the number of fireworks used now is unreal.
     
  35. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Yea good point.

    The guys they have could be so good. Even just have a couple guys with the edgier stuff. Not evryone has to be attitude era esque. Lets just give a couple of the guys an edge so the adults can get into more.

    To waste what Punk did last year to get momentum and end up putting him in a love triengle with no acting skills D Bryan, and the Jason Voorhees with flames ripoff Kane. And this girl who makes stupid faces and sometime looks like she belongs on that bring it on movie and other times looks kinda decent is wrong.

    There are too many people involved in that story line. It should be Bryan and Punk let Punk show Bryan how to work a crowd a crowd and develop a story. Then everyone would relize Bryan sucks and his place is having TV Belt matches with kofi that always end with the time limit expriing.
     
  36. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Thats very true. Bryan cant sell a story. thats why he was so good at an indy level but not so great on the big stage. If he doesnt learn how to work a story than he wont last. The Indy guys love him because they like that vanilla midget who has good work rate. The average fans that you need to draw in not gonna get into it.

    thats what I said when i saw edge on for a little. What a hole he left. The guys coming in dont seem to have that something special. Punk was so close to gabbing it and they watered it down so Nash and HHH could have their input. Thats so ****ty.

    Everything in the past hasnt been absolutely amazing and they had their fair share of misses but it seems like there is zero direction besides make sure there is super Cena and Johnny Ace is involved.
     
  37. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Yep, Cena is and will always be involved for the forseable future.

    It doesnt help when guys keep getting hurt (barrett) or suspended (Truth, Orton). Truth and Miz seemed like they were working well together. Then truth got suspended and they just threw both of those guys out of the picture.
     
  38. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Barretts injury really set them back. He can carry a feud and make a show interesting when he is on. He carried the Nexus story line which was one of their better things of the last few years.

    Orton never really feels big time to me. Maybe its his lame tweaking out when he hits the diamond cutter. I liked the I am insane and hurt people gig he had but everything else he has done feels blah.

    Miz is the favorite whipping boy it seems. guy went from main eventing Wrestlemania to jobbing to Brodus Clay. Thats a fall and a big one.
     
  39. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Please dont call what Orton does a cutter. I dont what he does he sorta just jumps up in the air and let the other guy do all the work. If Owen Hart were still around he would just stand there and let Orton fall on his back. Owen would always do crap like that at house shows. Would really make guys look dumb if they didnt have talent.

    I'm not sure what happened with Miz, I wonder if he pulled a Morrison and tried to go to bat for his girlfriend (Maryse) and got shafted. Of course was better than morrison would ever dream of and Maryse doesnt seem like as big of a 8itch as Melina so he still has a job.
     
  40. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Maryse left on her own. Also Miz is starring in Marine 3 so its obvious WWE isn't fully down on him. I'll bet he will be champ again by years end. Remember where punk was this time last year before his huge push. Things change quickly.
     
  41. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Maybe, maybe not. Maybe she just said that to not totally seal the door for the future. For Miz to go from where he was to where is at now something had to have happened.

    He is in Marine 3 just becuase Orton could not do it because he was in the Marines deserted and got booted. WWE Films decided to remove from the project after prior military rightfully got involved.

    Stone cold was supposed be the lead in The Marine 1, but took his agents advice and turned the part down. Obvioulsy in retrospect he says that was a dumb move.

    Wasnt Dibiase in Marine 2? They (WWE) must be real high on him. Being in the Marine doesnt mean you get pushed into title contention.

    Miz had the WWE championship, the main belt of the company and almost went off the card completlety not even a year later. I cant remember any champ that fell so hard so fast. Punk had never won the WWE championship. The dont let just anyone win that one like they do with the HW Belt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  42. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    Maryse had a serious abdominal injury, that's why she left. Miz just ran out of steam. Jericho went through the same stuff where he'd be world champ then jobbing to Bourne a few months later. It happens.
     
  43. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    they blamed Miz for alot of ratings issues that he had nothing to do with. He became the whipping boy. If you believe the dirt ***** which I dont think I really do everyone cant stand the guy and doesnt wanna work with him so he isnt getting a decent push anymore. Not sure I buy that because whether I cared about the guy or not if he made everyone money I would work with him and I kinda think many wrestlers would feel that way. He is no Michaels in the backstage bs so I dont really believe it.
     
  44. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    I know but it just seems odd. They dont have many guys that are sa popular as the Miz was and they just destroyed it. Jericho felt Bourne hasd a future so he jobbed. But as long as Jericho is around he is atleast involved.
     
  45. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    I just dont get why push the guy hard and try to make him a face of your company only to bury him within a year. They put alot of time into making him something even if they never put him over Cena clean. I kinda saw the writing on the wall for this when they had the I quit match where Miz and Alex Riley almost killed Cena and still lost in like 5 secs when Cena got up. Just kills momentum of a wrestler to go out like that.
     
  46. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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  47. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Didnt watch it last night, but poeple seem to be pretty stoked about Vader coming back squasing Slater.

    Vader was a very large agile guy that put on good work. Apparently he got buried in WWE by Shawn and the clique.

    He always had sweet music though. So much so on vacation my seniro year of high school we rented this house at the ocean they had these wooden utesils which were like three feet tall haingin on the wall. My buddy grabed one and looked at me yelled.

    "Its Time
    Its Time
    Its BIG SPOON TIME"

    and ran in the other room and whacked my buddy in the head with it. Still one of the funniest things I have witnessed in person.
     
  48. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    i watched it last night and ya it still feels like no idea what they are doing. Guys are all over. Kofi gets squashed by the big show in a cage for no reason. Why that was a cage match I have no idea.

    anyone else laugh hard when the Big show says I never got to be a giant when in WCW he was literally The Giant?
     
  49. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    14,317
    Vader was huge in WCW. Btw, how did Alberto Del Rio get injured?
     
  50. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    603
    Location:
    Havre de Grace, MD
    That is pretty funny.

    I remember when he was "The Giant" poeple were saying he was Andres son and stupid stuff liek that.

    But he sued to fly ioff the ropes and drop kick dudes at 7ft tall. He was actually pretty amazing in WCW. Then he got lethargic and gained weight. He has slimmed down a little from where he was like 5-7 years ago though. AT least it looks that way.
     

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